Israel Misc.

[leo]

I think it's because of people like you that a lot of people hate US. Iran should be free to develop nukes...why the hell not? It's extremely hypocritical for US, the only countries that ever used nuclear weapons for the purposes of war, to tell others not to build them.

Oh, and the Axis of Evil thing...that's a really moronic concept.

 

If it was a country like US I wouldn

[VigilVirus]

Well, maybe I don't think Israel should have nuclear weapons. What's your point?

[leo]

Well, maybe I don't think Israel should have nuclear weapons. What's your point?

Israel doesn't support terror. Iran does.

[VigilVirus]

Israel doesn't need terror - they have the US technology to invade any of the poorly defended arab countries and kill many more people than anyone could ever kill in a terrorist act as a "response" to terror. Only problem is..they take over territory and then keep it - such as Jerusalem in the 6 days war..they were supposed to have only half of it I'm afraid, but they got it all.

[leo]

Israel doesn't need terror - they have the US technology to invade any of the poorly defended arab countries and kill many more people than anyone could ever kill in a terrorist act as a "response" to terror. Only problem is..they take over territory and then keep it - such as Jerusalem in the 6 days war..they were supposed to have only half of it I'm afraid, but they got it all.

I still don't understand what's the connection to Israel in this issue? We are talking about an extreme country that supports terror and followed by Muslim extremists, this country is going to have nuclear weapons. That is the subject of this topic. I speak as a citizen of the world, not as an Israeli.

If you want to discuss about how cruel the Israelis are towards the Arabic world you are free to open a thread about it.

P.S.

Just to mention, Israel developed nuclear weapons over 30 years ago when we were surrounded by the

[ordos45]

*chuckles* Perhaps you should read your history.

[ordos45]

Split from the Iran topic due to going in the direction of Israel rather than Iran.

[Caid Ivik]

Egyptian ruler Nasir did twice same provocation before Suez crisis and Six-day war. If he wouldn't send half of army to borders and then start to yell into media how they'll crush Israel, maybe the reaction wouldn't be as radical as it was. Iran in that time was, when compared, peaceful monarchy. However, times have changed now. Arab countries know that Israel has strength, so they start to accept it between themselves. Only Iran now feels like it forget the time...

[leo]

Egyptian ruler Nasir did twice same provocation before Suez crisis and Six-day war. If he wouldn't send half of army to borders and then start to yell into media how they'll crush Israel, maybe the reaction wouldn't be as radical as it was. Iran in that time was, when compared, peaceful monarchy. However, times have changed now. Arab countries know that Israel has strength, so they start to accept it between themselves. Only Iran now feels like it forget the time...

some1 will have to remind them. ;D

[VigilVirus]

My original point was - just because you personally prefer one country over another doesn't mean anything. I myself don't trust Israel any more than I do Iran.

[Caid Ivik]

If there would be an opened war between Israel and Iran, I would stay with Israel. It's not a thing of trust, it is thing that Israel is truly democratic and also much more civilized country. Iran is still in development, in both ways. You've seen elections, wons the party, which banished Israel even from giving them humanitarian aid adter that Bam earthquake.

[leo]

My original point was - just because you personally prefer one country over another doesn't mean anything. I myself don't trust Israel any more than I do Iran.

You are too blind my friend.

[VigilVirus]

You cannot judge that, since you are biased to the extreme. I'm not the blind one.

[leo]

The situation is actually reversed. All you know about what happens here is from the media; all you see is the

[TMA_1]

exactly Ordos, glad somebody cleared all this up for devils advocate.

Israel isnt exactly the most popular nation in the planet. It also doesnt help that all their neighbors are enemies who dispise them.

Israel is in constant defense of itself, I think it is arrogant to sit in a nice chair and type on a computer about how israel is undeserving of privilages that they rightfully earned. Iran is less than trustworthy, while israel has always at least tried to be peaceful, people seem to forget that.

[Caid Ivik]

Israel isn't popular because it is a jewish state. And Jews aren't popular because of many things. We can sum them all to a simple jeal. But when a slovak city elected a jewish richter it was because Slovaks did not bother to go voting...

[leo]

Israel isn't popular because it is a jewish state. And Jews aren't popular because of many things. We can sum them all to a simple jeal. But when a slovak city elected a jewish richter it was because Slovaks did not bother to go voting...

Unfortunately that

[Inoculator9]

It is, despite the fact that Israel has often proven itself politically mature. Not holding any of the territory it gained in most of it's wars for one. It seized an area several times the size of it's current nation, and gave it all back. Keeping half of Jerusalem really is not a shocker, considering it's the Jewish holy city (and that of others) to them it would have been insanity not to. Israel is one of the least expansionist countries in the world. Even though they are currently having difficulties, which is the fault of both the Israelis and Palestinians.

[leo]

It is, despite the fact that Israel has often proven itself politically mature. Not holding any of the territory it gained in most of it's wars for one. It seized an area several times the size of it's current nation, and gave it all back. Keeping half of Jerusalem really is not a shocker, considering it's the Jewish holy city (and that of others) to them it would have been insanity not to. Israel is one of the least expansionist countries in the world. Even though they are currently having difficulties, which is the fault of both the Israelis and Palestinians.

Just to mention, in Camp-David peace agreements Israel accepted to give back east Jerusalem, although it

[Inoculator9]

Did he agree to that? I honestly hadn't heard that. You'd think that would have been enough for Arafat if that is the case :P Honestly, Arafat is still an incompetent in my own estimation. But, being Jewish-come-atheist I could potentially be biased :P

[leo]

Did he agree to that? I honestly hadn't heard that. You'd think that would have been enough for Arafat if that is the case :P Honestly, Arafat is still an incompetent in my own estimation. But, being Jewish-come-atheist I could potentially be biased :P

LOL

Yes Prime Minister Barak offered him eastern Jerusalem, he offered to evacuate all the settlements and to give the Palestinians back 97% of the territories. He also offered to supply the Palestinians electricity and water in a very chip price, the price he offered was much chipper from what a regular Israeli citizen pays. He also offered a yearly economical help of millions of dollars. All we wanted in return is peace, nothing more, just that our children would be able to live in safety. Guess it wasn

[Anathema]

I guess that's what you get for negotiating with a terrorist- nothing. It's not as if Arafat and the like have any real desire to end this conflict anyway.

I'm not in full support of everything Israel has done, but I'm not going to tell anyone what they can or cannot do to defend themselves. What annoys me mostly is that some people condemn any action of Israel by default.

[Inoculator9]

I agree, Israel is essentially in a nightmarish PR situation. America hasn't dealt with revolts and terror attacks like that on their home territory (save 9/11, which we really flipped out about) and we don't understand the situation fully.

And leo, I believe Devil's Advocate said you were biased, lol ;) And I'm an atheist now (still Jewish technically since my mom was Jewish when I was born), so I've got more of a leg to stand on, lol ;D But since we seem to agree... lol ;)

And Barak offered it... Sharom wouldn't have gone along with it though.

[Caid Ivik]

It is, despite the fact that Israel has often proven itself politically mature. Not holding any of the territory it gained in most of it's wars for one. It seized an area several times the size of it's current nation, and gave it all back. Keeping half of Jerusalem really is not a shocker, considering it's the Jewish holy city (and that of others) to them it would have been insanity not to. Israel is one of the least expansionist countries in the world. Even though they are currently having difficulties, which is the fault of both the Israelis and Palestinians.

Expansion of Israel included only few politically strategic places. Do you know that Syrians begun a construction of a channel paralel to Jordan river, which would take water off Lake Genezaret? If hagana wouldn't take over Golan Heights, it would cause major water shortage not only in whole northern Israel, but also in filistine territory.

[leo]

I agree, Israel is essentially in a nightmarish PR situation. America hasn't dealt with revolts and terror attacks like that on their home territory (save 9/11, which we really flipped out about) and we don't understand the situation fully.

And leo, I believe Devil's Advocate said you were biased, lol ;) And I'm an atheist now (still Jewish technically since my mom was Jewish when I was born), so I've got more of a leg to stand on, lol ;D But since we seem to agree... lol ;)

And Barak offered it... Sharom wouldn't have gone along with it though.

The problem is that if Barak offered it, to have a peace agreement so the Palestinians will accept it Sharon