Dune 2 C&C-styled clone

[MrFlibble]

Stefan, you once mentioned that, apart from D2TM, you'd like to create a C&C-styled Dune 2 clone - same graphics, missions, but higher resolution, skirmish options, etc. etc. - like the early version of D2TM (v.092), but more neat (and complete). So, I've created a sketch (an edited Dune Legacy screenshot) that shows a possible ingame UI design.

[Timenn]

I'm quite a fan of the C&C styled sidebar. I think it has proved to be one of the most efficient ways to control your constructions and trainings in any RTS.

However, it takes away the benefit you can have of building multiple units at once, when having multiple factories.

But I doubt that there isn't a solution for this.

A possible solution:

For every different type of building, the units it can produce are shown in the sidebar to be grouped together in some way (they have a red border around it, or so)

Per unit group there will be horizontal arrows, and if you click them you can scroll through all buildings of that same type, without having to select them on the tactical view, and thus you can give seperate build queues to different buildings, while only working at the sidebar, and not selecting anything in the tactical view.

Example:

You have 3 Light Factories, and you want to build 3 x 5 Trikes. You queue up 5 Trikes in the sidebar, and you press the left arrow button for the Light Factory Unit group. Now an empty build queue is shown. Start the next queue of 5 Trikes, and press the arrow again. Now start the queue for 5 Trikes with this group. Now you would be building 15 Trikes in total, at 3 different factories.

2 extra's would be:

1) You can also select a total view in the sidebar, where you can the total production of that unit group.

2) The building which production group you have selected in the sidebar, is highlighted on the tactical view and/or radar.

[MrFlibble]

I thought af accessing all one-type production facilities via sidebar too. That's quite a good idea, to my point. However, as there are many different possibilities of developing Dune 2 gameplay and interface (basically divided into C&C-style and Warcraft-style), let's see what Stefan says on the subject :)

BTW, check this thread for some relaed work on duneish C&C-style interface.

[nemafakei]

This is my next update for Stefan, plus my idea for an interface. It could go either at top or at the bottom of the screen.

Essentially, the selected unit/structure is displayed in the panel bottom left, along with three main commands. Clicking and releasing on the command would have the unit/structure perform that command. Clicking and holding on the command would replace the four boxes with other similar commands (though the box clicked would remain the same so as to allow normal click-release).

The bottom box (when no other box is clicked) displays the unit's current action or alternatively, can be used for left/right buttons for the extra panels.

(For multiple units, one unit is selected as 'leader', and its status displayed in the fourth box; the commands are given to all units, each of whom occupy a panel.)

Factories display possible products to be ordered, Radar Outposts display numbers of units belonging to each house visible (similar to DII) - but we'd need Fremen/Sardaukar/etc icons.

The larger buttons on the ornate bar could include: Mentat, Options, World Map, and perhaps buttons for macromanaging factories and/or air units.

'Mentat Mode' could give info on units ingame (speed, armaments, purpose, armour) rather than through a separate screen, replacing the commands and the secondary panels.

This would give a playable area of 800 by 568, which is not quite as wide as 16:9 widescreen.

[attachment archived by Gobalopper]

[stefanhendriks]

So many ideas, so little time.

I love the design. Simple, yet effective. Actually going back to the roots is not even that bad at all. There are so many ideas and so many things i'd love to do, but its huge, too big, to many. I have to decide what to do. Keep it simple, or get on with D2TM as planned now. Even the roadmap does not do all i intented. Perhaps i want too much.

I see there is quite some animo for a 'simple remake'. I have to think about this, i cannot do 2 projects at a time. And i am busy with all sorts of things. ( One of them is getting on my own, i need to find a place to stay though).. I'd like to know how the team thinks about 'abandoning d2tm' and do a 'dune 2 clone only' (like mrFibble described best: "to create a C&C-styled Dune 2 clone - same graphics, missions, but higher resolution, skirmish options,")...

The great advantage is, there are a lot of upgraded gfx here, and that makes it a lot easier for me to work with. Besides that, i can use the D2TM current code, and just convert it (once again) for proper usage...

[DuneFan]

Yep i think just a simple dune 2 clone will be fantastic and then you could add stuff later on.

From version to version 1.0 2.0 and 3.0 and ect.....

IF you do this i am prettty shure you will have a full playable version under a years!!!

[nemafakei]

I'd like to know how the game engine accesses data on unit/structure/weapon/etc properties. Is it stored in a way which is easy for you to modify (i.e. before compiling, given the source code)? If so, a DII mode (units and so forth similar to DII) and a D2TM mode (new units like spotters, sandcrawlers, et. al.) would be feasible, no?

I think with the global/regional gameplay working, D2TM is worth pursuing as an exercise in innovation.

DII clones already exist. People really desperate for the DII feel can download dosbox and play it. But only D2TM wil make use of all the new ideas we have - let's not just think 'what would DII look like if produced 5 years later'. That was D2k. Let's think 'What would we really like a dune game to do?'

And you know, I'm wondering if we should introduce shields.

[MrFlibble]

And you know, I'm wondering if we should introduce shields.

Do you mean shields in the 'book' sense or in the 'EBFD' sense? Cause in the 'book' sense, the usage of shields was what made all those tanks and bullet weapons useless stuff, bringing back melee weapons ???

[stefanhendriks]

I think i have to think about this. I just feel its so big, but by using this thing piece by piece together, we could get D2TM as intented :)

Just atm, its pretty tough, too many things going on :)

[Timenn]

I understand what Nema is saying, that only making a Dune II clone would ruin all new ideas there are for new units, new scenario's and even a whole new campaign setup. Perhaps this is something that could work:

Start out with making a Dune II clone, but instead of sticking to the Dune II resources as fanatics, every good and new idea which can be implemented to a certain level will be build into it.

So let's say the original Dune II missions can be played. Then someone brings in the idea of being able to summon reinforcements when the need arises. Depending on the amount of regions you controls, you get a certain number of reinforcements. And thus you have inserted the first non-Dune II element in the game, and the first step towards D2TM. This way there isn't a whole lot of work in front of you that needs to be completed before you can play the D2TM element. But instead, the D2TM mode is implemented step by step. With each step it goes one step further away from tradition, and one step closer to D2TM. This will also give the fun of inventing something, and being able to play it not so far into the future.

And maybe you want to put a choice somewhere in the game, that a player can decides whether he/she wants to have the additional D2TM features or not (however, they are recommended)

The description might be a little vague, but it's 1:35 here, and this mouse touchpad is annoying like hell.

[Dunenewt]

Ok, I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before but how about this.  In the sidebar, each building capable of building units is displayed in the form of a tab.  If you have more than one, say, factory, a drop down menu over factories would be available, showing Factory 1, Factory 2, etc.  When you click on that building, you can see what you can build, and if new units are available then that tab would flash a different colour.

[Gilneas]

If the game is going to stay single player, why not use the building screens of Dune 2, I thought those were nice. Plus you don't need a side bar, except for radar.

If multiplayer, I think Dunenewt's idea is pretty good.

Especially with the usual tab-switching shortcut keys ALT+#tab

[Dunenewt]

I just think that then you would still be able to build units similtaneously from different factories/barracks.

[nemafakei]

Dunenewt's idea has suggested something else to me - controlling factories from other regions. Perhaps there should be a shortcut and mentat option for selecting 'all inactive factories', and have them build units you specify on the sidebar.