tobiasthecommie

I already have http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0000AISLP/202-0517468-1403841?v=glance&n=283926&s=gateway&v=glance And the barebone of the same edition of the movie on DVD. And a bad quality of the Alan Smithee movie on DVD(very grainy, even more barebone). So now i find out this has been released. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007PAMR4/ref=pe_ar_x1B0007PAMR4/103-6058697-0643859?n=130 I am not entirely sure if it has something i haven't already got. It has both versions of the movie(the Lynch version digitally remastered, the other version, i don't know). It has some extras that i believe is not on the version i have (they mention deleted scenes, and something about the 4 hour version being a rumor). Have anyone bought it and could give me a rundown on what is on it? Sincerely Tobias.

Possibly, it could also be a definit future, something that will happen, and the only way to survive that future, is through the golden path.. Actually, i can't see how it can be a *possible* future. Whether Omnious is out there or not should already be desided long before, the golden path wouldn't influence the machines existing out there. Agreed. That just meant she would survive the desert. Atleast in my book the quote is "He saw her accept her own nakedness the way Moneo had accepted it, with fear and hate. It was of little matter. He probed the time ahead of them. Yes, she would survive his desert because her tracks were in the sand beside him . . . but he saw no sign of her flesh in those tracks. Just beyond her tracks, though, he saw a sudden opening where things had been concealed. Anteac's death-shout echoed through his prescient awareness . . . and the swarming of Fish Speakers attacking!" Agreed, Ixians won't be able to (for whatever reason) do anything that makes thinking machines and enslave humanity again. What i was going at was that it was already out there, not that the Ixians would make them. I would have disagreed more before your post, but after reading it i see an assumption i have made. When reading the passages i posted in my prior post, i assumed that they were talking about the machines from the Butlerain Jihad. But yes, it could quite possibly be that The Golden Path merely made sure the Ixians wouldn't do it(as well as a lot of other things, of course). Personally, i'm not sure if FH meant the vision to be a vision of thinking machines from the Butlerain Jihad, or new ones from the Ixians, yes both are quite possible. Bareing that in mind, i opt to believe it was always the ones from the Butlerain Jihad, mostly because it is clear that thinking machines will be in the two new books, and doing that, i can convince myself that it builds on FH. That is similar to "Suspension of Disbelief", i know, but.. well, i opt to do that, atleast till i'm convinced that FH were talking about Ixians. Sincerely Tobias.

GEOD GEOD. While the second quote may not be literal, i think the first one is. I just stumpled over this after reading the two prequal series. That is, this time i was paying more attention to this stuff. Personally, i find both of the prequal series lacking, i can read them, but they are in no way FH Dune. But i believe, an opinion here, that Frank Herbert did intend to have the thinking machines come back(in some form or another) in book 7. I would much prefer a FH Dune 7 than the two books they are releasing, since i'm sure he would do a better job, but, i'll still get it and read it. Hell, i would even prefer the draft they found to their book. But i'm desperate, and i'll take what i can get. And i didn't find the prequals THAT horrible. Sincerely Tobias

Hmm, agreed, i made the assumption that the intro was by Frank Herbert. Anyone know if a statement was ever made one way or the other on this subject? Of course i could say "wha wha, you can't prove i'm wrong", but that is a fallacy, and i won't do that. I was working on the assumption that the intro was saw and heard from the Alan Smithee version was cannon. And in the intro we see drawings that are somewhat similar to Cymeks. Similar enough, especially considering Frank Herbert have made other stories with disembodied brains. And he did, in other novels. Agreed, that is what he writes in the books. But if we can consider the intro cannon, then he would indeed have created the IDEA of Cymeks. And he would have created the story where we startedd out being slaves of apathy, and then later became real slaves. Which is what the slides tell. As far as i know, all those drawings were preproduction. That is, it was storyboard. Thus, made with Frank Herberts knowledge, if not his consent. But, i would like someone to confirm this before i will stand by my claim that the IDEA behind Omnious and the Cymeks came from Frank Herbert. Please note, i didn't say implementation, i said idea. When i made the original post i made it on the assumption that the drawings(and the voice over that was with it) was created as part of the storyboard. With concent, and input, from Frank Herbert. If that is NOT the case, then i'll admit that i was wrong. Anyone who can confirm/deny whether my assumption is correct or not? Sincerely Tobias

agreed

Actually, it says. "The universe was ruled by thinking machines, with human minds." Though the art shows humans with robot servants. Those two don't necesarilly conflict to begin with. I can't really remember Legends of Dune so well right now. But i believed it also started like that. Humans with robot servants, the humans started doing less and less, and in the end handed it all over to a thinking machine(Omnious), and at some point down the road, humans realized they were, or they became, slaves of the their creation. Which doens't conflict with either picture or story from the intro. And i actually think it is consistent with both. Especially considering the art and the voice over is a bit contradictory. Now, i like the idea behind it, the depiction in Legends of Dune was lacking. But the idea is ok. From other books he did (Destination: Void) we see something like Cymeks(disconnected brains atleast), so i'm pretty sure(as much as i can be) that the concept was his. But yes, the depiction(Now that is most likely all Brian and Kevin's fault) is not very good, and like star wars. Now, granted, that isn't exactly what was in Legends of Dune. But i don't feel the blame for Cymeks should be on Brian or Kevin. Maybe the depiction of them, but not the concept of Cymeks.

Warning, a few spoilers if you haven't read all the books, + prequals, nothing major though. I've been reading a few old threads, and instead of posting to a 1 year old thread, i thoguht i would just start a new one. When talking about Legends Of Dune, people often complain about how much Brian and Kevin have destroyed the legacy of the Dune universe. And granted, while i did enjoy the series, it wasn't Dune, not by a long shot. A complaint i just read, was the idea of Cymeks being an abomination created by Brian and Kevin. And how bringing Omnious and all into Book 7(and 8) was surely not what Frank Herbert had in mind. Well, while reading this, i was watching the Extended Edition of Dune, Lynch version. Or rather, Alan Smithee. This version starts with a 10 minute introduction, with art work(pre production sketches) and a voice over. Since Frank Herbert were still alive when this movie was created, and was on the set, i will consider this introduction cannon(even if the movie has weirding modules). Lets see what it says. "In the year 6041. Before the reign of the Padisha Emperors. The universe was ruled by thinking machines, with human minds. Computers and concious robots. The people deteriorated till a state of apathy. Then they became victims of other men with machines. Finally came the great revolt. The religious crusade against the machines. After the great revolt, human beings were forced to develop their minds. Thus mental training schools were established. These schools would change the history of the universe. Only two of these ancient mental training schools remain...."(continues on, but not related) Now, granted, that isn't exactly what they did with Legends of Dune. But since none of this was written in stone, i can accept a few changes. But the important point here, i fell, is that Frank Herbert most likely wrote this back story for the film, I don't think it was the brain child of David Lynch. "The universe was ruled by thinking machines, with human minds." Isn't that exactly what the cymeks are? "Computers" Omnious. "Concious robots" Erasmus. "Then they became victims of other men with machines." Might just mean other men controlling machines, but considering the entire paragraph, it is most likely the "thinking machines, with human minds.", that is, Cymeks. Now, granted, that isn't exactly what was in Legends of Dune. But i don't feel the blame for Cymeks should be on Brian or Kevin. Maybe the depiction of them, but not the concept of Cymeks. Omnious wasn't directly mentioned by this preface to the movie, granted, but the seeds were there. Note: I don't consider any of the prequals completely cannon, and i don't condone everything they have done. But i don't think we can blame them for everything we don't like in the Dune universe. And Cymeks were, in my opinion, clearly a product of Frank Herbert, not Brian. Omnious and Erasmus may have been too broad extrapolations of what Frank Herbert meant, there is no way to know without looking at his drafts, sketches or notes. But, considering the almost complete Dune 7 that was found, Omnious and Erasmus may very well have been in there(atleast if they are in it when Brian and Kevin at long last release it). In which case they can't be blamed for the concept of it. Also, just because they totally destroyed it with Legends of Dune. There is a possiblity, though i'm not having great hopes, that it really does hold water in Dune 7(+8). Sincerely Tobias

I'm having a problem, i usually trust people, but oh i so want this to be a troll. :(

Well, it says new extras. But considering it is hollywood, i fear they just mean the extras from: Lynch's Dune Special Edition DVD http://www.dune2k.com/forum/index.php?topic=13178.0 What about the hd-dvd, any info on that relase? all i know right now is that it is coming

hmm, and neither does any of the kb keys. oh well, guess i have some work to do :D.

well, i erased the folder and unpacked again, got the mouse sensitivity working, but right click doesn't work, nor does kb. queer. oh well :D ill keep trying.

queer, the mouse refuse to comply with me, but then again, i am using vanila wine. so that may be it. The mouse did work, as such, but it just didn't move as expected. come to think of it, it just seemed like my mouse was way to sensitive.

ehm, newtons law is false. its close, but its not accurate.

ahh, thanks for clearing that up.

what the bip is this about? http://us.imdb.com/Title?0217408