The PSP

[Dragoon Knight]

You're not telling the whole story, though, EWS.

Fact: DS can play movies, but only with an adapter meant for the GBA, and at extra cost, because it doesn't come as standard.

Fact: DS can play multiplayer games with only one cartridge, as can the PSP with only one UMD.

Fact: The PSP is already like a palmtop, with integrated WiFi Internet Access and browser, and optional keyboard.

You have to flesh out each of your points.  Aside from the touchpad, microphone and battery life, the DS can't come close to being as good overall as the PSP.  You say it wasn't designed to be direct competition for the PSP, but it has become competition nonetheless.  All I'm trying to do is point out that Sony have produced a better console, based on arguments concerning complete facts.

And Spectral Paladin, if we're not considering quality as part of the argument, then so be it.  But let's consider cost and diversity; how much do you think these cartridges will cost?  How many movies do you think will be converted to that format?  I sure as hell never heard about it for the GBA.  And yes, it is a fact that losing the stylus is easy.  It's small, grey and plastic.  Nintendo know it's easy to lose, which is why they sell more, as you have both already pointed out.

[EWS]

Chris man your getting confused again.

[Dragoon Knight]

I'm not getting confused, EWS; you just don't seem to be understanding my arguments.  Yes, I asked for only facts, but I assumed that you would use complete ones.  For example, it's true that meningitis will give you a nasty rash... but if you're looking for a holistic appraisal of something, that's hardly an adequate description.  So let's compare some real facts.

Fact: The PSP requires no extra peripherals / tools to play any of its games to their full extent.

Fact: The DS requires a stylus / thumb-pad to play some of its games to their full extent.

Now, you must concede that it is easier to lose peripherals / tools that actually exist, and thus must concede that the stylus (or indeed, the thumb-pad) is easy to lose, in the context we are discussing.  Please tell me you understand this concept, as I don't think I can be any clearer.  Socratic Method FTW.

Yes, the PSP's screen is easy to scratch.  The DS doesn't have this problem, since its screens are protected by adamantium casing (or whatever the DS is made of :P).  Score one for Nintendo.  But unless you go at the PSP with a cheese-grater, it's not going to hinder its performance.  And if you're going to use statements like "many PSPs have so many problems with them", please back them up with statistics or links to reviews saying so.  I asked Spectral Paladin for some figures a while back, and he's yet to produce them.

Yes, the PSP can do the game sharing to the same extent as the DS can.  In that aspect, they are equal.  I await your next barrage of "no you're wrong"'s. :)

And Spectral Paladin... let me get this straight.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that for the DS to play movies, you have to save downloaded / ripped video to the card?  Or is this an option, and there are retail movies as well?  Please clarify, as I can find out very little about the DS movie player.  All that appears when I search for it is an adapter for the GBA one.

Oh, and please leave personal comments out of this.  There was no need to include the "idiot" part of the quote, or insinuate that I lose important things because I think I might lose a small grey bit of plastic.

[erjin999]

Saying that losing your stylus makes you an idiot is not a fact.

[jeff2429]

Well if you can say that if you lose the stylus thingy, your an idiot, then I can say if you think the DS is better then the PSP, your an idiot.

[erjin999]

Yay, lets all present opinions as facts ! Then this discussion can head downwards faster then...something.

[erjin999]

Well, in order to lose the stylus when you can so easily store it safely, you must be lacking something - that's a fact.

Not a fact. But yeah, its your own comment. ok. Lets move on then.

[Umma Kynes]

I'm not even going to read the rest; I got about halfway.

Nintendo is better because they belive in this mantra:

Game systems should ONLY be used to play games.

If you want to watch DVD's, get a player.

If you want to listen to music, turn on the radio.

If you want a PSP, get a life.  ;D

[Dante]

I tend to agree with most of that sentiment. If I were to buy a new portable device thingy (and I'm not, because the GBA:SP is more than enough for me right now), then I don't think I'd care about watching movies or playing music. I've got a computer for that, and I don't like doing either of those things when I'm on the move anyway. When buying something for games, I'll use it for games. All other considerations are surplus to requirements.

As far as I gather then, the DS would be better for my kind of attitude. Sure, you have to get additions to do the stuff that the PSP can do, but if you don't want the additions then the cheaper price is all the more attractive. And the DS has a nicer weight balance and shape as well. Heh.

But really I should be staying out of this argument, since I doubt that I'll be buying either. Have fun guys.

[Dragoon Knight]

Umma, please only post if you're going to be constructive.  At least have an argument that stands up to debate, and hasn't already been discussed.  Read the other half of this thread.

Spectral Paladin; just because someone loses a small, grey bit of plastic, does not make them an idiot.  It does not make them prone to losing bigger things, either.  A simple yes or no answer to this question will suffice: is it true that it is easier to lose tools / peripherals that actually exist, as opposed to ones that don't?

I bought the PSP because I want more for my money, without the hassle of having to buy loads of extras or worrying about losing some fiddly little attachments.  Other than the touch screen, microphone and slightly larger battery life, I can't see any reason why I would want to buy a DS.  None of the features it has appeal to me, whereas I have always liked Sony; the hardware they produce and the games they license.

I do not appreciate being told that my friend is an idiot, nor do I feel being told to "get a life" is appropriate.  Either present new arguments for the DS being 'better' than the PSP, or concede that it is a better console overall, simply because of the better quality features that come as standard.  Or, you could just stop arguing about it, and use this thread to discuss the PSP, as it was originally intended.  Any more 'name calling', intelligence-questioning or anything else that counts as a flame, and I'll just lock the thread.  I really thought that FED2k posters would be more mature about this...

[Dragoon Knight]

Since you seem incapable of answering a simple question in the way I asked, I'll do it for you.  Yes, it is easier to lose attachments that actually exist, as opposed to those that don't.  Therefore, the DS has a disadvantage when compared to the PSP, as it has accessories that can be lost, thus hindering gameplay.  It doesn't matter if you think someone who does that is less intelligent than you; keep your derogatory comments to yourself and face facts.

As for the firmware upgrade issue... it isn't one.  All games that require a newer version of the software come with the upgrade packaged on the UMD, in the same way that new games for the PC come with the latest version of DirectX.  And stopping piracy is a good, thing, if you didn't notice.

[erjin999]

I have also read about this homebrew apps thing on the PSP, and heard how Sony were against it. I read this in the gaurdian a short while ago, and was suprised at their attitude. I got the impression from the article that the homebrew apps were not used to create/use illegal games, but improve the console, adding things that Sony did have.

Thinking back, it may have mentioned being able to play older games, emulated. Perhaps thats why Sony might not want to have homebrew apps, in case everyone plays all the old time classics, and dont buy their nice neww and considerably more expensive games.

Either way, I guess it is their right to put out upgrades to the firmware, as I would view it your right to not upgrade.

[erjin999]

I agree with your last line. That is expected, and everyone knows it, but what can you do or say ? "I want to run my own apps on this so dont block me in your upgraded firmware" ? I bet they have something about not running unauthorised apps in some agreement you agree to by opening the PS or something. Ether way, even if they dont, they are not going to change their stance becuase you want them to...Opinions.

[Dragoon Knight]

I'll ask you once again to keep personal comments to yourself, Spectral Paladin.  If you want to stop arguing the accessories point, then fine.  But you haven't provided a decent argument, and that is both opinion and fact.

Moving on, though, I'm actually posting this using my PSP.  Can your DS do that?

[Dragoon Knight]

It took me 5 minutes to make that post; I was doing other things at the same time.  Among them were listening to music (on my PSP), looking at Webcomics (on my PC, because I can't browse 2 pages at once on my PSP) and drinking Irn-Bru.

I like that idea; a message that pops up if you try to access the internet with a DS... "Sorry, go buy a mobile that can do it instead." ::)

There is an accessories point; you just don't want to face certain facts.  And I don't like the Prince of Persia games all that much, so I'm not really able to comment. :)

[erjin999]

Hey ! My Palm T3 does a lot of what you said, shall we start to consider that and its merits ? :P

Serious thought though, do you guys think they will make the GPS systems compatible with these new powerful devices (DS, PSP) ?

[Dragoon Knight]

Correct; they have to connect with a WiFi network.  However, your argument about phones being able to do this anyway is potentially invalid, Spectral Paladin.  I work for Vodafone, and they have a service called Mobile Connect.  It allows wireless internet access through a WiFi card that connects directly to the Vodafone network.  These cards are treated just like mobiles, except purely GPRS entities.

Like you said, Erjin, it won't be long before Sony (and indeed, Nintendo) start to offer WiFi Access in a similar manner, possibly using the services of a company such as Vodafone.  Don't bother talking about cost, as it's expensive enough on mobiles as it is.  And GPRS is capable of supporting 768Kbps connections, it's just never been used to that extent.

In this case, too, the PSP will win.  While the DS will have the advantage of a touchpad as a mouse, the small screen will be comparitively useless when faced with the PSP's widescreen, hi-res display.  I've already used the PSP for browsing several sites, and it just seems to come naturally.  The display is magnificent; pictures crystal clear and everything working as it normally does.  With several sites out there spawning PSP specialised web-content, there's no real question about which console is favoured in this area.

[EWS]

This argument should be focusing on the games of the consoles.  I bought my DS because I wanted to play games on it, not because I wanted to do all these other things.

When it comes down to gameing, I firmly believe that the DS has the better games.  The scope of the DS seems to allow for better, more imaginative games (much like the Revolution) and I think that is where the DS will win.

The PSP has more features, true it does.  The DS has more innovation, true.  But why do they have to compete against each other, both should be able to co-exist as they both offer different things - PSP offering a multimedia approach (at a higher cost, but a justified higher cost) and the DS offering a gaming approach (at a justified lower approach).  Time will only tell to see which one (if any) comes out as the market leader.  The only thing I am worried about is whether something I called the Sony Syndrome will happen - ie. lots of poor quality, ultimatly crap games will appear for the PSP against the small amount of games, but on average of a higher quality, coming out for the DS.  It happened on the PS vs N64 and again with the PS2 vs GC.  Taking a look at the games that are out at the moment, it seems that the trend is following.

[EWS]

No, for coming with an in built Movie player, mp3 player, web browser and all that other gumph I think the price is sort of justifiable.  Basically it is a multimedia device (much like a palmtop) and for something that would come with all that would cost somewhere near that price region.

[EWS]

A standalone MP3 player would set you back a bit.  A standalone movie player would set you back a wee bit as well.  I wasn't meaning in the terms of the PSP, I was meaning if you had to pay for them seperatly.  And you get a memory stick with the PSP anyway.  Plus they are releasing a PSP with a HDD next year.

[EWS]

Was that comment aimed at me Spectral?  I am not a sony victum.  And when you say that the N64 offered the best graphics at that time, you're actually wrong.  It was the Dreamcast, that offered graphics at that time that were very good.  Infact, I am still amazed at the graphics that mine can come out with.

I agree that the PSP's graphics are not the be all and end all, infact it is quite the opposite.  A game that I actually would go back to would interest me more than a game that look realistic.

Anyway, I bought a DS and haven't bought a PSP.

[Kiyouta]

PSP outsold

Owned. Literally.

[Dragoon Knight]

I resented it when I was called a PSP fanboy.  I posted opinion to begin with, then facts, then a mix of both.  I got tired of arguing about attachments, paying for what you get, quality, etc. because people either outright disagreed or refused to accept some kind of superiority.

Now, however, this entire thread is turning into a "Look How Much Nintendo Are Doing That's Better Than Sony, Look Look LOOK!!" thread.  I don't think I'm the fanboy, here.  If you want to talk about the DS, please make another thread to do so.  Stop trying to belittle the PSP by throwing figures about like they mean something - of course the DS is going to out-sell the PSP; it's cheaper by almost half!  I'm probably going to buy a blue one, just because I can afford it!

And for someone who used the argument "who would want to watch movies on journeys", I ask you this - who would want to play multiplayer games, while eating, in a select few fast food restaurants?  The answer?  Plenty of people would, but not me.  This is where opinion comes into it again - I bought the PSP because I think it's a better console.  In my opinion, it is, and it has the facts to back it up as well.  So does the PSP.  But you don't see me going around listing every single 'victory' or 'loss'.  So please, keep the Nintendo Fanboy stuff to yourself, Spectral Paladin; it looks like the pot was calling the kettle black.

[Dragoon Knight]

Indeed I did; I asked you on Page 1, when the figures said exactly the contrary to what your link does now.  Convenient that you post it now.

And this thread is to discuss the PSP; while this includes comparing it to the DS, it does not include the fanboy attitude you are expressing here.  If I had the time or inclination to go around digging up every article regarding PSP Fanboy-ism, I could counter-act all of your 'figures' digit for digit.  Sales go up and sales go down; try posting a whole view of the article, rather than just summing it up in two words.  It's critical of the DS as well, and by the wording of it, when the PSP starts making more varied games, the DS will start to lose that innovative edge.

[Dragoon Knight]

You calling me a fanboy didn't "hurt my feelings", as you put it.  It did, however, annoy me.  For some time now, I've been saying that the PSP is better overall, while the DS is much more innovative and gaming-focused.  Nintendo have always been like that; providing for all the family, while trying to reach new levels of interactivity.  Take a look at the Revolution's controller, and you can see what I mean.

Microsoft are all power; the best graphics, the best online community, the biggest box, the biggest number on their console... they're all about catering to the "hard-core" gamers out there, with some appeal to beginners with their "core system", which is laughable.

Sony are the intermediary, balancing power and playability.  Though I don't have the article to hand, I think EWS can back me up in saying that the PlayStation controller was voted the favourite of its time.  The PlayStation outright owned the Dreamcast and the N64 in terms of games and playablity, and it even outsold the Gamecube for a time.  Sony have always managed to maintain a balance between the two extremes.

Now, Nintendo are zerging the marketplace with consoles.  The DS is good; I want one, just because it's available in blue, and some games sound good.  I wanted the PSP as soon as I heard about it, because it looked so damned cool, and had games I was instantly interested in.  Nintendo seem to have a habit of simply recycling old games for a new console.  You know when the Revolution comes out, there's going to be the staple Mario, Mario Kart, Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, F-Zero, etc. etc.

Nintendo have just gone into overdrive; "DS, Micro, Revolution, Advance2... keep 'em coming, boys!!"

Now take Sony; their FIRST handheld console, going against the handheld kings.  People know and trust Nintendo.  Sony release the PSP... it initially does better than the DS.  Then Nintendo fire off all of their news events (NEW COLOURS!!!  POK