Dune 2000 bugs

[Reactor]

I'm curious what do you think 'bout these bugs.

- The "Westwood-effect". Tanks, quads, launchers etc. can't seriously damage infantry anymore. In Dune 2, this was far better. I don't know why Westwood made such thing that tank shoots,rockets and other armor-piercing weapons can't kill infantry quickly anymore. In real, a tank would kill a footman in one shot (not to mention the Devastator). I encountered this at Red Alert,too.

- Worms cannot be selected, and cannot be targeted by original methods. This was also better in Dune 2.

- Engineers cannot instant-repair structures. This was better in Red Alert.

- There is no "entry to ice" tile block. It would be great to battle on the polar ice cap if we could enter on it. If they figured out the Ice tileset,they really should have made a way to go up there :)

- I miss the "upgradement" crates (unit speed, unit armor, unit firepower).

- You can't gain Airstrike and Death Hand from a crate. This is not a great bug, it would be just good to acquire some superweapons from crates.

- You can't sell an unit by leading it to the Repair pad,and select the "Sell" icon.

- No APCs.

Any opinions regarding to these bugs? I'm curious.

[tag]

>>>armor-piercing weapons can't kill infantry quickly<<<

You have to bear in mind that Westwood made its figures with the intention that they be -abstract-.  By this I mean that they are not intended to be realistic figures of firepower but are also intended to take into account world factors.

For example, in Dune2000 I think it takes a rifleman about 10 bursts to kill another rifleman.  At three rounds a burst that's 30 rounds.  Now we all know a human being can be killed with -far- fewer than thirty rounds, with good aim even a single shot is enough to be lethal; however, when you take into the account that a person being shot at will naturally take action to protect himself such as moving or taking whatever cover is available, the fact that that a soldier would probably be armoured thus decreasing his body's vulnerability, and the fact that in the heat of battle the shooter's aim might not be 100% accurate, 30 rounds all of a sudden becomes a much more realistic figure.

Rather than developing a monstrous engine to simulate all of the aforementioned factors, Westwood and IG simply decided to combine them all into statistical probabilities.  Rather than trying to calculate every individual defender's ability to protect himself and every individual shooter's aim and all of the other conditions that might affect a firefight, they determined the -average- ability for one individual weapon type to inflict damage upon one individual armour type and applied those values to -all- of the units on the field that utilise that weapon or armour.  Given the technology of the time, this allows for the most efficient application of "realism" to the amount of computing power required.

So, yes, you're correct when you state that a missile or tank round could potentially kill a soldier with a single shot; however, in spite of this, if you look at casualty reports from any modern engaguement you will find that the number resulting from wounds inflicted by armour-piercing weapons to be fewer than those caused by small arms, explosives and other "anti-personnel" weapons.  Additionally, of those caused by armour-piercing weapons, more will have been the result of shrapnel rather than direct hits.

In short, don't confuse raw firepower with actual effectiveness.

--Bashar

[Reactor]

Yeah, you're right :) This was a good (but a bit unrealistic) idea of Westwood's. I mean...it's good that you get good use of light infantrymen or trikes at later stages (e.g. each unit has advantages and disadvantages). Remember the good old Dune 2? At mission 8 or 9, you would never build Quads,Trikes or anything like that.

I know this "Westwood-effect" is somewhat useful, but I have doubts that the Devastator couldn't take down an infantrymen in one shot (at least this should be corrected) :)

Another bug which I've forgot to mention:

- Infantry cannot be deviated. It was also a bit better in Dune 2.

[ophiruslevus]

I think WW did a great when they decided that an infentrymen wouldn't be killed with 1 shot because now you can actually use them in battle!

Besides, there is no super unit or something, that way you have to use combinations of units to win a battle.

[Skorocel]

In the A9V2 mission, the main Harkonnen base has low power (i.e. under 100 %). You can see that, once you come close to it, the 2 Rocket turrets guarding the main entrance won't fire at you. Of course, appart from that, low power also means a much slower production rate for the enemy. Btw, this base, for some unknown reason, also doesn't fire the Death Hand Missile at you (probably because of being produced too slow?)...

[Feda]

In the A9V2 mission, the main Harkonnen base has low power (i.e. under 100 %). You can see that, once you come close to it, the 2 Rocket turrets guarding the main entrance won't fire at you. Of course, appart from that, low power also means a much slower production rate for the enemy. Btw, this base, for some unknown reason, also doesn't fire the Death Hand Missile at you (probably because of being produced too slow?)...

death hand cant be created in low power

[AMIgaBot]

so why airstrike , remen and saboteur can be created low on power?

[Skorocel]

death hand cant be created in low power

Indeed. Haven't noticed this...

[Feda]

so why airstrike , remen and saboteur can be created low on power?

That's how the game was created, ask Westwood :)

[Mernon]

I never seen that death hand can't be used in low power.in fact,I remember it CAN be used.

will be tested.

[Skorocel]

Recently found out that the Atreides Airstrike can actually damage your Carryalls if it drops its bombs in its path. I suppose this is not a bug, though (i.e. it was meant by the creators of the game to be that way)...