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TMA_1 · February 2, 2003

Misconseptions involving Games and Movies:

There are many understandable mess ups with people about some things in the movies and games about Dune which are not in the original book by Frank Herbert. I will try to list them out.

1: Many people notice this. it is the use of sound as a weapon in David Lynch's Dune. Though this was a pretty good plot driven tool for the movie, it is not in the book. Weirding moduels are taken from the idea that a certain tone of voice can be created by the human and amplified by a machine that turns it into a weapon. This came from the "weirding ways" of the bene gesserit. These women practiced to perfection the way of using the voice in a hypnotic fashion. They used the inflection, rythem, and tone in the ways of speaking to a perfect level that made the victim's mind very suseptable to suggestion.

2: Tanks, Rifles, Fixed aircraft and other weapons of war in the Dune games are not in the Dune books per se. Though the Baron used artillary against the atreides during the attack on arrakis against Duke Leto, it was generally looked upon as uncooth and "primitive". Rarely were these kinds of weapons used except on arrakis where shields were somewhat useless in many areas. Also there was some usage in rockets by the fremen under Paul's rulership. These were mainly anti air weapons for the same reason as stated above. Shields were useless.

In otherwords. The duniverse did not generally practice warfare as we do in this age. At that time shields were used on all worlds and by the majority of military forces. This stalemate meant that the weapons we use in our universe would be useless to the people of the duniverse because of their shields.

3: Attire, banners, colors of crests, and trappings in the movies and games are generally not precise. Many of the colors used were used for their dramatic effect. You can notice this in many, many places. Thoug this is up to argument because of artistic license, I find it important to bring it up. Some examples are in the sardaukar military dress, the golden lion throne, the lack of corrino crests and banners, the spacing guild attire and their guild navigator, blah blah blah. Again movies are always different than books and same goes for games. but some of the stuff was straight on with the books. :)

4: The timeline in David Lynch's Dune is different from Frank Herbert's book. Of course this was okay with frank because he understood the movie would have to be different for an audiance that have never read his works. Instead of the BG and AG timeline, they stick with the gregorian calender. Though its kinda hard to see with the normal dune video out, you can see this very easily with the version with the stills talking about the history of the butlerian jihad up to the current time of shaddam IV

I will continue with more later. :)

Anathema · February 3, 2003

Q:

How could Paul control the universe? I mean, he only had about 10 million fremen, and he couldn't use all of those as soldiers. House Corrino had at least billions of Sardaukars (I think) plus a whole lot of conscripts from the great houses. But how could Paul possibly enforce his will?

Vanguard3000 · February 3, 2003

Shaddam had much less Sardaukar than that. And during Shaddam;s reign, they had become somewhat comfortable. They believed themselves to be unstoppable because of their virtually undefeated status.

Paul had religion on his side, as well as a powerful fighting force. His Fremen were fanatics, and would stop at nothing to serve Paul.

Anathema · February 3, 2003

Still, an army of a few million warriors is pretty low to control almost a million planets.

exatreide · February 3, 2003

Why would they need to control them?

when paul took the worlds he didnt just take the worlds.

HE BROKE THEM.

broke there spiert, there will to fight ect.

TMA_1 · February 3, 2003

mainly, conscripts were used as the fighting force as the imperium. I part ways with the prequels in their usage. The Sardaukar were a special fighting force breeded on only one planet. Their power could only be that of conquering special areas of interest in relatively small areas at a time. entire wars were fought though with your average conscript. If House Corrino interfered, it would be done with not only sardaukar, but also other technological, military, and financial aid. The sardaukar were a specialized tool of the Great House Corrino. I hope that helps. :)

Vanguard was right in the fact that the fremen had religion on their side. Though this wasnt always the case that the sardaukar began to grow soft. Originally the sardaukar had the same militiristic religion. They were called "solder fanatics". They started to soften though after over extention, overuse and arrogance.

Mahdi · February 3, 2003

Most of the fighters in Paul's Jihad were probably converts to his religion who voluntered to fight, with the Fremen legions being used against the more powerful military forces.

TMA_1 · February 3, 2003

very true, he also probably continued the threat of extinction of the spice with using changed spice essence.

TMA_1 · February 4, 2003

Missionaria Protectiva:

After the Convention of religions on an eccumentical religion (or the C.E.T.), most cultures took from this core belief system. The invented Bible for this religion was a hodge podge of the religious bibles and documents from other earlier earth cultures. This made religion somewhat stale and unimportant to most people. It did though give people one unified faith that all could support. Some cultures broke off from this faith though. The Fremen are a good example. They adapted the zenzunni religion of the ancients, which was a mix of islam and other eastern faiths, to their environment and needs they had. The basic messianic ideals still lasted like all cultures. The bene gesserit took advantage of this in their missionaria protectiva. They could either find pre-existing messianic ideals or make up new ones for each culture they came upon. They wished for their genetically superior male to fit each religion of a christ figure. Once this boy was born, each culture would look upon this boy as their messiah and would follow him. The bene gesserit could then use him as a puppet for total control. In secret, the bene gesserit had the most powerful tool anybody would ever know. What they didnt take much account into though was that this boy would have independant thought, and with a superior intellect, could see through the usage of him. This is where they failed. The idea of a leading messiah controlled by the bene gesserit never truly succeeded.

Vanguard3000 · February 4, 2003

Vanguard was right in the fact that the fremen had religion on their side. Though this wasnt always the case that the sardaukar began to grow soft. Originally the sardaukar had the same militiristic religion. They were called "solder fanatics". They started to soften though after over extention, overuse and arrogance.

Sorry, I didn't mean for my last message to be the same point. I forgot to mention the Sardaukar zeal. Thanks for clarifying that, TMA.

TMA_1 · February 4, 2003

no problemo man. I know you probably have more knowledge in dune than me. :)

Vanguard3000 · February 4, 2003

Heh, well, I don't know about that. I'm due for a re-re-read, but I'll be swamped until summer with english books. :( There are so many books I want to read right now, too.

TMA_1 · February 6, 2003

Space travel

After the jihad, when other forms of travel were worked by machine. A new way of navigation had to be made for all the complex mathematic navigational variables. When the Navigator (a creature adapted by The Guild) entered into the scene, Deep space travel was made possible again. The ships would use the Holtzmen Fold-Space engines which were very new, and these navigators would see partially into the future in order to guide the ship through the other dimension.

I part ways with the prequels, even though they are good books. I go with the DE version. This is how it goes.

Ibrahim Von Holtzmen was born a noble around 7000 B.G. Injured from a thopter racing accident, he was able to survive only by "brain transplant". This was a very ne surgery but his father was desperate to keep his son alive. It was a success but no longer did Ibrahim have a body. In fact he requested and recieved computers that were implanted into his brain in order do enhance his thought process. Eventually he requested a body. The weird thing about this request is he wanted a space ship as his container. His father did so nervously. He grew delusional and manic, during his eccentric travels through space, he came up with the unified theory. This was based on the four dimensions of the "Holtzmen Wave". Eventually though with the jihad, he was killed as a heretic for his computer enhancements. He lived over 3000 years.

from the mid-7000s on, Space travel was done by folding space. A sort of quantum singularity would be created and the specific destination would be made to exit this other realm. Because this was before the jihad, computers did all of the navigation variables. This lasted till the jihad found Navigators. These creatures hailed from the Society of Mystic Mariners (eventually renaimed the Spacing Guild). Because they were biological in nature, they were looked upon as the perfect tool that owuld not be blasphemous in the ages to come.

exatreide · February 7, 2003

Well i know they had ballasists and that sort of thing.

but frank dosnt really mention music that often dose he?

Vanguard3000 · February 8, 2003

Are you kidding? They actually sing songs in Dune. As far as instruments go, you don't hear much, though.

TMA_1 · February 8, 2003

ooooh its a good question because music was rich in the dune universe. There was music for all sorts of moods or situations. Musicians could be poor vagabonds or royal escorts. poetry, limerics, dirges, everything. There was even music to go along with the drug Semuta, which actually intensified the drug. if played long enough, the people on semuta would enter the stage of "ecstasy". lol

Colonel_Worf · February 8, 2003

The balliset is the only music I remember.

exatreide · February 8, 2003

only ballads and balists.

whare is the rock and roll....the pop.....everything seems so.......

17th century music wise...

what is it the 1,900th century or something?

Acriku · February 8, 2003

Their lives are very different, as is their society, probably everybody likes classical music, so the other music died out.

TMA_1 · February 8, 2003

There were more instruments than the baliset.lol geesh. Read above what I said. many forms of music. Mostly folkish though.

exatreide · February 8, 2003

yea i just cant picture paul head banging to avril lavign...

TMA_1 · February 8, 2003

disturbing and wrong...

hey canada, I look at avril as the best and brightest your country has to offer. ;) lol

(I call avirl advil, because you need one when any sense comes in contact with anything having to do with her)

back to subject now.lol

Acriku · February 8, 2003

Oh and let's not think too hard into everything - no one is perfect :)

TMA_1 · February 8, 2003

hehe.

yeah it is really hard to answer many dune questions because frank only gave us a certain amount of the duniverse. I take a lot of my info from the DE that doesnt conflict with the prequels. Though I wish that the majority would agree that the prequels are not canon either.lol

Vanguard3000 · February 8, 2003

[quote author=ExAtreides

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