Abortion and the Underclass

[Acriku]

So your specific qualm with abortion is that it takes tax payers' money to perform it?

[gunner154]

Wrong. He is implying that it makes no sense to spend so much money on something when alternatives could save you so much. You can look at it as a utilitarian viewpoint.

[GUNWOUNDS]

So your specific qualm with abortion is that it takes tax payers' money to perform it?

That.... and the high percentage of casual usuage of it ... i am just saying lets put some reasonable restrictions on it.

[Acriku]

Wrong. He is implying that it makes no sense to spend so much money on something when alternatives could save you so much. You can look at it as a utilitarian viewpoint.

It wouldn't be a problem for him specifically if it didn't take tax payers' money to perform it (which he pays, like we all do). If it didn't take tax payers' money to perform it, then he has no business complaining how other people spend their money. Nor does he have the business to suggest infringing their right to spend their money that way.

That.... and the high percentage of causal usuage of it ... i am just saying lets put some reasonable restrictions on it.  So far the only restriction seems to be that you can abort a 9 month old fetus... but even democrats are pushing for that.  For christ's sake.

Well, then we go back to what was said before, sex education and what could be done to prevent the process from happening (pills, condoms, etc). But some people are against pills and such, like President Bush. As far as restrictions, what would you say is reasonable?

[gunner154]

It wouldn't be a problem for him specifically if it didn't take tax payers' money to perform it (which he pays, like we all do). If it didn't take tax payers' money to perform it, then he has no business complaining how other people spend their money. Nor does he have the business to suggest infringing their right to spend their money that way.

Well, then we go back to what was said before, sex education and what could be done to prevent the process from happening (pills, condoms, etc). But some people are against pills and such, like President Bush. As far as restrictions, what would you say is reasonable?

It's a passing remark. No problem for him to leave out HIS tax money and just talk about taxpayers' money in general. That's how I interpret it at least.

Sex education has been present for a good period of time, but fact is it's not working. You DO see the numbers rising, do you?

[GUNWOUNDS]

WE can discuss reasonable restrictions on abortions tomorrow... i am gonna get some sleep... i think that if we put reasonable restrictions on abortion they way we put reasonable restrictions on everything else we would have women and men thinking a bit more about the consequences instead of "oh no prob i can just get an abortion for $400

[nemafakei]

Impressive list. How many are actually properly geared to support mothers?

  Alliance for Childhood - Some kind of lobby/awareness group.

  American Academy of Pediatrics - if you can afford one. Peripheral.

  American Council of Obstetricians Gynecologists - if you can afford one. Hell, list the police. They protect the child's security.

  American Diabetes Association - Raising diabetes awareness - important, but still a very marginal issue for poor parents

  American Dietetic Association - Raising diabetes awareness - important, but still a very marginal issue for poor parents

  American Public Health Association - Lobby group working "through education and advocacy"

  America's Second Harvest - Aha! this one's a good one. Let's hope it's effective.

  American Commodity Distribution Association - Lobby group.

  American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees(AFSCME) - Lobby Group

  American Friends Service Committee - Lobby group...

I'm not looking every one of these up on the net, but you really need to be a little more cynical.

[stefanhendriks]

I do agree that people should not become lazy because they can abort everytime they like. Yet, it gets hard to prove you are raped... as you can even be raped by

[exatreide]

actually you got it backwards.... i think half of marriages fail BECAUSE people dont wait.

[gunner154]

He's talking about getting at the root of the problem. You CAN afford to spend less on welfare system if you can put an end to unwanted births.

[stefanhendriks]

you don't get pregnant because you want to, and don't want a child. Abortion itself is not a pretty way; instead you will rather prefer to use conception.

So, those who get pregnant and choose for abortion are due:

- mistake

- crime

- religion (due family, but don't want it..., etc)

[TMA_1]

another aspect that I think was talked about already, though I havent read it all the way through, is that tax payers are paying for abortions, and it seems that it is that way in many countries.

Whether some like it or not, people from many religions disagree with abortion. From buddhism, to islam. There are people in these faiths that may see it differently, but there is a substantial minority that would disagree with the practice. NOw imagine the fact that they are helping to fund abortions, though it is morally wrong in their faith. This is wrong, and governments should not impose taxes that hinder religious morals and practices of it's citizens. Why dont people see this?

[nemafakei]

Yes but in the same vein, you could argue that given that some religions are against murder, state-funded death penalties, and even state-funded armies should be illegal.

[Acriku]

This link does a good job of explaining who pays for abortions. It says :

Some 74% of women pay for abortions with their own money; 13% of abortions are covered by Medicaid, and 13% are billed directly to private insurance. Some women who pay for the procedure themselves may receive insurance reimbursement later. [66]

As far as medicaid goes:

Does the U.S. government help poor women who need abortions pay for them?

    Congress has barred the use of federal Medicaid funds to pay for abortions, except when the woman's life would be endangered by a full-term pregnancy, or in cases of rape or incest. However, as of March 2004, 17 states used their own funds to subsidize abortion for poor women. [67]

If you don't want your state to pay whatever percentage for abortion, elect a governor to stop it. It should be up to the states, anyway.

[Acriku]

I've found links saying that the rate of abortion has been decreasing since the 90s. Are there any statistics showing the rate now?

[Andrew]

As for the rate of abortions right "now", I don't think there really are any good figures (just estimates).

Latest from StatsCan, indicate that abortion has decreased 1% from 2001 to 2002.

From what I saw on other sites, abortions have reduced since the early 1990s in USA.

Induced abortion statistics from StatsCan has data of abortions from ~1970-2002.

Heres an image of one of the many data selections that can be made.

EDIT

Found

Table 106-9005: Induced abortions, by area of report and type of facility performing the abortion, Canada, provinces and territories, annual (Number)

Seems that Canadians are more likely to get their abortions done in Canada than the States than they used to.