nemafakei Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 I thought I'd anticipate the dutch on this one...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3974179.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3m0nger Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Yes it just shows how things go around here, people can't speak freely without risking death.First Pim fortuyn and now Theo, Though I didn't like either of them, they didn't deserve this.This just shows how much disrespect a certain culture has for The *dutch* people. Did you know after that guy shot theo (about 20 times if I were to believe the news) he cut his throat and stabbed him a few times, The person who did it left a note in some arabic language and walked calmly into the eastern park. The police caught him pretty soon after a fire fight where one cop was injured and the shooter was shot in the leg and arrested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 I didn't like Fortuyn or Van Gogh (who was a pervert IMO) either, but it's said that public figures can't say bad words about islam these days without becoming a target.It was stupid of him to decline police protection after all those threats though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caid Ivik Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Fortuyn was right in one thing. You shouldn't open your border to everyone, who simply has no idea about your values. When you face a typical brutish asshole, ie neo-nazi skinhead, and actually inform him of his brutality and assholeness, I think arguments on free speech wouldn't help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyarlathotep Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 This just shows how much disrespect a certain culture has for The *dutch* people.The above statement is what we should watch out for. Just because the killer was from a certain culture, it doesn't mean that everyone from that culture agrees with the killers actions. If evryone would start saying the above quote, we'll have a war on our hands... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3m0nger Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 He killed in the name of his god, and I fear he is not the only one capable of doing that in this country. And that's the problem, personally I think everyone should keep their religious expressions etc. private, hopefully this will be a law soon, but I really doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 When you face a typical brutish asshole, ie neo-nazi skinhead, and actually inform him of his brutality and assholeness, I think arguments on free speech wouldn't help you.Hehe, somebody else said that to me in nearly the same wording. Very true.I agree with Nyar btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozared Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Im dutch, let me clear this up for you:When van Gogh left the building, somebody in the traditional maroccan suit (forgot name) walked up to him, starting talking to him, and then suddenly shot him. after shooting a few times van Gogh crawled across the street, the guy persuited him and shot him again. then he indeed stabbed him (he also had a knife). then the suspect ran away, shot a civilian on the way, and ended up in the park. when he tryed to get out he found out he was surrounded by police and shot a few times. a Police agent arriving on a mother got hit, but had a bulletproof thingie on, so he fell, but didn't have serious injuries. Gogh did some VERY rude expressions to the islam - he called muslims "sheepfuckers" and called a political-muslim-group leader in belgian "allah's pimp". All in all he was a rude person, but it was his MEANING, and we in holland got freedom of having your meaning. if you kill somebody because of his meaning and then say "yeah allah told me to do, now i go to paradise" your a sick person, dot.What i'm more shocked about, what happened earlier:A guy walks trough the street. 2 Maroccans on a scooter ride very fast past an old lady. the guy asks for a little respect for elders. next second he's on the ground being beaten up, he died from it. you knew about that? no. jet it is way shockyer then what happened to van Gogh. Why does Gogh get more attention? because he's famous? what bullshit country am i living in?Mozared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Mozared: the English word for mening is opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3m0nger Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 mozared you are missing the whole point completely.Van gogh was murdered in the name of god, which shows it DOES happen.Now what are we going to do about that? I'm sure this won't be the last one, each time someone speaks up he gets shut down or murdered. All those people at my school say it's a great thing van gogh died 'He should've been more carefull, don't insult religions' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcel71 Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 "a Police agent arriving on a mother got hit"whahaha, that i would want to see, a policeman on a mother ;DHe ment motor ;)Anyways...He made a movie called: submission.I did not see the movie, but it is said that a part of the movie is a woman with only a scarve on (hoofddoekje) and attached to her body pages of the Koran.In islamitic religioun this is VERY, VERY disrespectfull.....So about 'foreigners' not respecting the Dutch values... I think it should come from both sides. Dutch don't respect any other values either. If you eat not at 6pm then you are not considered as normal... Dutch are small minded people (except me ;)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozared Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I know mening = opinion, just floated out. i was writing that story, 1 sentence per 5 minutes because i was doing 3 other things. same for the mother thing:PIt's shit to kill "in the name of god" anyway, if your god "tells you to kill" it's a shitgod anyway."So about 'foreigners' not respecting the Dutch values... I think it should come from both sides. Dutch don't respect any other values either. If you eat not at 6pm then you are not considered as normal... "I don't agree, the eating thing is a very extreme example, we dont eat at 6pm, sometimes 7 pm or sometimes even 8 and people are considering in "normal".Mozared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyarlathotep Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 you knew about that? no. jet it is way shockyer then what happened to van Gogh. Why does Gogh get more attention? because he's famous?Dude, who are you referring to when asking if whomever knew about it ? Obviously the foreigners on this forum don't, cause it wasn't international news at the time. But all the Dutch people here know about it. Besides, if you want to get it all straight, why not mentioning all that died due to unneeded violence (it's quite a list you know)?And why van Gogh "get's more attention" in other countries (the guy beaten to death got his fair share in the Dutch media as well) is not because he was famous, but he was known in other countries (by some anyway).Besides, van Gogh had nothing against moslims in general. He even paid for a surgery for his moslim neighbour a while back. The freaking biggest problem is that so many people claim to know everything about van Gogh, but the truth is, almost no one did (does)."yeah allah told me to do, now i go to paradise"That would be true if the police would have killed the assasin, which they didn't. Next good action they can do is to give him a shower with blood from a pig. According to the religion, he would burn in hell (some sort of hell that is). If he is truely that religious, there's no better punishmentSkorpija, in the movie submission, you indeed see a woman with just her face covered, but she hasn't got the Koran "attached" to her, but it's written on her body.We all need to stop generalizing everyone from a culture. Not everyone in one culture is an extremist. Talks of the likes in this thread turn people into extremist (that includes every nationality). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcel71 Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 haha, Nyar, you sound a bit racistic there ;)Anyways, to write the Koran on her body was a TOTAL DISRESPECT of their believes...I do not say that he should have been killed, but i also don"t think van Gogh was correct.Actually i found him a fat, dighusting (or how the hell u write that), *put here any other negative name*, person...I really disliked to see him on tv, and i did not appreciate the things he said. Something this and this person (imam i think it was) is a whore of bla, bla bla....So he is dead... That's life, from the day he was killed i am sure 500 other people were killed too... I feel more sorry for them...ps. i am bored so maybe i am a bit fierce in my text ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tako Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 "So about 'foreigners' not respecting the Dutch values... I think it should come from both sides. Dutch don't respect any other values either. If you eat not at 6pm then you are not considered as normal... Dutch are small minded people (except me ;))I think we are to open, everything goes here i hollandEverybody can do his or her thing but say one word about it and you're an racistI did n't like van Gogh either but He had an opinion and he didn't care what averybody else thought, he said it.Thats freedom of speech, They can say things about us but we can't say things back because then it is discriminating? c'mon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3m0nger Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Exactly, and they should be more open to us then we should be to them, why? because they are the foreigners, they come to our country so they should adapt. Of course we should help them in the right direction, but things like positive-discrimination is way out of line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyarlathotep Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Anyways, to write the Koran on her body was a TOTAL DISRESPECT of their believes...van Gogh didn't write that on her body. The story is that it's what was done to her by moslims... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tako Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 more newscherges put at (is this right??) the shootermurderattempted murderattemted manslaughter (doodslag)terrorist actionterrorist planningetc.please correct me if I made som e mistakes about the last two don't remember them correctlysntence asked: life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozared Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Dude, who are you referring to when asking if whomever knew about it ? Obviously the foreigners on this forum don't, cause it wasn't international news at the time. But all the Dutch people here know about it. I was meaning that more sarcastic, i'm kinda sure not every dutch people around here knows about it. I know the list is long, but i was meaning that that is way more shocking, but it's totally unknown, and when something less shocking happens to a famous person it's a big disaster, thats just disgusting.Oh and by the way, you said "That would be true if the police would have killed the assasin, which they didn't." which i dont agree. does the killer matter? whatever happens he'll "end up in paradise".The two and one of many Mozared's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyarlathotep Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Oh and by the way, you said "That would be true if the police would have killed the assasin, which they didn't." which i dont agree. does the killer matter? whatever happens he'll "end up in paradise".That's what I tried to explain. According to his believe he won't end up in paradise if he hasn't been killed during, or right after the assasination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3m0nger Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Isn't *life* sentence only 20 years in holland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tako Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Isn't *life* sentence only 20 years in holland?yes by law I think but than he 'll get TBS (don't know the word in English)meaning: He'll be locked up in an santorium kinda place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3m0nger Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 TBS is for people who are mentally unstable, in other words you're saying that religious people should be locked up in the TBS centre.He won't get TBS, he isn't crazy. He knew what he was doing, he planned it with some other extremists. He'll just be sentenced for life, which is 20 years and with good behaviour he'll get out in 12, that is if he survives prison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 He'll just be sentenced for life, which is 20 years and with good behaviour he'll get out in 12, that is if he survives prison.Despite popular belief, life sentence = captivity till the day you die. I don't know what caused this myth that a life sentence is only 20 years (pretty stupid when you think of it). Life sentences don't occur often, though more often then they used to. I think it's a safe bet this guy will get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3m0nger Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Nope, You may be right it isn't 20 years. but a life sentence is NOT a life time in jail.Volkert van der G will be free within 20 years. So I think it's a safe 'bet' this guy will get about the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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