Why must Jesus be a white man?

[lowzeewee]

lots of things happen that are unexplainable... (miracles?)

people having tumours disappear..

people diagnosed to die in 3 months live on for years....

people who are diagnosed as never walking again.... start walking again....

many things

[GUNWOUNDS]

Where is the evidence that the "healed/cured" people were actually "cured/healed" at all?Maybe it's just some tales?

i dont want to stray off into this topic because i am no expert on miracles ... but the vatican records these types of events.... interviews the surgeons, doctors, patients, etc, and then documents it as a miracle after stringent analysis of the event.

however i am not catholic so you would have to ask a catholic for further details.

[lowzeewee]

Can I ask a methodist or protestant?

My school is a methodist one and they talk of miracles Jesus perform and when I asked the school chaplin about it, she only said "The bible says so" and when I ask how it can't be lies, she claims that "You just have to believe it as people have seen it" and I am like-> ???

[Acriku]

i dont want to stray off into this topic because i am no expert on miracles ... but the vatican records these types of events.... interviews the surgeons, doctors, patients, etc, and then documents it as a miracle after stringent analysis of the event.

however i am not catholic so you would have to ask a catholic for further details.

What! You trust the Vatican?! Please do not succumb to their attempt to appeal to the skeptical by claiming they "analyzed" the data and concluded that it was a miracle. Give it out to the scientific community around the world, give it out for peer review. Something no miracle has ever been through. Which reminds me of Randi's $1 Million challenge:

http://randi.org/research/index.html

Which sets any paranormal participant to have him/herself analyzed scientifically and objectively to prove their paranormality.

To date, no one has ever passed the preliminary tests.

Perhaps a new thread is in order GUNWOUNDS?

[emprworm]

what is a miracle?

[GUNWOUNDS]

what is a miracle?

good question

i would say if a doctor diagnosed me with an inoperable terminal brain tumour

[Barbarossa]

good question

i would say if a doctor diagnosed me with an inoperable terminal brain tumour

[Wolf]

So what if no one has even passed the preliminary tests? If you create a test with the intent to "fail" a certain belief, then you will achieve that -- it will not mean anything, however. It is very likely that, beyond biases, people who volunteer for the test must meet such criteria that precludes their being seen as "successful" by the experimenters.

[Acriku]

So what if no one has even passed the preliminary tests? If you create a test with the intent to "fail" a certain belief, then you will achieve that -- it will not mean anything, however. It is very likely that, beyond biases, people who volunteer for the test must meet such criteria that precludes their being seen as "successful" by the experimenters.

This challenge is not set out to fail a belief, it's set out to give any paranormal participant a chance to prove their paranormality - with a huge incentive of a million dollars. Would you like to point out the criteria that preclues their being seen as successful? Or are you ranting on about what you do not understand?

[GUNWOUNDS]

You should also take into consideration that even if a "Supreme Being" Existed, for what reason would it have for taking interest in something to which would appear to be an ant to one soooo "Powerful" the way most talk about a creator say that it sees and knows all, Soooo if this "Thing" can see all wouldn

[Dunenewt]

Just out of interest, what's this got to do with the title of the thread?

[otheymzefedaykin]

I ask myself : what does it makes if Jesus was an Arab ? Or Mo

[Wolf]

Ahh, ranting about what I do not understand? I find it extremely distasteful when I try to make a well-intentioned point free of insult and I am returned in kind with tenacity. I think it says more about you than it does me. Acriku, even the name of the contest is a form of preculsion; a religious believer does not consider their belief a paranormality.

*EDIT: Furthermore, it was not really my intent to poo-poo the test, but rather to point out a possibility. It may or may not hold true, but I will announce here that I now suspect it does. Besides, how could I find an unbiased account of this test without researching other sources than the test-takers themselves? I will require time, Acriku, to make a post that fits your criteria of non-rant, but, I am still allowed to state premonition, am I not?

[GUNWOUNDS]

Acriku, even the name of the contest is a form of preculsion; a religious believer does not consider their belief a paranormality.

yes good observation...

As evidenced by my previous post ....where i gave examples of miracles that were not paranormal.

however the dictionary definition of a miracle is something that is supernatural ....or... a normal event caused by a supernatural being.

so the special paranormal test would never be able to validate the latter..... sort of like my examples i gave in my previous post .... the examples of what i considered to be a miracle were perfectly able to be explained by science... so this million dollar test is useless in that context.....as it only applies to half of the possible scenarios.

[SurlyPIG]

I find the notion of miracles frightening and a little offensive because of what they imply, which is that God interferes in the affairs of humanity.

Lets say someone with a terminal brain tumor suddenly has that tumor vanish and in its place there is normal brain tissue.  Am I correct in assuming that would be generally accepted as a miracle?  As divine intervention?  An act of God?

Does that not imply that everyone who dies of a similar tumor does so with God choosing not to intervene?  Does that not mean that they die with God's approval?

And this kind of miracle begs the question if God had the power to remove the tumor, does he not have the power to prevent it from emerging in the first place?

I believe in religion's ability to be a source of strength for many people, but I flat out deny that miracles occur.  What most would call a miracle I generally call either extreme luck, misdiagnosis, or the currently unexplainable.  The ancient Greeks had no natural explanation for lightning, thus it was a miracle; the rage of Zeus.  Let's not repeat the absurdities of the past.  Miracle is a heavy, heavy word.  I think it's thrown around far too much nowadays.

[Wolf]

While not as extreme as ACE, I think he brings up a good point. If miracles happened, would that not be proof enough that God existed, thus making belief in him not faith, but acceptance of a fact?

Think of the following example. A mighty King, every day, walks throughout his kingdom and meets his people. The people, in turn, smile, and lavish praises, and are generally nice to the King. One day, the King wants to go out in a beggar's robe, just to see how the people would treat him. I think he would get quite a different response. I think that God would rather have us treat all people like we would treat a King, or God. Miracles, on the other hand, is much like the King himself riding into town on his noble steed.

However, I still like the idea of a "miracle", whereby individuals perform miraculous deeds or when miraculous things happen. Its not necessarily God, although it could be faith in him, perhaps? A matter of taste, maybe?

[GUNWOUNDS]

While not as extreme as ACE, I think he brings up a good point. If miracles happened, would that not be proof enough that God existed, thus making belief in him not faith, but acceptance of a fact?

not necessarily... Jesus performed many miracles... but you dont see everyone in the world accepting God based on fact instead of faith do you?

Thus your assumption that miracles destroy faith is not true.... because no miracle has or can be witnessed by everyone in the world at the same place and at the same time.

plus add on top of that..... the fact that a miracle is a one time event... meaning only people of one time period can see it.

so a miracle that happens in one place at one time period in history is not going to destroy anyone's faith especially if people are skeptical.

and if God could remove a tumour... why not prevent it from forming?.... perhaps because that person could give a testimony to strengthen other people's faith?

and if someone dies from a tumour does that mean they died with God's approval?....... yes i would suppose so ... i imagine that everyone has a fate.....

.............. maybe your fate is to die from a brain tumour....maybe my fate is to get a brain tumour and have it healed then give a testimony and then die of a heart attack.

just because God saved someone from a brain tumour doesnt mean they arent gonna die from something else... so i dont see how you are getting upset about "preferential treatment"

[Emperor Harkonnen]

I dunno if it has been said before, but Jesus acctually had white hair. It says in the Bible in the last book in the new testament, dunno the name for it in english. Sorry that I cannot quote, because I have no idea how it is in english.

"Der ser jeg en menneskes

[Acriku]

Ahh, ranting about what I do not understand? I find it extremely distasteful when I try to make a well-intentioned point free of insult and I am returned in kind with tenacity. I think it says more about you than it does me.

You asserted something without backing up, how can I not conclude that you are ranting about something you do not understand? It is your fault for not including an explanation.

Acriku, even the name of the contest is a form of preculsion; a religious believer does not consider their belief a paranormality.

What is a paranormality? It is something that is surrounding the normal, in other words outside the normal. I think anyone would agree that pyrotelekenesis or any other power is outside of the normal. What would you have it called? Normality? Of course not.

*EDIT: Furthermore, it was not really my intent to poo-poo the test, but rather to point out a possibility. It may or may not hold true, but I will announce here that I now suspect it does. Besides, how could I find an unbiased account of this test without researching other sources than the test-takers themselves? I will require time, Acriku, to make a post that fits your criteria of non-rant, but, I am still allowed to state premonition, am I not?

If you explain yourself, then I won't think you're ranting.

[Wolf]

Acriku, define "explain yourself". I, personally, think that my statement was quite clear, and I do not feel that an individual needs to put up a disclaimer saying that "This is my opinion, it may or may not be suported by fact" every time they post.

The fact is that I made a well-intentioned post which had neither the length nor the inflammatory language to even be considered a rant in the first place which was returned with an accusation disgusts me. Do not try to justify yourself, Acriku, it only makes things more embarassing.

Personally, I feel that what I said was pretty well-explained and understandable -- the fact that you 1) disagree with it, and 2) would like to disprove it very much (to explain myself here, I think that you're scathing and accusatory reply is enough evidence for me to conclude that you are oh-so very concerned about what I was saying) are not my fault.

Furthermore, your last comment is interesting. So, any post that does not explain itself is a rant? Interesting.

Lastly, regardless of what the definition of paranormality is, the fact that religious believers find that that word has 1) a negative connotation, and 2) implications that they do not support, the test is -- inherently -- prejudiced against those it wishes to test.

To quote from Star Trek VI; "Human rights? The very term is racst."

[SurlyPIG]

not necessarily... Jesus performed many miracles... but you dont see everyone in the world accepting God based on fact instead of faith do you?

But would ANYONE have accepted Jesus if he didn't perform miracles?  Call me a pessimist but I say no chance.  Assuming he performed miracles and was still executed, imagine what people would have thought of or done to him if he never backed up his claim of being the son of God.

Thus your assumption that miracles destroy faith is not true.... because no miracle has or can be witnessed by everyone in the world at the same place and at the same time.

But one can easily see that miracles (Jesus' included), whenever accepted by the believer, certainly cheapen faith.

and if God could remove a tumour... why not prevent it from forming?.... perhaps because that person could give a testimony to strengthen other people's faith?

That would mean that every event, every minute detail of life, from ant fights to deaths, has a designed purpose.  Call me a pessimest, but that's insane.  To suggest that some of the meaningless crap that goes on in this world is part of a larger design I would think is actually quite insulting to God.

and if someone dies from a tumour does that mean they died with God's approval?....... yes i would suppose so ... i imagine that everyone has a fate.....

.............. maybe your fate is to die from a brain tumour....maybe my fate is to get a brain tumour and have it healed then give a testimony and then die of a heart attack.

Then there is no free will, at least in no real sense.  We may have choices but if all the choices are rigged, then we're not living, we aren't even playing a game, we're acting out a skit.

just because God saved someone from a brain tumour doesnt mean they arent gonna die from something else... so i dont see how you are getting upset about "preferential treatment"  .... seems silly to get huffy over split hairs.

So what if they're going to die because of something else?  That's like a serial killer justifying his actions by saying that his victims were going to die anyway.  And would you find it "silly to get huffy over slpit hairs" if it was your wife who was purposely ignored by God not saved from the likes of the brain tumor?

Also....I would say parting the Red Sea, virgin birth,  bringing people back from the dead, walking on water, and multipling fish and loaves are still considered miracles even today....

hardly comparable to "greeks not knowing what lightening was"

Doctors and paramedics can resuscitate people up to some time after they died.  Does that mean the fact those people lived was a miracle?  Not unless you consider good medicine to be a miracle, in which case I would advise you to invest in some better health insurance.

And yes ...extreme luck, misdiagnosis, or the currently unexplainable most certainly exist and these are fine adjectives.... however..... we have no idea how the metaphysical realm affects  "extreme luck", "misdiagnosis" or the "currently unexplainable" ....

You speak of the metaphysical realm as if we actually know it even exists!  From a no-assumption perspective, there is no such evidence of a metaphysical realm affecting our world, thus no evidence that one exists, but I digress.

and you are treading very close to semantics breakdown.... because if someone is saved by divine intervention..... then i would say he was both blessed by a miracle  AND  "extremely lucky" (to have been smiled upon by God).  lets try to stay away from semantics breakdown or else this whole argument will collapse.

Very well, make it extreme natural luck.  If the probability of landing in a bail of hay when falling out of a small airplane is one in five thousand, does it mean that the one in five thousand people that falls out of a plane into a bail of hay and lives was a miracle?  No, because it was completely possible in nature that it could happen.  Now if someone were to fall out of a plane and begin levitating to the ground, that would be miraculous.  If enough people fall out of planes, one of them will eventually fall into a bail of hay.  This is what I mean by extreme natural luck.

[Acriku]

Acriku, define "explain yourself". I, personally, think that my statement was quite clear, and I do not feel that an individual needs to put up a disclaimer saying that "This is my opinion, it may or may not be suported by fact" every time they post.

Of course not, but if you are going to complain about something without backing it up, it just looks like your basic rant. A short rant, but to me it is still a rant.

The fact is that I made a well-intentioned post which had neither the length nor the inflammatory language to even be considered a rant in the first place which was returned with an accusation disgusts me. Do not try to justify yourself, Acriku, it only makes things more embarassing.

Heh, please. You've gone way beyond 'well-intentioned' to merely spiteful posting. Your first post did not seem well-intentioned to me, as it was just complaining with no support whatsoever.

[Ninja_Sher]

It does not matter whether our prophet is black,white,red,brown,tropical,desertan or anything else. As long as he is the representative of almighty and speaks against stupid color classifications ( racism ), and speaks to save souls, he is a prophet.

[Acriku]

It does not matter whether our prophet is black,white,red,brown,tropical,desertan or anything else. As long as he is the representative of almighty and speaks against stupid color classifications ( racism ), and speaks to save souls, he is a prophet.

It is interesting however, to see the God-incarnate pick a skin color, and wonder why he picked it. However, back then it was more stream-lined and probably picked it just to fit in with the society he was born in.

[Ninja_Sher]

It is interesting however, to see the God-incarnate pick a skin color, and wonder why he picked it. However, back then it was more stream-lined and probably picked it just to fit in with the society he was born in.

Actually a prophet was sent when he was needed and where he was needed most as the native of that place.