Netherlands opens first "deportation center" for immigrants

[SurlyPIG]

I never debate based on assumptions of a third person. You assuming thinks just to start a rant against my personal view is just.......well......******. This is very similar to when navaros insisted in making a statment about your incident in a electronic shop, he made up a whole bs history, only based on assumptions.

Btw, in his post (Duke) he started refering of Cuban Group, could have been as well mexican or others. Besides, the phrase "hate with a passion" is enough proff to know racist behavior.

Ok ok fine tertiary assumption, you have a point. Lets REMEMBER that. He said he hates illegal immigrants with a passion. In no way was that in reference to a specific nationality or ethnicity. He went on to describe the tendancies of illegal Cuban immigrants in his area. You know why? Because there are hoardes of illegal cuban immigrants in Florida. If he lived in Texas or southern California he'd probably talk about illegal immigrants from Mexico, or if he lived in Vancouver, from China. It is an undisputed fact that the vast majority of illegal immigrants in Florida are from Cuba. You cannot dispute that.

Racist mainly look down third world inmigrants. He wouldn't hate you.

That is a completely unbased tertiary assumption, just like the one I made. Contradiction!

How are they affected ?, so you it's just a matter of time that you start feeling hate for inmigrants, no further comment to that.

You seriously can't think of how illegal immigrants are bad for the society they're violating? First, by refusing to learn English they automatically make themselves incompatable with the rest of society. They are unable to do their official business like working, paying taxes without a translater. Who picks up the translator's bill? The taxpayers. They utilize public services without paying a cent for them, and there is a higher crime rate among illegal immigrants than from citizens or legal immigrants. Here in Canada, they've come in huge, rickety boatloads from China, all to request asylum. Now it's genuinely possible that they were in some kind of political danger in China, but hundreds to a boat? Please. I remember one batch where the ship they were on was so dangerous that the coastguard had to evacuate them before they even made it to shore. When they get to shore, they clog up the refugee hearing system for people who actually deserve to hear it. Most of them get individual or family hearings to see if they are actually worthy of refugee status, but the court dates are months or even years away because the system can't handle a hoarde of them at a time. And what happens during these months? They disappear, never to even show up at their hearing. Most don't even TRY to enter legally. But they have the same access to welfare, health care, education and public services as citizens who actually have learned English and work.

DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

I've never said Americans. Jesus.

I've said First world citizens and NorthAmericans (exclude Mexico).

Let's say a Brazilian comes to Chile, Brazilians are Americans too (wheater you like it or not), they are most welcome, in this very season many Brazilians come to Chilean winter resorts, and not a single complain have been, we welcome them with open arms and they are american too.

WAKE UP Zamboe. I'm not talking about people from continental America. I'm talking about people from the country of America. Henceforth unless otherwise noted, whenever anybody says "American" they are referring to somebody from the USA. Nobody uses the term American to describe somebody from North or South America. I have a hard time believing that you didn't know this already, that you were actually that ignorant of what I was talking about.

First US and Canadian (same thing) business come here to get money not do any favor. Besides with a few exceptions just a few US and Canadian corporation are leading the SA main markets, presence of European corporations are way much important, besides huge USA companies came here and failed big time and ended up being brought by local companies, such as Home Depot, JCPenney, Sam's, ATT, Wendy's, McDonalds in some SA countries, they all came and failed now are gone.

The reason I log in this open forum is not your business, if you haven't noticed yet there are members (US included) that agree with me in many areas, so what you call "one way street" is not true. I haven't feld annoyed by this thing, in fact I do this in order to have my mind open to different opinions and views, same reason I leard other languages, I would see it worst people loggin only in english-first world forums and be mind closed to the rest of the world just to avoid be annoyed.

I can help to write that that the "perfectly clear" statment you made a few days ago, it doesn't look clear to me anymore.

You absolutely and completely misunderstood every single thing I wrote. Go back and read it again. I was trying to relate Duke's resentment for illegal immigrants to the way (as you described) South Americans resent people from the US.

[zamboe]

I might be ignorant in your opinion, I don't care that, I won't flame back.

You really don't get what I wrote, asking legal permanence is just the first step in the racist propaganda. A racist person would name exactly the same kind of arguments you said (e.g.: not paying taxes or not speaking english), but if this person has legal papers then racists move to the next stair which is complain " you might have papers but you are most likely a danger to this society " , etc. You mentioned California, you should remember that up to 15% of the labor is made by ilegal mexicans working on legal wine companies when is the time to harvest, do they care, they don't.

I've had enough of this racist defense and propaganda.

If anyone wants to hate with a passion, do it. I wonder how much you would hate if for any reason you would move to Florida or Texas or British Columbia.

[SurlyPIG]

LOL so now I'm a racist...that's just too rich.

Did it ever occur to you that there was some amount of hyperbole in Duke's post?

[Phage]

Well if the US did what the Netherlands are doing...international criticism would be huge. As would criticism by the typical anti-american radicals here.

In any event I think some illegal immigrants are good people that help our economy. I certainly don't want to do hard labor, and it keeps prices down.

Some legal and illegal immigrants are also really rude, presumptuous and closed-minded. There is a mexican family living at some nearby apartments, and they are refusing to let their kid learn english. I mean flat out refusing it. That means you are "not allowed" to speak english around this kid, the kid is not allowed to watch shows where people speak english, etc. I mean really radical and traditionalist nonsense.

Another mexican nationalist(they come here, bad mouth america, scream "Brown Pride!" and carry a mexican flag) told my friend she was "too white to be speaking spainish" at college. Really racist, except for some reason when a mexican behaves in a racist manner its not called "racist" its called "lashing out." Which is what the local college called it. (They do have policies against racism, but apparently overlook it when it comes from minorities).

One more example, my friend was working at McDonalds. One of her first days on the job and several times a mexican would come to the line and request to be served by a mexican. I mean WTF?! Imagine a white guy saying "Can I be served by a white person?" to a mexican....he'd be lynched.

And I am partly mexican myself, actually mixed race (asian/mexican/white), yet even to me the double-standard is obvious(I hope I'm not called racist for this). As is the arrogance, and closed-mindedness of some recent immigrants.

Like I said many are good people but many of them likewise have a certain inflexibility and prejudice to small and large degrees.

Tha fact is also, for illegal aliens, they are here illegally, which is wrong. Not a major wrong, but something which should be punished.

[Timenn]

timenn... we're talking about ILLEGAL immigrants here. And yes ofcourse most immigrants do learn dutch and get a normal job etc.. But it's not just me... even my Egyptian and turkish friends agree that quite a bit immigrants just don't want to work, don't want to change, only to fight and abuse the dutch society. They don't give a FUCK about us, now IMO those people can just FUCK themselves and leave. This is not where i voted for

I doesn't make more sense when turkish or egyptians say it.

Illegal immigrants are desperate because they had to flee, but they are not allowed in this country. And they are not allowed because right now you have a very asocial procedure for asylum seekers.

As NaMpIgAi says, not all illegal immigrants are doing criminal stuff. But the LPF, CDA, VVD are making such a big deal of it, so that everyone who is victim of a crime believes it was done by illegal immigrants. And sometimes illegal immigrants did the crime, but then you only remember it of them. And not a crime done by a Dutchman

[zamboe]

Imagine a white guy saying "Can I be served by a white person?" to a mexican....he'd be lynched.

Not in US or Canada.

[SurlyPIG]

Zamboe, first of all that was a HYPERBOLE. Second of all, don't you think that's a GOOD thing that people are no longer lynched for non-violent crimes?

[Acriku]

Imagine a white guy saying "Can I be served by a white person?" to a mexican....he'd be lynched.

Not in US or Canada.

Bullcrap! If I said that around anyone, I'd be beat to a pulp! Obviously you do not know how things really are.

[zamboe]

Imagine a white guy saying "Can I be served by a white person?" to a mexican....he'd be lynched.

Not in US or Canada.

Bullcrap! If I said that around anyone, I'd be beat to a pulp! Obviously you do not know how things really are.

You don't know what you are talking about, you live in the US and you are not part of any minority. How could you possible know without life experience, not your fault anyway.

On the contrary, several, and I mean several times, I've felt different kind of terrible racist practices myself (which I don't even want to start telling, it would take a few pages) even though I have never been ilegal in the US neither I have never done anything ilegal.

Most people see minorities and inmediately take them as inmigrants, when the reality is that most of them happen to be tourist. You live in Florida, where most latins go for vacations, no matter what they are taken as inmigrants.

I'll tell you one more thing, most latins choose Florida for vacations, we find it very interesting, so much fun, but we don't go back, I presume you can know the reason by now ... majorities behavior towards minorities.

[Acriku]

What the heck are you talking about? How can I not know what would happen to me if I were to say to a minority: "Can I be served by a white person?" ?! Keep making it up zamboe, you're doing good so far.

Who are these "most people"? Could you be more specific?

If I see someone at school never speaking english more often than not he/she is an immigrant. But I don't have much against legal immigrants. I do, however, have a hatred against people entering this country illegally. Especially when anyone of them could be a terrorist.

[zamboe]

But I don't have much against legal immigrants.

So you have something against them, that's precisely the part I am talking about, the worst part. Being legal inmigrant is not enough for you and for the majorities in the first world. As I said is just the first step in this terrible propaganda.

I do, however, have a hatred against people entering this country illegally. Especially when anyone of them could be a terrorist.

no futher comment needed.

[Acriku]

The only thing I have against certain legal immigrants is that they won't speak english and they wave their flag around like they are living in their own country.

[zamboe]

The only thing I have against certain legal immigrants is that they won't speak english and they wave their flag around like they are living in their own country.

I doubt is the only thing, anyway, no difference.

About the flag thing, I'll remember your feelings when next thursday (4 july) the US community here do wave around theirs and sing US national song. I'll remember that in order to not act like you do.

[Acriku]

Well I do live in the U.S., why shouldn't I wave the flag of the United States in the United States?

[zamboe]

Well I do live in the U.S., why shouldn't I wave the flag of the United States in the United States?

I meant the US community that will wave around the US flag in other places on 4 july.

[Acriku]

I can't speak for them. If I lived in Britain, I'd wave their flag if I did at all, which I probably wouldn't. If I was visiting, then I would wave my flag.

[Phage]

You don't know what you are talking about, you live in the US and you are not part of any minority. How could you possible know without life experience, not your fault anyway.

Well I am a minority. About as minority as you get unless you know some other Mexican-Japanese-Euromut mixes. And as far as my experiences goes I have yet to see one white person ever do anything like asked to be served by a white person, and if something like that *does* happen(very, very rarely) everyone gives him a dirty look and he gets beat up. But if a mexican insults a white person with "white boy" or asks to be served by a mexican nobody cares. Its as if some people think it impossible for a mexican or black to be racist, well I got news here and its that bigotry knows no border. The only difference is in the US its at least aknowledged and combated(though by no means is the situation perfect) when it comes to whites, but when it comes to everyone else its not confronted at all, at home or abroad.

On the contrary, several, and I mean several times, I've felt different kind of terrible racist practices myself (which I don't even want to start telling, it would take a few pages) even though I have never been ilegal in the US neither I have never done anything ilegal.

Yes and I've actually faced some racism too, coming from mainly blacks and mexicans. Very, very rarely coming from whites. Perhaps in your region its different but when I got to grade school I actually had blacks calling me "nigger" due to my being mexican.And my white friend was called "white chocolate" by mexicans at his work.

Had my friend called them "brownies" that would have raised a s**t storm. Or if he brought in a "white pride" shirt just like they bring in "brown pride" he would have been fired.

The sad thing is this behavior actually reinforces white stereotypes of minorities and ideas of "race loyalties" creating neo-nazis and cryptoracists among whites as well. You only encounter soooo many blacks and mexicans who tell you that you are different and do not belong for being "white" before you start to believe it. Only soo long can you have someone call you "the enemy" and treat you like one before you become their enemy.

I'm not saying they are right, but that allowing for bigotry on one side does nothing to cure bigotry on the other.

And everyone has to learn, including immigrants that nationalism, closed-mindedness and racism is simply not acceptable.

This means when you come to a country, you change your language. Not because their is better but because that is more efficient, it is more efficient for a country to have one language. I don't move to china and expect the chinese to learn english, if I move there and I learn chinese.

It also means people need to realize that ones culture, loyalties and nationality is not determined by race. It is determined by your character, your choices. Not race.

[Acriku]

I found a great compromise from a friend of mine who is Italian, where she learns all the english she can absorb at school, and at home she learns her native language - Italian. I think we all should be taught two languages, it's possible and has many advantages.

I forgot to mention that she teaches her mother english that she learned at school. That's the coolest part!

[Phage]

Well the problem is then...what two? Also I don't think that's as efficient as a country with one main language. I mean, I have no problem with a person learning two languages, but I think as a nation we should aknowledge english as the standard. I also don't see why you should want to as well besides tactical reasons I suppose, I mean its just a language but some people act like it has some sort of special property to it. Like if you speak one language instead of another you are betraying your race or culture or something.

[Acriku]

Well in America, English and any other language they see fit to learn. I personally want to learn German. Learning another language also provides job opportunities.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

People are often confused with my looks.

In college, I've heard people call me 'jew, sand-nigger, peanut,(Phillipines) pissebed(Turkish) and charlie (Japanese)

Most of the time, I got insulted by Dutch people.

People from other countries and cultures however, barely insults me and I seem to have more luck with them.

But it still makes me mad, how immigrants may discriminate others.

If a Dutch person says jew or nigger etc,

the person gets kicked to jail or gets a fine.

It is ridiculous....

What's next?

[Timenn]

You can clearly see that Kirov is driven by bias.

Why do I, or other people I know, have such problems??

[Nyarlathotep]

The current situation in The Netherlands asks for a solution. Some of us may not aprove the messures taken, while others will. I agree with most opinions here, which may contradict. Some people do not experience things from up close, while others do. Hence why you have different opinions.

I have no problem with people getting into The Netherlands via the legal way. However, people getting in via a illigal way should have no place in The Netherlands. Do not forget that The Netherlands has been one of the countries that never took a hard stance against illigal foreigners. Now politics take a hard stance and in that I do support them.

Also, you flee to a country cause you think it suites your needs. In that case, for gods sake, learn the language ! If you do, by all means, I would pick you up from the airport and make sure you get a home.

On the other end, at a certain point I was out of a job. I went to a government lead instance that gives people money when they're out of a job. It took me 3 hours (!) to fill out all forms. The person I was in discussion with told me that I wouldn't get paid anyway, but this was just procedure. I asked her "procedure for what ?". She replied "Well, you need to come back to do this all over again". Needed because after a deny, you can request it again and it'll be approved. => Not to sound as a racist, but a foreigner sitting behind me was out of the building within 5 minutes with a payment agreement ! I can understand where people get their frustration from.

Another instance, my brother was looking for a home (rent). It was stated several times that there was nothing available, yet the former Dutch governemnt gives homes to immigrants, while inhabitants need to wait. No offense, but we then can demand that they speak the national language (it finally took my brother 5 years to get a home).

I support the current government stance, out with the illigals. However, those who came here legally and learn (or at least show willingness) Dutch, I can only say welcome friend.

For illigal people I have only one question, why do it illigally while there's a legal way, in which the government will support you ?

[Timenn]

"For illigal people I have only one question, why do it illigally while there's a legal way, in which the government will support you ?"

Because they were forced to move back to their country of origin, while they already live in NL for some years.

Or they are not accepted while they are desperate to avoid their own country. and they were not judged properly

[Nyarlathotep]

"For illigal people I have only one question, why do it illigally while there's a legal way, in which the government will support you ?"

Because they were forced to move back to their country of origin, while they already live in NL for some years.

Or they are not accepted while they are desperate to avoid their own country. and they were not judged properly

I think there are many nations where people flee from to other countries. I think one should judge on case to case bases. Do not forget, I'm talking about people living illigally in The Netherlands. People that come here legally, I think the government should support them (if their case is proven to be not okay in thier country).

If one is in The Netherlands illigally and forced to move back, don't try to get back again illigally.