Ghosts?

[Sardauker-Kirov]

link

I've heard about people editing pictures..... But seriously, not all of them can be fake.

[Acriku]

Hehe I find those pictures comical. Seriously, people will buy into anything. Some white mist on a picture suddenly means the house is haunted, or some photographic error means that an angry apparition is pissing some old people off. Please. If there is one thing I have no tolerance or "open-mindedness" for, it is the idea of ghosts. I mean for St. Peterson's sake! What level have we brought ourselves down to? Next thing you know we'll be screaming leprechauns every time something shiny glares onto photographs.

[slaphapy]

I did not look at the video posted (sorry but cant wait that long/ and frankly i dont like looking at that kinda stuff before i go to sleep)

but i have seen some shows where they show videos of ghosts and pictures of ghosts ...

i saw one show where they were trying to mimic pictures of ghosts and they found a college photography student who was making her own... she showed exactly how she did it too... it was just lengthening the exposure of the film while you had 1 person sit as a normal pose for a photograph (to mimic that it wasnt just a picture made for capturing a ghost) for about 10 seconds... then you got someone else (in white clothing) to move around during the film exposure period.

[danielsh]

Yeah... I don't have much faith in ghosts, goblins, or gods.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Hehe I find those pictures comical. Seriously, people will buy into anything. Some white mist on a picture suddenly means the house is haunted, or some photographic error means that an angry apparition is pissing some old people off. Please. If there is one thing I have no tolerance or "open-mindedness" for, it is the idea of ghosts. I mean for St. Peterson's sake! What level have we brought ourselves down to? Next thing you know we'll be screaming leprechauns every time something shiny glares onto photographs.

Wow, very strange to be having mist in the middle of a house, dry air, garage even. If you actually took the time to watch the videos.

Even if scientists gets the hard proof smacked in their face, they continue to deny it and make up petty excuses to cover their own words and ones logic.

[Dunenewt]

It's a load of rubbish, get over it.

[Acriku]

Wow, very strange to be having mist in the middle of a house, dry air, garage even. If you actually took the time to watch the videos.

Even if scientists gets the hard proof smacked in their face, they continue to deny it and make up petty excuses to cover their own words and ones logic.

Since when are pictures taken outside of a laboratory setting by amateurs who may or may not have doctored it proof? You have no idea what science is, do you Kirov?

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Since when are pictures taken outside of a laboratory setting by amateurs who may or may not have doctored it proof? You have no idea what science is, do you Kirov?

I don't know? Ask them? Maybe they've photographed and made a ghost in those 9501 frames for fun of it.

And did you even read, better yet.. DID you even watched it?

Some of the pictures were checked and they didn't found any clues of tampering.

Science, let me see. What purpose has science actually, with ghosts, science is useful for physical and mental purposes.

If you watched ghost documentary on the television (Undoubtedly, you don't watch 'em.) they've discovered that some ghosts pictures are fake, they are either messed with or the most known problems with the photography is the light dots from reflections.

Seriously, how can the video be fake? Go do a research on it, my ignorant friend.

[Acriku]

Calling any anomaly in a crude photographic image a ghost is ignorant of all practices of science as we know them today. Strange things happen - mist gets caught in the room, light refracts in such a way as to give it a human impression, but none of this amounts to an apparition.

[nemafakei]

A photo apparently of one of the "Rutland Panthers" was on the front of yesterday's local paper.

Not much goes on in Rutland.

[Dude_Doc]

Well, as the intro-text said: you just have to make up your own mind.

Now, do I believe in ghosts? Well, for me, the phenomenon "ghost" has not yet been explained. People say it is the souls of dead people who are walking. Why is that? Who said they were souls of dead people? What was the proof?

I had a theory on this before. Ghosts, are not ghosts. They are time-distortions. They are what could have happened should the person not died. Of course, the first question in mind is probably: why don't we see ghosts everywhere then? Well, it's the same with "dead people's souls" - thing: why didn't they go to heaven or hell? What keeps the ghost in it's place? Why don't people see that kind of ghosts everywhere, like on every place there has been a murder? That would make them quite a lot, and people wouldn't be scared, rather tired of them being around - since they would be so many. And why do they appear sometimes as normal, only a little transparent, and sometimes like zombies from some movie?

Anyways, since I have not seen any ghost (yet), I have no reason to believe they exist. Although, it is harder to make hoaxed movies than pictures (more time, planning, sometimes money and makeup), it doesn't mean they are real - only more believable.

[Cyborg]

Why don't we redefine the word ghost?

Ghost: Anomality in a picture.

[slaphapy]

Why don't we redefine the word ghost?

Ghost: Anomality in a picture.

its similar to UFO's except UFO's are easier to believe, considering all they really truly are is an unidentified flying object... a frisby could fly through the air and if you didnt know what it was its a UFO...

i dont see why it should be considered harder to edit a video... havn't you seen all of the different video editing software.... even if the better ones do cost insane amounts of money, people did download them from Kazaa and places for free.... some of them are amazingly easy to use and can be used to make professional looking movies. considering they can make professional looking videos i dont see why it wouldn't therefore be easier to make the less quality video recordings of the ghosts you see...

i do understand that it is much easier to make faked photos, people have been doing that for centuries. there was even a doctor who attempted make it look as though he could levitate by taking a picture of him standing on a chair and then erasing the chair in the negative. Well its now a time of motion capture videos, so it makes sense that people would be taking it to the next step and editing movies.

[Acriku]

All a movie is, is a bunch of pictures shown one after the other at a certain rate (frame per second). So although that does take more work than a single picture to alter, it is still quite easy especially with today's media tools.

[Dude_Doc]

All a movie is, is a bunch of pictures shown one after the other at a certain rate (frame per second). So although that does take more work than a single picture to alter, it is still quite easy especially with today's media tools.

Yes, that is true. Which is also a sad thing for normal and "honest" people (like Fox Mulder etc).

That is, in the future, no one will probably know what's real and what's fake because of the newer, better and easier programs there are to edit videos "of the paranormal". 10 years ago, you had to be a professional to do it, now, I can edit and cut whatever I want with a single program - one of my friends know 3D-programs and made a Star Wars fan-movie 5 years ago (he got A+ in drama class for that one, I might add). Imagine the possibilities in 10 years...

Anyways, you still have to be at the right place at the right time, and if you want to make it "big" like the Alien Autopsy (which was a hoax), you also have to explain everything (how did you get it, how come you were on that place in exactly that moment etc).

So yes, you could make any movie you want, but it still takes some effort to do it.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Light is not smoke you know. The chances that smoke may form a head or anything similiar is higher than that of light.

People that call the orbs of light floating around in pictures are fools, and those orbs ARE reflections.

Sure, you can alter a picture so you create a ghost. But 'todays' media technology can also be used to spot what is fake and what is not. If the user is highly skilled in the tools.

People who do not believe in ghosts have actually seen ghosts and could have experienced strange unexplainable things.

Most of my friends do not believe in ghosts and 'yet' they've seen them.

Scientists will always call everything fake or an error. Why? Because they don't believe in them, even if they saw a ghost right in front of their face, they will call and see it as an appearance out of their mind.

Time-distortions..? Yeah, and a high-density black hole must be residing in my toilet. :P

Just kidding..

Anyways, ghosts are researched by ghost hunters... Even though some of them are idiotic as hell.

I have my theories with ghosts.

Ghosts may be haunting/roaming around a place, because of;

The one that died may be so fond to his property that he decides to live near it.

Some may be fond to their family so they still live with them as a ghost in secrecy.

[Dude_Doc]

Sure, you can alter a picture so you create a ghost. But 'todays' media technology can also be used to spot what is fake and what is not. If the user is highly skilled in the tools.

Yes, but not everyone knows how to use that technology to determine what's real or not.

Scientists will always call everything fake or an error. Why? Because they don't believe in them, even if they saw a ghost right in front of their face, they will call and see it as an appearance out of their mind.

That is because they can't prove what a ghost is. Can you prove that God exists? That we have souls? That there is a force and that I can use it to move objects? (Okay, that's a little bit extreme, but still). There are probably many scientists who have seen UFO's too, but what can they do? Say that they saw it? Make a detailed evaluation? What would that do? Besides that, ghosts don't pose any treath, they don't spread any deceases and they don't hurt people (physically). Just like UFO's. Just like bigfoot and the Loch-Ness monster. There is no reason to "hunt" them. Even if the hunters found a ghost, what would they do?

Time-distortions..? Yeah, and a high-density black hole must be residing in my toilet. Tongue

Just kidding..

Writing movie scripts isn't that easy you know... ;)

Ghosts may be haunting/roaming around a place, because of;

The one that died may be so fond to his property that he decides to live near it.

Some may be fond to their family so they still live with them as a ghost in secrecy.

Heh, capitalists can also become ghosts I see...

[Acriku]

Light is not smoke you know. The chances that smoke may form a head or anything similiar is higher than that of light.

People that call the orbs of light floating around in pictures are fools, and those orbs ARE reflections.

Oh please, you can't provide any evidence for ghosts so you resort to arguments such as this.

Sure, you can alter a picture so you create a ghost. But 'todays' media technology can also be used to spot what is fake and what is not. If the user is highly skilled in the tools.

People who do not believe in ghosts have actually seen ghosts and could have experienced strange unexplainable things.

Most of my friends do not believe in ghosts and 'yet' they've seen them.

Yeah, everybody with a picture of a ghost put it through a rigorous test of proof. Please, people will believe anything these days and they will so quickly that they don't even question the photograph or the "experience." If everybody was a skeptic, the supernatural will conveniently cease to exist.

Scientists will always call everything fake or an error. Why? Because they don't believe in them, even if they saw a ghost right in front of their face, they will call and see it as an appearance out of their mind.

What else can they do when faced with an extraordinary lack of evidence for these apparitions? You can't blame them, a healthy dose of skepticism is always needed.

Anyways, ghosts are researched by ghost hunters... Even though some of them are idiotic as hell.

I have my theories with ghosts.

Ghosts may be haunting/roaming around a place, because of;

The one that died may be so fond to his property that he decides to live near it.

Some may be fond to their family so they still live with them as a ghost in secrecy.

Enter evidence now:.. Oh wait your "theory" is just a play of imagination. But I guess many things are these days.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Oh please, you can't provide any evidence for ghosts so you resort to arguments such as this.

Yeah, everybody with a picture of a ghost put it through a rigorous test of proof. Please, people will believe anything these days and they will so quickly that they don't even question the photograph or the "experience." If everybody was a skeptic, the supernatural will conveniently cease to exist.

What else can they do when faced with an extraordinary lack of evidence for these apparitions? You can't blame them, a healthy dose of skepticism is always needed.

Enter evidence now:.. Oh wait your "theory" is just a play of imagination. But I guess many things are these days.

Hah. Like the scientists have evidence that ghosts DOESN'T exist. Believing in the existance ghosts is the same thing as believing in God. Scientists will never be able to prove both of their existance.

People will believe anything in these days, if they watched too many movies yes. But an expert in the fields of digital art can easily say what is edited and what is not.

Same goes for the digital dinosaurs, even though they're not the real thing.

Scientists: "If we don't see the thing, the thing does not exist, despite what people claims of what they've seen."

People believed in ghosts for almost centuries, much like in the same way with God.

There are close-minded people that sticks way too much with the physics books. "If it is not in the book, then it does not exist." They can't use common logic or think. "What if there is something out there."

Theory and lack of evidence? Once again, state your OWN evidence about the non-existance of ghosts.

I live near the forest and I've witnessed strange events happening near the German defense bunkers, and so did everyone else. People that walked through the forests have seen appearances and heard weird noises, some of them even saw a few 'apparitions' running through the forest with a rifle at night and day.

And as for evidence? 46 people has experienced the weird things near the bunkers and forest. %76 of them are not informed about the actual existance of the bunkers.

So let me guess your reply to this one; "The 46 must be seeing things because of drugs."

Not everyone smokes weed, y'know.

And about UFOs, there is a very large chance that UFOs are visiting earth. There are other civilizations out there and there are scientists that believe in their existance. But the same with ghosts, it's hard to determine whether what is real and what is not.

Why do they visit earth?.... And why do we visit other planets?  Guess.

[Dude_Doc]

Hah. Like the scientists have evidence that ghosts DOESN'T exist. Believing in the existance ghosts is the same thing as believing in God. Scientists will never be able to prove both of their existance.

Which is my point. They have nothing to research on. Unless, of course, you invent something in form of the Ghostbusters-gun, which can trap ghosts. But those were harmful to humans. "Our" ghosts are not.

Scientists: "If we don't see the thing, the thing does not exist, despite what people claims of what they've seen."

There is no reason to research in ghosts. Just like UFO's, bigfoot and LN-monster. Scientists would rather explore Mars, or invent robots and medicine that people need. Scientists need something to experiment on. Something to research in. How can they research in God, or ghosts? It's just a matter of believing it or not.

People believed in ghosts for almost centuries, much like in the same way with God.

Which doesn't mean that they exist.

There are close-minded people that sticks way too much with the physics books. "If it is not in the book, then it does not exist." They can't use common logic or think. "What if there is something out there."

They are not closed minded people. Those books provide evidence and theories that are logical. Ghost stories, UFO's, religion and all that does not. When they can research those things, then they can determine about them.

Theory and lack of evidence? Once again, state your OWN evidence about the non-existance of ghosts.

The first thing is to provide evidence of something before it can be determined.

I live near the forest and I've witnessed strange events happening near the German defense bunkers, and so did everyone else. People that walked through the forests have seen appearances and heard weird noises, some of them even saw a few 'apparitions' running through the forest with a rifle at night and day.

And as for evidence? 46 people has experienced the weird things near the bunkers and forest. %76 of them are not informed about the actual existance of the bunkers.

Has there been causalities? Did anybody come to harm? When the "other side" do harm us, then we will research and inestigate about what and how.

So let me guess your reply to this one; "The 46 must be seeing things because of drugs."

Okay, so we should just drop all our research and believe in those 46 without evidence? Should we also believe in everyone who have "seen" the mothman, bigfoot and the Loch-Ness monster? Should we believe all conspiracies and UFO stories? We can't. Some may sound better than others, but they still need evidence. Some time ago, on Discoery channel, they made a research about people's minds. In an experiment, about 5 people went out to a place (with the instructions that there were a crashed spacecraft and soldiers guarding it - there were people dressed as soldiers as well as the UFO dummies etc). After 30 days, all 5 had different memories about how many soldiers there were, about the craft and such. Some said there were 10 soldiers, another only remembered 5 or 1. It turned out that everyone had it wrong. Some memories was completely false. This should also be taken into consideration everytime people say something.

And about UFOs, there is a very large chance that UFOs are visiting earth. There are other civilizations out there and there are scientists that believe in their existance. But the same with ghosts, it's hard to determine whether what is real and what is not.

Nobody knows if there are other civilizations out there. It is probable that there are, but we simply do not know. Why is it impossible that there are no aliens? That we are alone?

Why do they visit earth?.... And why do we visit other planets?  Guess.

Isn't it strange that after all these years and abduction stories, not one person has returned with anything "unusual" from any spacecraft/encounter?

[slaphapy]

good points cyborg,

Some time ago, on Discoery channel, they made a research about people's minds. In an experiment, about 5 people went out to a place (with the instructions that there were a crashed spacecraft and soldiers guarding it - there were people dressed as soldiers as well as the UFO dummies etc). After 30 days, all 5 had different memories about how many soldiers there were, about the craft and such. Some said there were 10 soldiers, another only remembered 5 or 1. It turned out that everyone had it wrong. Some memories was completely false.

ugh i watched that too... how could i have forgotten about it, such a good point.  BUT to make your point a little more strong (again we are looking at the memories of people..hehe and we are seing in yourself you remember something that was not there).  HERE is what happened on the show (again if someone else has watched it and remembers something else that happened or something they know i'm wrong about please fill in the blanks!):

1) so they got a group of completely at random people, women and men, asking them if they would like to go on a nature hike or something similar.

2) they introduced their guide and whatnot, and they also gave each of them a camera in a hat or something similar, so that they could see everything they saw on their hike. and then they started off.

3) previously they had set up the route the guide should take, and the guide was informed of the "test" and that there was a strange site being made up. It was well into the path, so the people would i assume "free their minds" so to speak on the way before they encountered the site.

4) as they were hiking along the guide told them that recently their had been something happen which had sparked the interests of the federal government. and of course they wandered by a site which had caution tape and 1, count them ONE guard who was NOT (if i remember correctly)armed.  There was also some metalic looking pieces hanging in trees, and on the ground.  And again I am certain there was NO spaceship there.

5) now the guide told them to keep moving along because they were told not to interfere with the "investigation"... of course this sparked everyone's interest and they were all attempting to get as much of a look at the area as possible, which their view was hugely blocked by trees and foliage of other types...

6) as they arrived back they were told that the hike was over and they could return home and would be contacted in 1 month.

7) of course they were contacted and brought in. Each was asked to tell their story of what had happened that day.  NONE of them was even close in comparisson to their OWN site range (as judged by the cameras on their hat)... several mentioned seeing a space craft, all of them mentioned armed guards who were very concerned about people seeing the site and yada yada...

So therefore couldn't this explane at least 90% of ALL the sitings of any paranormal beings, or events? simply a problem with man's memory.  I know you will say "but they are filmed" and they "have photos" ya well, if you had never heard of a ghost or paranormal events of whatever kind would you look at either the films or the photos (especially photos that just have a small somewhat human-looking shape) and think "hey that's something from the dead that we have captured on film" no you would generally use COMMON SENSE to think that it is simply an occurance of something that does not happen all the time.  It could be an excess of heated moisture in one area, or "thats a plane! those things that people fly in all the time" but a glimpse obviously can change all of that, if you glimpse a plane and then look back and its not their... "IT'S EVAPORATED INTO THIN AIR!"  IF you see a person there who "was not their that day" because it's so easy to believe that... no way could their have been someone there that nobody knew and happened to walk by.

Isn't it strange that after all these years and abduction stories, not one person has returned with anything "unusual" from any spacecraft/encounter?

actually, there have been some people who claim to have woken up with "wounds" that "were not there before" but again, its impossible to know whether they were actually there before and not noticed, whether someone just faked it again, or if there was actually an abduction where they were "probed" and an incision wound was left...

again this is something i dont understand, if an alien species is so advanced that they are able to travel from other galaxies (i truly hope you understand how FAR galaxies are from one another) in less than a lifetime, and are able to "visit earth" without ever attempting to comunicate with us, and able to abduct someone without them remembering anything that happened (able to erase memory apparently)... why would they not have medical technology which could remove scars from "probings"

and I living in New Mexico (Roswell) have NEVER seen anything which i took to be a UFO (as in i could identify wtf it was)

on a side note: i think UFO's (the "alien" ones, not something you dont know wtf it is)  are just a time machine from our own future civilazation, explaning why we would not comunicate with a civilazation we are apparently so facinated with we visit them regularly... why we would possibly be "probing" people... looking for answers to certain medical issues, hence why only certain people are picked "often" and not just everyone.  And it would explane the traveling a great distance in less than a lifetime... there wouldnt be any traveling!

just my thoughts,

~slappy

[Acriku]

If anybody wants a good lesson on ghosts and UFO abductions, check out the according episodes of "Bullshit!" with Penn Jilette and Teller. I bought the DVD and it's great. I learned quite a bit from their humor and antics.

[SurlyPIG]

I can actually explain the TV stuff that's in the link.

[Dude_Doc]

Yeah, talk about ghost in the machine...

[Procyon]

I`m sceptical and the only strange thing I believe are ghosts, because I have seen ghost twice during my life.

The first time: I was 5 or so years old. I woke up in the middle of the night and I saw a black skeleton standing in the front of the door. I screamed and that thing "moved". I was sleeping with my sister in the same room, but she didn`t woke up. Later my dad came into our room.

Today my mother says that I was with fever that night, but I don`t remember that I was ill, because I went to school the next morning and told it to my family.

The second time: 8 or 9 years old. I and my family were in vacations in a beach house, that belongs to my father`s cousin. During a night I woke up with no apparent reason, and I saw a ghost. I recognized her as the sister of my grandma (mother of my father's cousin), who died time before in a car accident. When I saw her, she was wearing white clothes, was shining and was floating, seeing to the floor. I didn`t screamed or move and I saw her during few seconds, but she didn`t saw me, just the floor; I just covered me and then I "think" I waited to fell asleep. I had never told this experience, until last month, when I told this to my family.

Probably those were just my imagination, but I remember them good as they were real. They are fresh in my memory.