Did Carl Jung influenced Dune?

[Egeides]

I stumbled on the word "Dune" when I did not expected it... by reading about Carl Jung in the Wikipedia. Who is he? A Freudian psychologist who discussed the "concept of the collective unconscious ". He also is behind some tests that we now use to qualify personality types. Dune is in the list of litterature influenced by his ideas, along with Babylon 5 (for those interested) and Xenogear/Xenosaga. I wonder what are the relations to be made.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung

Edit: ??!!? And the guy is linked to nazis, flying saucers, Age of Aquarius and satanist Crowley! All at once!!

What theee HELLLL?!

[Vanguard3000]

Yes, Mr. Herbert was a big fan of Jung, and incorporated some of his ideas into Dune, including his 'collective subconscious' and the concept of genetic anscestral memory (the 'Other Memory' of the Bene Gesserit).

[Caid Ivik]

Jung is very actual in the last century. He opened the 13th chamber of science, way to control human minds. However, this is a much older discourse, traces of subconscious formation could be found in any religion, especially eastern, in philosophy by Duns Scotus and especially Bacon. However, Jung was first to merge it with more accurate science, surely.

[TMA_1]

yeah, I thought I remember this idea brought up before. Indeed it is (to me) a pretty large theme of the book. The idea of a collective conscious or subconscious. If I remember right, he was a protege of Sigmund Freud.

[Abelian]

Hi, Just to clarify, Frank Herbert was indeed well read in Carl Jung's work but Carl Jung was not a Freudian psychologist. He was a colleague of Freud who disagreed with many of Freud's sexualist symbolism, split with his theories and founded the idea of the 'collective unconscious' that Frank Herbert uses as the basis for 'Other Memory' among the Bene Gesserit and on a cosmic scale for Leto II. Carl Jung wrote 'Synchronicity' among many other works detailing his more philosophical approach to psychology. And to clarify, the Nazis did pervert Carl Jung's work (as the did Wagner's and a lot of other great artists and thinkers like Nietzsche) for their own ends but he was never a Nazi associate. Frank Herbert was clearly also well read in the work of Maurice Nicol, a writer on Christian symbolism ('THE NEW MAN') in the gospels who was a disciple of Jung. Best, Abelian.

[NeoDevilbane]

Maybe, but I bet GEORGE Jung (ala "Blow") had more influence on Frank Herbert, if you catch my meaning.

"Spice" my arse...

[Egeides]

Thx Abelian. Do you remember from where you know this exactly, both for Jung and Nicol?

[Mahdi]

[psych degree mode]Abelian is right, Jung was not a Freudian psychologists.

[Tako]

bit off topic but related to babylon 5 the creator trachjensky was ahuge fan of dune so indeed it would have inlfuence from jung then

sort of like a cascade effect but then more nicely

[Abelian]

Thanks, Mahdi's Ghost! I'm a Crazy Canuck too; by the way! In response to Egedies, I know this stuff from the very extensive occult/esoteric library of a friend whose house in effect was a library, and my university for ten years of residence. Flippant as it may sound, I also learned that Mary Poppins is actually the transmutation of a mystic prophet called Gurdjieff (who founded the first school of self-improvement and discovery that was not an abbey or nunnery) into the form of an English Nanny. You'll find links to Gurdjieff on various sites dealing with PL Travers who wrote the 'Poppins' books - she was a disciple of his. My reason for dropping in this apparently unrelated item is to observe that the influences on the literature we often take for granted go deep and in unexpected directions. The suggestion Frank Herbert got his inspiration from drugs and the spice was merely an analogue of this (Neodevilbane) misses the point. Genuinely creative people HAVE their drug already. If often takes a lifetime's experience to write something that really enters the public consciousness and I think we can all agree that both Mary Poppins and DUNE have achieved this in their different ways. And if you REALLY want weird; try Kafka or Patrick Suskind!