Emprworm's rant thread

[nemafakei]

"Boooks...books...books.....

Anyone can write a nice lil' book for humanity.  And thats where it stays...in some dust covered book"

Ah, what an intellectual with whose presence we are honoured here in Fed2k.

"Plenty of people are starving to death, however, in socialist countries"

Interesting: could you name some?

[Anathema]

Capitalism is worthless if a democratic republic does not exist with it.

You're saying that the UK, Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain and ever other constitutional monarchy out there is worth dirt?

[emprworm]

You're saying that the UK, Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain and ever other constitutional monarchy out there is worth dirt?

no, but their capitalism is

[Dante]

All capitalism is.

[emprworm]

All capitalism is.

you have proof for that?  or is this just one of your 'amoral' opinions?

[Edric O]

Those who live in capistalitic republic democracies have the best standards of living on earth.  The reason?  It works.

You mean Sweden, Norway, Britain, Spain, Denmark, etc. are republics? And India, Brazil, Indonesia, etc. are not? ::)

This is Emprworm's pathetic attempt to cover his defeat and utter lack of counter-arguments. What he is doing, in case you haven't noticed, is saying "If a country isn't prosperous, then it's not a democratic republic. Therefore only democratic republics are prosperous."

The fact is that the world's richest AND the world's poorest countries are democracies. It's not the system of government that makes the difference between them - it's the ECONOMY. The rich countries have mixed economies with heavy socialist influences. The poor ones have pure capitalism.

And India is not a democratic republic.

How is India not a democratic republic, exactly? Indian democracy is a shining model of a fair and stable representative democracy.

The same goes for Brazil. And nearly all the rest of South America. And Eastern Europe. And so on.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: One billion people are suffering from hunger under capitalism.

And although some of those capitalist systems are dictatorships, the vast majority are democracies. You see, democracy provides no protection from the brutality and injustice of capitalism. The reason why you don't feel those things in America and Western Europe is not because your government is democratic, but because you have a mixed economy with a heavy socialist influence.

Again I ask you: Do you know what life was like for the average worker living in your capitalist democracy in the 19th century?

Before you introduced socialist elements into your economy, your poor were just as miserable and hungry as those of India are today.

Plenty of people are starving to death, however, in socialist countries.

WHAT SOCIALIST COUNTRIES?

In order for a country to be socialist, it needs three things:

1. A planned economy (i.e. public ownership over the means of production)

2. A democratic state (i.e. the state must be the tool of the people)

3. Certain basic standards of living (food, drinking water, housing, healthcare and education) guaranteed freely and equally to all citizens.

Can you show me one country in the world today which meets those criteria?

[alchemi2]

So USA is best place in world to live?

No Poverty

No Crime

No Injustice

No Hunger

No Unemployment

No wonder everyone wants to go there! and the best leader in the world too. ;)

Glad i live in England at least we know we got problems.

[Dude_Doc]

No Crime

I don't think there are any countries without crime.

[Edric O]

Oh, there is plenty of poverty and hunger in the USA - just less visible (and affecting a smaller percentage of the population) than elsewhere:

Hunger and poverty facts for the USA

[filecore]

WHAT SOCIALIST COUNTRIES?

In order for a country to be socialist, it needs three things:

1. A planned economy (i.e. public ownership over the means of production)

2. A democratic state (i.e. the state must be the tool of the people)

3. Certain basic standards of living (food, drinking water, housing, healthcare and education) guaranteed freely and equally to all citizens.

Can you show me one country in the world today which meets those criteria?

http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/pr/2000/pr0037.htm

Ah how idealistic we all were back then... so once the developed nations have eliminated greed, aggression, famine, war, jealousy, injustice, and human nature, the UN will have met its goal and eradicated poverty, worldwide.

My point being, that I think we have the abillity but not the will to do these things.  Although in some cases (like the UN, above) it is the will but not the ability. What I don't see is where the two can coincide - are there any true altruists left in the world (individual or collective)?

[emprworm]

Oh, there is plenty of poverty and hunger in the USA - just less visible (and affecting a smaller percentage of the population) than elsewhere:

Hunger and poverty facts for the USA

lol!

[GUNWOUNDS]

lol!

[alchemi2]

oh excuse me forgot to add the word sarcasm in the previuos post. thought everyone on PRP was quick witted enough to pick it up but obviously not. :-[ ;)

[Edric O]

Nice anecdotes you have there, Emprworm and Gunwounds. "I haven't seen any starving people in the US, so therefore they don't exist". Or "yeah, I used to be poor, but it wasn't so bad - and obviously no one could POSSIBLY have it worse than me".

Well I'm sorry, but gross generalizations and anecdotes don't belong in a serious political discussion. You'd better support your statements with something more than your contempt and hatred for the poor.

Most homeless people in America are that way because they choose to live a life of drug addiction, prostitution, etc.

And do you have any proof of that, or is it just your usual conservative elitism and uncontrolled hatred for anyone less fortunate than yourself?

When young women get beaten up by thugs, when they are forced into prostitution and treated like animals, is that when they "choose" a life of misery? When a 8 year-old boy trusts a stranger and the stranger gives him a dose of some drug, turning him into an addict, is that when the boy "chooses" to throw away his life?

When children are born into a poor, miserable neighborhood, and when they are beaten and mistreated by their parents and forced to serve gang lords, is that when the children "choose" to be poor, homeless and hungry? Is that when they earn your hatred?

Homeless people in the US do not care about going to school or finding job.  Any bum off the street could get a job in McDonalds.

Really? You mean ALL of them could get jobs at McDonald's? Every single one? Wow, I didn't know McDonald's was in desperate need of a few hundred thousand new employees... ::)

Or perhaps you mean that perhaps one of two of them could get a job at McDonald's, if they're lucky?

The idea that ANYONE can find a job if he just wants it bad enough is a typical conservative excuse for humiliating and mistreating the poor. Conservatives do not bother to look at unemployment figures and realize that if there were enough jobs for everyone, America would not have millions of unemployed.

And anyone who knows rudimentary economics will tell you that capitalism REQUIRES a certain degree of unemployment. Full employment is not possible under capitalism, not even in theory. So the idea that the unemployed and the homeless are in that position because of their own choices is nothing more than conservative hogwash.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Nice anecdotes you have there, Emprworm and Gunwounds. "I haven't seen any starving people in the US, so therefore they don't exist". Or "yeah, I used to be poor, but it wasn't so bad - and obviously no one could POSSIBLY have it worse than me".

Well I'm sorry, but gross generalizations and anecdotes don't belong in a serious political discussion. You'd better support your statements with something more than your contempt and hatred for the poor.

And do you have any proof of that, or is it just your usual conservative elitism and uncontrolled hatred for anyone less fortunate than yourself?

When young women get beaten up by thugs, when they are forced into prostitution and treated like animals, is that when they "choose" a life of misery? When a 8 year-old boy trusts a stranger and the stranger gives him a dose of some drug, turning him into an addict, is that when the boy "chooses" to throw away his life?

When children are born into a poor, miserable neighborhood, and when they are beaten and mistreated by their parents and forced to serve gang lords, is that when the children "choose" to be poor, homeless and hungry? Is that when they earn your hatred?

Really? You mean ALL of them could get jobs at McDonald's? Every single one? Wow, I didn't know McDonald's was in desperate need of a few hundred thousand new employees... ::)

Or perhaps you mean that perhaps one of two of them could get a job at McDonald's, if they're lucky?

The idea that ANYONE can find a job if he just wants it bad enough is a typical conservative excuse for humiliating and mistreating the poor. Conservatives do not bother to look at unemployment figures and realize that if there were enough jobs for everyone, America would not have millions of unemployed.

And anyone who knows rudimentary economics will tell you that capitalism REQUIRES a certain degree of unemployment. Full employment is not possible under capitalism, not even in theory. So the idea that the unemployed and the homeless are in that position because of their own choices is nothing more than conservative hogwash.

100% pure bullshit.....

sorry Edrico but you are COMPLETELY WRONG.... there is no reason for anyone to be jobless or homeless in America... if its not McDonalds.... then its tons of other places....

Dont try to tell me they are helpless due to Capitalism....

AND YOU KNOW WHAT?..... just because you are poor in America ... THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE CONDEMNED TO WORK A SHITTY JOB.....

READ BELOW

you can do the following....

- get good grades... (public school is free)

- get good enough grades for scholarship to college

[VigilVirus]

There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

It's the first thing you learn in capitalistic economics. There's always a catch to anything that's "free".

It's like those free medical doctor education loans - they pay for your education, but you'll have to work 5 years in some crappy rural area treating cows for little money.

[GUNWOUNDS]

There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

It's the first thing you learn in capitalistic economics. There's always a catch to anything that's "free".

It's like those free medical doctor education loans - they pay for your education, but you'll have to work 5 years in some crappy rural area treating cows for little money.

everything i said was free is free....

[TMA_1]

gunwounds, you are way too idealistic. You think that if you make the grade, and work hard you will not fail in america, duh that is totally wrong.

My dad has a masters in classical studies, and my mom a bachelors in human services. They are both intelligent and hard working people.

my sister was born though with many handicapps. It hit us financially and because we had to run to the hospital and back with stays that lasted up for a couple of months, we could no be stable. We relied on government support. My parents couldnt get stable jobs because of these problems, and whats worse is my dad has severe aurthritis and soon will have to be put in a wheel chair. It isnt easy to get a job in many of these cases, and we have never had any luck. My parents were so desperate as to go to "labor ready", a company that hires blue collar labor by the day... really sad but it paid the bills. Not everybody is lucky, and not all poor people are uneducated jerks. Many of us try so hard and slip through the cracks, that istn our fault.

[Edric O]

Gunwounds just shows how much truth there is behind the story of the little red hen. If you read the story, you'd know the part about the barnyard animals who ask why they should be supporting the "freeloaders", oblivious to the fact that the little red hen created the problem in the first place.

Gunwounds, if you think the poor are doing just fine, then you obviously have no idea what it means to be poor. All those "freebies" they get are necessary so that they won't starve to death. The healthcare is necessary so they don't die from easily preventable diseases and the education is necessary so they're not 100% condemned to a life of misery and poverty.

Why exactly are you COMPLAINING that the poor can get the same education as you do? Do you expect special treatment because your daddy is rich?

Oh, and by the way, I'm glad you admit that the only reason the poor stand any chance of a decent life is because of the "evil" SOCIALIST elements of the American system.

Without free education and welfare, they would be starving to death (since they would have no means to support themselves and no way to get a better job even if they wanted to).

[GUNWOUNDS]

Without free education and welfare, they would be starving to death (since they would have no means to support themselves and no way to get a better job even if they wanted to).

i was complaining because it seemed in your other posts that you were denying the fact that they received these items.... saying it was "hopeless" for poor people in America...

I wanted to make damn sure you knew that due to all these freebies the poor can actually determine their destiny with some

[Edric O]

But the main point is that there are not nearly enough jobs for EVERY single unemployed or homeless person.

Even if SOME of the unemployed or homeless could find jobs, the fact remains that the REST OF THEM couldn't.

Capitalism does not allow for full employment.

The idea that ANYONE could find a job if he just tried hard enough is idiotic conservative drivel, because there are only enough jobs to accomodate A TINY FRACTION of the unemployed.

[GUNWOUNDS]

But the main point is that there are not nearly enough jobs for EVERY single unemployed or homeless person.

Even if SOME of the unemployed or homeless could find jobs, the fact remains that the REST OF THEM couldn't.

Capitalism does not allow for full employment.

The idea that ANYONE could find a job if he just tried hard enough is idiotic conservative drivel, because there are only enough jobs to accomodate A TINY FRACTION of the unemployed.

show me the statistics of......

[GUNWOUNDS]

here we go .... at the american job bank website there are 1,224,984 available... and they get approx 35,000 new jobs in their database every DAY.....

and this is just one ONLINE site!

there are

1.) newpaper ads for jobs

2.) other online websites

3.) internships

4.) facilities that have a "hiring now" sign

5.) co-op work programs

6.) word of mouth

7.) On call work programs for blue collar labor

8.) many more.

When you add up all the different jobs from across the 50 states that are listed online, in print, or through all the other various programs... the number of jobs becomes astronomical...

add to that.... this website is getting 35,000 new jobs added to their listings every day.....

Sorry Edrico but there are plenty of jobs.... blue collar or white collar... that one could get.... so dont sit there and tell me there isnt anything they can do

and dont tell me that capitalism doesnt allow for full employment....

[TMA_1]

its not as bad as edric says it is gunwounds? have you been poor?lol

Try going ot the foodbank and salvation army to get your food.

try getting gifts from poor houses because you cant afford anything else.

try having to pay with foodstamps and people looking down on you and even calling you names while buying food.

try having to be called a freeloader and being harrassed.

try having to worry about if you will be living ina shelter the next month.

try the feeling of being happy over having a simple hamburger the first time in months.

it is hard, and a LOT of people had it harder than me and my fam as a kid, a lot harder, but that was hard for us as is.

THankfully we are doing much better, we could afford a computer and cable tv, some pleasures that are neat to have. We even have some old gaming systems which is neat.

stop speaking from a point of ignorance gunwounds, though I disagree a lot with edric, he does care and try to understand those who are the "have nots", partially because he and his family have been one of them, if I remmeber right edric you have told me that.

it is hard to live, and the "freebies" you mention arent always there for use, and the freebies have no selection if you even get those freebies, the poor are punished by the rich, people who have things think that somehow the poor are at fault, and that is not always the case, it is just sad.

[otheymzefedaykin]

I'm so tired ! Emprworm : shut up ! It's better than ! :D

I'm joking of course !

But I'm really tired of him !