September 11th 1973

[Edric O]

A lot of events have happened on September 11th, and for some reason most of the major ones seem to have been tragic. We all know about the WTC attacks and last year's murder of Anna Lindh, but there is also a much older September 11th tragedy.

The Chilean coup d'etat in 1973.

Why is this event significant? Because it was sponsored by the CIA and because it replaced a democratically elected president with a brutal dictator - but, most importantly, because the elected president was a staunch Marxist and the brutal dictator later established one of the most extremely capitalistic regimes in history.

The two men were Salvador Allende (the elected president) and Augusto Pinochet (the dictator). You might have heard of them before.

After being elected, in 1970, Allende inaugurated "La v

[exatreide]

Ahhh edric...

I missed you....

[Dude_Doc]

September always seems to be a... dark month... The attacks on New York and Washington, the Chilean coup, the pointless murdering of Anna Lindh, the terrorist siege in Beslan (Russia)...

...and my birthday...

[HasimirFenring]

Ahhh edric...

I missed you....

So did I.  My faith in the left always wanes while Edric is away.  I can already feel it coming back.

Pinochet put in power on September 11?  The irony is thick enough to cut with a butter knife..

[SurlyPIG]

Pretty disrespectful timing Edric.  It stinks of a "you got what you deserved" insinuation.

[DukeLeto]

Ah, I was waiting for one of our faithful right-wing extremists to come in here and attack the facts with their blinding illogic...

Now Ace, please be a dear and point out where Edric said anything even remotely close to "you got what you deserved."

Ooh, good timing with that edit, too... ::)

And indeed, it is tragic that such a system was toppled by the greedy interests of upper-class America.  Tragic, but neither surprising or novel, mind you.  If I can find my copy of Dude, Where's my Country?, it's got a a good list of countries whose democratically-elected governments where deposed and replaced by dictatorships courtesy of the US Government.

[Caid Ivik]

I've seen one, we can say, poetical movie composed of 11 short stories made by various regiseurs around the world as their "comments" for events of 11.september 2001. Some stories were perfectly set (ie those from Burkina and Bosna), others pure anti-USA propaganda (ie Egypt; tough his justification of terrorism, that we have democracies, so civilians are responsible for foreign policy, had some truth) and some truly off the problem. Pinochet's revolt was alongside them, made by one chilan dissident, of course with general himself presented as CIA agent. Hard to imagine why Pinochet ordered such mass killings (and other forms of terror) with scale far worse as what we could see here about 60 years before, and yet spared such guys as this one - he claimed that he was jailed, but freed and exiled 5 years later. Or how is it possible that potential socialist ally was so ignored by eastern powers, if really were USA involved.

Perhaps we should wait until this common hatred against USA perishes (if it won't cost our own perishing) and then describe this cause of Allende and Pinochet sine ira et studio.

[Dude_Doc]

You can read all about Allende here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Allende

...and, if someone is interested in Pinochet, for any reason:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_Pinochet

[nemafakei]

"Pretty disrespectful timing Edric"

Uhh... How?!

[ordos45]

I saw the movie a while ago Caid, if it's the same one I think it is.  11 short films on 9/11?  I loved the ones from Lebanon and Iran.

As for the timing Nema, I think he meant posting a bad American deed of 9/11 on 9/11.

A few other things over the years on 9/11:

*On 9/11/1504 Santiago, Chile was wiped out by indigenous tribes.

*On 9/11/1919 US Marines invade Honduras.

*On 9/11/1922 The British Mandate of Palestine begins.

*On 9/11/1941 Construction of the Pentagon began.

*On 9/11/1941 The US Navy was ordered to attack German U-boats.

*On 9/11/1943 The Minsk and Lida Ghetto liquidations were begun by the Nazis.

*On 9/11/1978 Janet Parker becomes the last victim of Smallpox on Earth, after a lab accident.

*On 9/11/1987 The US establishes Emergency Number Day.

*On 9/11/1997 Scotland votes to re-establish its own Parliament.

[SurlyPIG]

Duke Leto, read this first then re-read my post and your reply.  Second, I am, rather obviously, a centrist-libertarian and not a right-wing extremist.  Third, it just seemed inappropreate to me, but then again I don't speak ill of the dead during their funeral and that sort of thing.  It strikes me as another exploitation of that dreadful date, no better than any of the browbeating RNC speakers that work it in every sentence.  But, hey, if I'm wrong, good.  I just don't like to see that kind of thing and I didn't say anything last time it happened so I did this time.

[HasimirFenring]

Pretty disrespectful timing Edric.  It stinks of a "you got what you deserved" insinuation.

First of all, I VERY much doubt that such an insinuation existed.  Secondly, on what day would you have Edric post it?  On a NOT anniversary of it occuring?  9/11 seems the most appropriate date to present this.

[Caid Ivik]

I saw the movie a while ago Caid, if it's the same one I think it is.  11 short films on 9/11?  I loved the ones from Lebanon and Iran.

As for the timing Nema, I think he meant posting a bad American deed of 9/11 on 9/11.

A few other things over the years on 9/11:

*On 9/11/1504 Santiago, Chile was wiped out by indigenous tribes.

*On 9/11/1919 US Marines invade Honduras.

*On 9/11/1922 The British Mandate of Palestine begins.

*On 9/11/1941 Construction of the Pentagon began.

*On 9/11/1941 The US Navy was ordered to attack German U-boats.

*On 9/11/1943 The Minsk and Lida Ghetto liquidations were begun by the Nazis.

*On 9/11/1978 Janet Parker becomes the last victim of Smallpox on Earth, after a lab accident.

*On 9/11/1987 The US establishes Emergency Number Day.

*On 9/11/1997 Scotland votes to re-establish its own Parliament.

If I remember correctly, in one from Israel they talked about many 11.9. events  ;D

[SurlyPIG]

First of all, I VERY much doubt that such an insinuation existed.  Secondly, on what day would you have Edric post it?  On a NOT anniversary of it occuring?  9/11 seems the most appropriate date to present this.

Don't tell me you didn't pick up on it, you said yourself the irony was thick enough to cut with a knife.  Maybe I'm just connecing the dots too much but whatever.  Secondly, yes.  Any other of the 365 days would have sufficed, especially seeing as how this topic has been discussed at length before.

[Anathema]

Duke Leto, Ace isn't much of a rightist at all. Maybe he is on this forum, seeing as how there are so many kiddies here who think "communism is L33T", but not in the real world. But since neither you or Edric seem to live in there, I'll drop it ::)

Not that I agree with what ACE said though.

[DukeLeto]

Duke Leto, read this first then re-read my post and your reply.

Perhaps you read the change I made to mine?  It didn't say "insinuating" when I first went to make my post - It said "It stinks of 'you got what you deserved'".  Hence why I went back and added "Ooh, good timing with that edit, too..."  Certainly you don't forget what you actually posted that easily?

[HasimirFenring]

Don't tell me you didn't pick up on it, you said yourself the irony was thick enough to cut with a knife.  Maybe I'm just connecing the dots too much but whatever.  Secondly, yes.  Any other of the 365 days would have sufficed, especially seeing as how this topic has been discussed at length before.

When I said that, I meant to imply not that Americas got what they deserved (what did those people in the WTC have to do with Pinochet?  Probably very litte), but that Americans are hated and attacked in the way most strong shown in the 9/11 attacks BECAUSE we meddle in other nations in this way (Chile), more often than not with disasterous results.

[SurlyPIG]

Perhaps you read the change I made to mine?  It didn't say "insinuating" when I first went to make my post - It said "It stinks of 'you got what you deserved'".  Hence why I went back and added "Ooh, good timing with that edit, too..."  Certainly you don't forget what you actually posted that easily?

Not exactly.  I added the word timing and changed rant to insinuation so as to avoid misinterpretation of my meaning.  Last time I checked I am entitled to do that.  You have no reason to complain anyway, seeing as how your post came well after I edited mine and thus you would have ample opportunity to alter your post accordingly.

[Edric O]

Duke Leto, Ace isn't much of a rightist at all. Maybe he is on this forum, seeing as how there are so many kiddies here who think "communism is L33T", but not in the real world. But since neither you or Edric seem to live in there, I'll drop it ::)

On the contrary, you should finish what you began, particularly since I'm very eager to hear the reasoning behind your gratuitous insults thrown in my direction. If you have any issues with communism, then let us discuss them, shall we?

Pretty disrespectful timing Edric. It stinks of a "you got what you deserved" insinuation.

The event happened on September 11th. How exactly is it "disrespectful timing" to commemorate it on the day it actually happened?

Duke Leto, read this first then re-read my post and your reply.  Second, I am, rather obviously, a centrist-libertarian and not a right-wing extremist.  Third, it just seemed inappropreate to me, but then again I don't speak ill of the dead during their funeral and that sort of thing.  It strikes me as another exploitation of that dreadful date, no better than any of the browbeating RNC speakers that work it in every sentence.

The coup happened 28 years before the 9/11 attacks in 2001! Perhaps I should go back in time and kindly ask Pinochet to stage it one day later out of respect for the people who were going to die on September 11th 28 years in the future?

But, hey, if I'm wrong, good.  I just don't like to see that kind of thing and I didn't say anything last time it happened so I did this time.

Yes, you are most certainly wrong. There was no insinuation. The only ones who would "deserve to get it" are the military commanders who were part of the junta, particularly Pinochet himself, and those who actively supported them.

Now, why don't we put this silly matter behind us and start discussing something actually relevant? It is depressing to see that certain people on this forum look for hidden meanings where there are none, apparently out of some sort of irrational automatic rejection of anything posted by some sort of "commie". A little more open-mindedness would certainly do you some good, Ace. Especially since you call yourself a centrist.

[Edric O]

You can read all about Allende here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Allende

...and, if someone is interested in Pinochet, for any reason:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_Pinochet

There are also two other related articles.

Chilean coup of 1973: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_coup_of_1973

U.S. intervention in Chile: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._intervention_in_Chile

[SurlyPIG]

The event happened on September 11th. How exactly is it "disrespectful timing" to commemorate it on the day it actually happened?

It's not, but it just seems like you're exploiting the attention drawn to the date to push forward an anti-American, pro-communist agenda.

Yes, you are most certainly wrong. There was no insinuation.

Good.  My apologies.

Now, why don't we put this silly matter behind us and start discussing something actually relevant? It is depressing to see that certain people on this forum look for hidden meanings where there are none, apparently out of some sort of irrational automatic rejection of anything posted by some sort of "commie". A little more open-mindedness would certainly do you some good, Ace. Especially since you call yourself a centrist.

Rejection of what?  I don't dispute that it occurred and that it was obviously a terrible, tragic mistake.  Open-mindedness?  I know a fair amount about this event, and it has already been discussed in this forum at length.  That's why it seems questionable to bring it up again.  Call me a right wing extremist, call me closed-minded, or call me a conservative putz, (I really don't care) but that's just what I think when I read this thread.

[Caid Ivik]

Perhaps (and as we know EdricO for short time, I think we may say it surely) there was no intention to mock USA in this thread, more to just distract us from the more recent event to comemorate another blow to democracy. And as Allende was (at least I believe) democratically elected, Pinochet's coup was such.

[Dude_Doc]

Wikipedia surely is one of, if not the, best information databases around. Everybody should use it.

[nemafakei]

I read it as more of a "The lesson to be learnt is that there's a big world out there" type statement, than an anti-american agenda.

Which, coincidentally, should also have been a lesson learnt from the WTC attacks.

[SurlyPIG]

Very well.  It thought the connection was a fairly obvious jump to make but if nobody else saw it it must be my pessimism getting the best of me.  I take back what I said.  My apologies, Edric.