Senatus Populusque Americanus

[SurlyPIG]

So, according to you, every comparison up until future predictions is logically accurate, described in complete truth and undoubtedly logical? Right...

[Egeides]

Everything that is futuristic isn't history, and was rightly put into "Surreal history". It's funny, no more.

And I didn't say all what was there was accurate: only that the part that were interesting to me. I knew about Carthage, I knew about the roman political system. The parallel is interesting.

[Gobalopper]

U.S. planning historic shift abroad

Looks like they might be coming to Romania Edric. ;)

[Edric O]

They're already here, Gob. The US Air Force has a permanent presence at the Mihail Kogalniceanu military airport. So, if anything, that map I posted is incomplete: Romania should be shaded in the "use of military facilities" colour as well.

Not that it makes any difference, of course. Our leaders are well-paid servants of the empire anyway.

So, let's finally get this topic to where it should have been from the beginning: Discussing the similarities between Rome and the USA, and their respective empires. Take a look at the articles from The Guardian and The New York Times that I linked to...

[Dude_Doc]

And finally, Dude_Doc, I'd like to point out 2 things:

1. North Korean, Chinese, and Cuban forces are all kept within those nations' sovereign borders.

2. You are PARANOID.

Wow, I'm paranoid. Call the police, I might hurt someone...

I mentioned those countries as an example. And if you think making fun of the USA, then why not Romania, France, Russia, Iran, blabla etc? You seem to be obsessed with America. Everything "bad" or "funny" you see on any other page, or (possible?) another forum, you must absolutely post it here, isn't it so?

[Egeides]

Dune_Doc, for him it's like jokes about his enemy, so of course it'll be USA, not whattever else!

Now, instead of chasing our tails, I propose we go on this topic: The similarities AND differences between the Roman Empire and USA.

[Dude_Doc]

Oh, I see. And wouldn't his enemies also be countries like China who recently destroyed about 100 homes to build a dam? Think those people got any replacements? No. It's like one day the government decides to build a power plant of your house and you just have to move out of your home and live on the streets. Indeed the very beliefs of Marx ::) ...

It is obvious the USA, because you hear about them all the time. Try take a look on other countries who oppress both right and left wing views...

[zamboe]

It is obvious the USA, because you hear about them all the time. Try take a look on other countries who oppress both right and left wing views...

Every country oppress inside it's border, USA does mainly outside his borders, not a small difference.

[Egeides]

Dude_Doc, I dunno if it's as entertaining for him, ask him in a PM :P

Besides, China is no communist state to me. The only thing it has from Marx is the rhetoric and perhaps it will abandon it when it will stop working and permit them to control everything. I would hesitate to say if China is closer to fascism ideology than communism...

Now, what about Rome??? Anyone?

I read an interesting article on the subject, but it was in French... Basically, all the interior US system has many similarities to Rome: elitist politics, rich people controlling, being at war so often, the difference between rich and poor, the level of domestic violence, the negative view of the exterior, the rich people that isolate themselves from others, the police that controls alot (Patriot Act someone?)... anyway, the article is over 10 or 15 pages if I remember well. It's from le Monde Diplomatique, 1990s.

[Dude_Doc]

Every country oppress inside it's border, USA does mainly outside his borders, not a small difference.

Really? Give me an example where the US is oppressing people, and by that I mean they kill them, destroy their homes without question, and restrict them from using simple requirements like water and electricity (if they even have any).

[Egeides]

Iraq (when they supported Hussein), Indonesia (when they supported Suharto for natural ressources. The official weapon was M16 by the way), Latino America (a little everywhere, recently Venezuela?), everywhere they decided they had economic partners, thus... worth having some help from them. Support to Israel attack and colonizing (is taking other's house normal??) Etc.

Perhaps an evidence would be the restrictions to Iraq after 1991, on FOOD, HEALTHCARE... Damage to population are disastrous. A whole generation got their brains affected by lack of nutriments while they were becoming so well educated... Same for Cuba (we can see for many things maybe, but certainly not medication...).

[Edric O]

If China is communist, I'm the Pope. Not only do they have a stalinist repression system, but they have also completely abandoned all leftism and got themselves a fully capitalist economy. China isn't any more "communist" than the USA, except in name.

And don't you just love rightist hypocrisy? Dude_Doc whines about me exposing the crimes of the Bush administration, but completely ignores topics like this, or this, or this... need I continue?

Btw, Egeides is right, and the countries he named are just a few of the places where the USA imposed its domination with an iron fist.

Speaking of which, this is yet another similarity between America and Rome: Rather than physically conquering enemy lands, they prefer to install puppet leaders and turn those countries into client states. Of course, Rome eventually abandoned this practice and switched over to good old fashioned conquest. But this wasn't until the final days of the Republic - a stage that America hasn't reached yet.

I think we can compare the Soviet Union with Carthage. Both of them almost defeated the future Universal Empire, but not quite.

And in the Cuban Missile Crisis, you could almost hear Kennedy scream: "Hannibal ante portas!" (Hannibal at the gates)

And now, Russia delenda est. But we are still in the time of the Republic. The Empire has yet to begin. I wonder, who will be Caesar this time?

[Egeides]

Hey, I thought it was worth sending an email to this guy who made the website, and he acknowledge to add his sources. So I guess it's positive :)

[Dude_Doc]

So you are not happy about the people getting their freedom? The Nazis killed people in their occupied countries without reason, because of their belief in the "race" system.

We are living in different times now. Would you rather have your country tortured by a dictator, or live free under a foreign control?

[SurlyPIG]

He would rather have people live under Communists. ;)

[Egeides]

Dude, Iraqis would rather have NEITHER Saddam nor USA. They'd want to decide for themselves of their future.

[SurlyPIG]

Which is relatively what is happening Eg.

[Edric O]

Yeah, relatively... *cough cough*

And Dude_Doc, "living free under foreign control" is an oxymoron. If you're under foreign control, you're not free.

Regardless of whether you think America is a good or bad empire, the fact remains that it is an EMPIRE.

[Egeides]

Until now ACE, they are free to shut up and let the US decide. All crucial decisions are taken by US until now... Like who is exploiting petroleum and many other things for exemple. And it's not finished since say me what kind of economy you instaure in another country, and I'll say you who'll get its paws on the national economy.

[Dude_Doc]

And Dude_Doc, "living free under foreign control" is an oxymoron. If you're under foreign control, you're not free.

So you say the Iraqis are no more free than under the rule of Saddam Hussein?

[Egeides]

Not at all Dude. He's saying they are not as free as they should be. Making better than what USA had brang by supporting Saddam, this was easy.

[Anathema]

The occupation is obviously a lot friendlier then Saddams rule, then again, it's pretty hard not to be.

Side note, I doubt that Iraq will truly become "democratic", or at least any time soon, because most of the Iraqi people still dislike Israel and I doubt Bush would stand for an anti Israelian government.

[Dude_Doc]

I don't think they pose much of a treath now. They can hate Israel as much as they want to, I don't care. At least they can now do whatever they wish to do. And yes, it takes a lot of time to rebuild a country. Remember, it didn't take one day to "rebuild" Germany after WW2.

[Egeides]

Dude, do you believe USA's biggest corporations will profit alot from it or do you believe it's not the case?

[Dude_Doc]

Dude, do you believe USA's biggest corporations will profit alot from it or do you believe it's not the case?

Okay, they loose their oil. Then what? Is oil more important than food and water suddenly? Isn't it, on the opposite side, better that the US gets their oil, and that the Iraqui people get their food and water? What would you do if you were in their case?