Question of LOTR and other matters

[TMA_1]

I am now reading lord of the rings, I am on the 4th book in two towers, and it is an excellent series, dont know why I waited so long to read them. Have a few questions to any out there who know the series.

One is with Grima. Notice that Theodin is very weak, and is obviously deminished not only physically, but something magical is afoot that is against theodin. Still though there is a mention of "leechcraft". This is an old term for blood letting. Many ancient cultures practiced it, it goes back in documentation as far as ancient greece and even further. I am wondering, though it says that theodin was being tricked, and his will taken from him by the "whispering" of grima, could grima have also been slowly letting out the blood of theodin, as this was a valid medical practice in ancient times, and maybe was in LOTR universe. This would lead one to be very weak and tired all the time if blood was constantly let out, and even suseptable to suggestion. Could this be possible?

Also, it mentions much that at the dawn of time it talks about "elf children". When they first sprang, were they children? I havent read anything else so pardon me on my ignorance on the matter, but I plan on reading everything, including the other books like History of middle earth and the silmarillion.

I have only yet read The HObbit, Fellowship, and now almost finishd with Two towers. I have other questions but Ill wait for these to be answered.

[Caid Ivik]

That's very possible, tough the movie rather spoiled such idea. Letting the veins free is an old folk medicine, practized over whole Europe's village culture. Today not as much of course. It worked minimally, however. People believed that if they open the veins, their illness will flow out with blood. This thing wasn't abolished very long time before, when I was younger I remember some doctors saying they will let my blood off if everything else fails. I hope they were just joking  ;D

Elves were all children, they just can control the process of body development. I think they mature when they want.

Also I have my own question. For Melkor's sake, what's the name of witch king of Angmar, leader of Nazguls?

[The_Sadukar]

As far as I know, the witchking's real name is long forgotten, it is (as far as I can recall) never mentioned in the Lord of the Rings or in the Silmilarilion

[Tezcatlipoca]

"One is with Grima...mention of "leechcraft"...Could this be possible?"

-If you're reading the books (and paying good attention--something that many people don't do-- ;) ) then you've probably noticed that Tolkien makes *heavy* use of metaphors. He does this, obviously, in order to convey his message, which may be unnatural or cryptic to the reader, through a vehicle that the reader already is aware of and accepts.

I believe this is one of the situations, and this is how I perceive it: Wormtongue is being the vehicle/tool of Saruman's magic. Saruman remember is a master of persuasion. His main magical abilities lie in his ability to convince someone of an idea or emotion that they may not have ever considered. For example, he could easily turn an weak minded enemy into a loving devoted follower, using his magic. The body of course does what the mind tells it to do, and when aided by magic, we can suppose that it would be exaggerated, like in this situation of making Theoden almost PHYSICALLY older and feeble as well.

As a result, he uses this magic through Wormtongue, to manipulate Theoden. Wormtongue then becomes the perceived man behind the throne, getting his way on almost everything. Meanwhile, he constantly is convincing Theoden that he is old, weak, and feeble, and needs to rely on Wormtongue's reasoning abilities to make decisions.

In order to explain the situation, and what is happening to Theoden, which involves magical nuances that don

[Frodo]

I agree with tezcatlipoca.  i believe that tolkien's mentioning of leechcraft was strictly metephorical.  i think saruman was acting through wormtounge, and wormtounges persuasiveness became an influence over theoden.  if you need a connection, i guess you could almost compare it to rasputin and the czarina in precommunist russia, but more exhaggerated.  think of it like this i guess...

wormtounge and saruman put ideas into theodens head, and his mind struggles against his persuasiveness. as his mind tries to fight it, it begins to tire out his body, as his mind's energy is exhausted over their trechary, he is exhausting his body, making him weaker and weaker.  i believe in the movie they were just using his old appearence and his change to a younger appearence just to represent the tire and grip they put on theoden.  really, i do not believe he looked alot older, but moreover looked tired, and since he looked tired, he seemed older.  but really, i dk about the elves, that is a good question. also, the witch kings name is never mentioned i don't think.

[Caid Ivik]

Well, Rasputin had another influence on empress...  ::)

Thanks for that Dwimmerlaik, do you know where is it written? I read LoR books 2 and 3, Silmarillion and Unfinished Stories, and I wasn't aware of it. I thought it was Ar-Pharazon, but found out it would be mentioned more if it was so.

[Inoculator9]

You mean an affair between Rasputin and the Czarina?

Off topic yeah, but I'm a bit of a Rasputin buff.