Satan

[Miles]

damnit, I leave for a few days and the only topic I find interesting gets locked. Well, I'm going to open this thread to finish what was being discussed before it veered off topic. If this is against the rules, then I guess it'll get locked, but damnit it was not my fault it got off topic. >:(

Anyway, Gunwounds, I really expected a better response from you. You seem to be the "scholar", but your response of "well it would leave a house divided" dissapointed me. There are two ways to counter this.....rebuttal?

1. First of all, Satan doesn't give a shit if we like of worship him. He hates humanity, so in order to get us to destroy ourselves, he is willing to take the role of "evil" one in order to avenge himself on God.

The "good" parts of the Bible, that you said Satan would never put in the Bible are merely camoflouge for the true intentions of the Bible-- to cofuse us, to set us against each other, and to blind us from truth. Of course he has to make it look "good" or we would never have believed in it.

Perhaps your "house divided" is exactly what he wants as it creates chaos.

2. Perhaps Satan did not write the Bible, perhaps it was Bob, the true evil one. Maybe Bob maintains all the characteristics of Satan as we know him, but because he doesn't want to look like the bad guy, he changed the name of the figure in the Bible to Satan.

You act as if you know Satan and how he would act, but you only know the Bible's description of Satan. If Bob or Satan wrote the Bible, then you only know what he wants you to know, and described to scare you into the Biblical trap.

The whole point of this is to show you that all that "truth" you people spout off is no more credible than this scenerio. Nor is it any more credible than any of the other religions out there.

[die4honr]

as ialways it is safer to believe in something than nothing

[Miles]

as ialways it is safer to believe in something than nothing

and why exactly is that?

[die4honr]

what would it hurt huh? better safe then sorry

[Navaros]

we already had enough Satan threads on this board

[Acriku]

Die4Honr Few***, that's your choice, but you can always pick E) none of the above.

Navaros, there is only one other Satan topic and that was locked, and this is the continuation of it.

Now get back ontopic and reply to Miles' post!

Note: Didn't Jesus say he comes to bring division, that the father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father, etc? Sounds like a Satan thing to do to me.

And Jesus is called "Morning Star" in Revelations, but Lucifer is also called "Morning Star"...Coincidence?

[Navaros]

Navaros, there is only one other Satan topic and that was locked, and this is the continuation of it.

so everytime a thread gets locked nowadays, a new one about the exact same thing should be started? ::)

btw there was not only one thread about it, Gunwounds was making other threads about it too

[Acriku]

He made a thread about offtopic replies to the Satan thread, but isn't about satan at all. So...no.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Miles you totally missed alot of points i made in those topics if they were moved to the dungeon... however if they are only locked i suggest you go read them.. i am not going to repost everything.

I even explained why i thought that satan did write a bible. Its called the Quaran.. and his mockery of christianity is called Islam. I explained extensively about that in those other threads. i hoped they were not moved to the dungeon.

and in response to Acriku... jesus WASNT dividing the trinity like what your thinking. He was showing each part of God's identity.. letting the identities be known. You see in the old testament God was only know as God the father. When jesus came he revealed that God is a trinity of The father, the word (son), and the Holy spirit (the power).

And so it has nothing to do with jesus fulfilling satan.

I do not know what the morning star refernce is about. Perhaps the morningstar reference is a good one. applied to jesus.. and lucifer when he was not evil. (remember lucifer wasnt always bad).

If anyone else knows anything about this morningstar reference please post it. I am totally drained of answering acriku and miles's random biblical question attacks. I am taking a break for a few days.

Acriku my advice to you is to not use this forum as a substitute for actually reading books and scriptures and articles.

That is somewhat lazy. Get out there and do some real reading if your so damn curious. :D ;)

THIS POST WAS EDITED PLEASE RE-READ

[Acriku]

GUNWOUNDS, that does not hold up for:

Luke 12:53

The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

The daughter and mother, mother in law and daughter in law...

And I am reading the bible, so do not be so assumptive to think I do not read the bible. KJV by the way. The "infallible" one ( ;))

[GUNWOUNDS]

could you post more of that scripture that the one sentence taken out of context??

i cant fully understand what the scripture is trying to say or even what it is referring to... it may be totally out of context and therefore not the meaning you are trying to convey.

or if you dont want to .. i will go read it sometime tommorrow and get back to you later.

[Acriku]

Just look at your bible: Luke 12:53.

The chapter is too long to post in this. I am not scared, if that's what you think, I just won't post the entire chapter.

[GUNWOUNDS]

ok i will look at it and post sometime tommorrow

unless someone well versed like Nema Fakei wants to tackle this one.

also i would like to say that some good advice would be to try to look at it from both perspectives. Instead of just labelling some as bad or contradictory... stop for a minute and think to yourself...how could i interpret this another way ? Or how could i agree with this?

I dont know about you but in my english classes i had to take... i had to write essays where i had to present both sides of the story.

So if you come across some scripture that you think doesnt sound right.. try thinking of it in another way. Some parts of the bible are coded.. try to figure out what it means is somewhat of a challenge.

And acriku.. i would recommend the STUDENT BIBLE to you that is the best bible. It has side notes and end of chapter summaries and comments explaining what is what. Extremely helpful ....

[Gobalopper]

Not Peace but Division

⁴⁹"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! ⁵⁰But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is completed! ⁵¹Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. ⁵²From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. ⁵³They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

[Miles]

Miles you totally missed alot of points i made in those topics if they were moved to the dungeon... however if they are only locked i suggest you go read them.. i am not going to repost everything.

I even explained why i thought that satan did write a bible. Its called the Quaran.. and his mockery of christianity is called Islam. I explained extensively about that in those other threads. i hoped they were not moved to the dungeon.

I missed nothing. I read your Quaran hypothesis and it is as valid as any other scenerio posted. This answers nothing. It is Just another theory.

The fact is that whether the Bible was inspired by God, Satan, or Bob, there is no reason to hold any one theory above the other. Just because the Bible says it is inspired by God, doesn't mean that whoever wrote or "inspired" it didn't only say that to trap blind followers to serve their purposes. The religious are enslaved by those absolutes, and are incapable of looking beyond them to some more disturbing possibilities. Most don't even try. They just accept what is spoonfed to them by those "scholars", becoming slaves to their interperetations. This is an inevitability of religion, and what Satan, or Bob would be after in order to stifle human growth.

[Miles]

what would it hurt huh? better safe then sorry

Pleeeeease, not Pascal's wager. ::)

In my scenerio, all the Christians will go to hell because they believe in Satan's word, whereas I search for the real truth. God will reward me and send the sheep to hell. Have fun burning for eternity. ;)

[GUNWOUNDS]

yes most people are spoon fed... yes most christians are hypocrites.....yes we can never know for sure whether there is a god or not.

your absolutely right. you think your some revolutionary?? please ....

[GUNWOUNDS]

I too am searching for the truth and will be rewarded while all the catholics and muslims burn in hell.....

and i think i have found the truth its called non-denominational faith.

I have found what i am looking for. I hope you find what your looking for.

THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED PLEASE RE-READ

[Miles]

I too am searching for the truth and will be rewarded while all the catholics and muslims burn in hell.....

I totally agree with you miles.

The difference between me and you is that I only pose this scenario to play devil's advocate. To point some things out to those "weak minded" believers that their faith is based on nothing more than assumptions and wishful thinking.

I'm not interested in heaven and hell, and I really don't care who thinks I will burn, nor who else is going to. These concepts are merely scare tactics conjured up by men who would control their followers, and I refuse to be frightened into a system of beliefs. Emotions are a pretty lousy tool for finding truth. They lead you to believe what makes you feel good, while the truth tends to be disturbing and awesome at the same time.

Karl Marx was right on about one thing. "religion is the opiate of the masses".

[GUNWOUNDS]

My only problem with you Miles is that you think you are somehow enlightened because you know that some christians are hypocrites or that some priest molest kids, or that people are being untolerable of others... Ephiphany??!! Bull$h*t!!!

Just because you acknowledge those things does not mean you know anything others do not. Dont prance around like you just discovered problems with others faith and now your some damn Magellan making a discovery.

All of these problems and disturbing facts do not make you some intellectual. Thanks for stating the obvious Miles !

[GUNWOUNDS]

And i see nothing wrong with pascal's wager.....

I dont use heaven and hell to scare others...

If there is an afterlife....I want to partake of it. I dont want to be punished or isolated in any way due to the fact that i was too prideful or thickheaded to worshipp a higher entity. Its all about what i beleive.. i never said you had to believe what i do. The fact of the matter is that you really dont have any beliefs.. and you merely play devil's advocate to rile people. You actually feel hollow inside and truly want something to believe... you feel alone dont you? and confused?

if you didnt you wouldnt be here now questioning everyone.

if you were truly content with your beliefs you wouldnt be here now trying to change others minds.

you see the differnce between me and you ... is that you are trying to changes others minds although you not even sure of what you believe in

... while i am stating what i already believe and am content believing.

you are the one who sounds like you have something to prove.

[SurlyPIG]

Miles you totally missed alot of points i made in those topics if they were moved to the dungeon... however if they are only locked i suggest you go read them.. i am not going to repost everything.

I even explained why i thought that satan did write a bible. Its called the Quaran.. and his mockery of christianity is called Islam. I explained extensively about that in those other threads. i hoped they were not moved to the dungeon.

...makes me glad I blocked the other crap...

Have you even READ the Qur'an? You can't even SPELL Qur'an! You posted not a single verse from either the Bible or the Qur'an to support this ridiculous claim. The course of history and the origins of Islam completely defy this postulation. Though not a picnic Islam shares not one similarity with Satan as described in the Bible...

[GUNWOUNDS]

Well i have seen it spelled tons of different ways.

i have seen

QUARAN

Qur'an

and Koran

you seem to forget that different languages might spell it differently

there is arabic, farci, etc.

why are we even debating the spelling??.... nice offtopic ace...

anyways i have a 10 page document that supports my claims and a go READ the book by the ex-muslim Iranian citizen Salman Rushdie titled "Satanic Verses"

[Miles]

My only problem with you Miles is that you think you are somehow enlightened because you know that some christians are hypocrites or that some priest molest kids, or that people are being untolerable of others... Ephiphany??!! Bull$h*t!!!

You really think that is what I base my beliefs on? I think that those things are the natural result of the divisive nature of religion, at least the intolerant part. Child molestation is simply a case of a sick fuck taking advantage of his authority. anyway--offtopic, but that is not why I don't believe in God.

I refuse to jump to conclusions based on my fears and desires. Those are not valid reasons to believe in something. Would it be nice to believe in some all-powerful being who will protect me from the world's evils? Yes, that would be nice, but I have to face the fact that there is no evidence for the existance of God, least of which a book written around 2000 years ago, and I would only be diluting myself if I jumped to those conclusions based on fear and desire. It would also be nice to believe that I had an angel to give me money whenever I was short, but I'm not going to base my life on that.

Enlightened.... I wouldn't go that far. Liberated.....yes.

There's an old saying. "The truly wise man is one that realizes that he doesn't know anything".

Just because you acknowledge those things does not mean you know anything others do not. Dont prance around like you just discovered problems with others faith and now your some damn Magellan making a discovery.

I have made many discoveries--personal ones. Whether or not they are original, I don't really give a shit. I am in the process of searching and learning.

All of these problems and disturbing facts do not make you some intellectual. Thanks for stating the obvious Miles !

My statement is not that they happen. That is the obvious. But that they are the inevitable result of religion.

And i see nothing wrong with pascal's wager.....

I dont use heaven and hell to scare others...

If there is an afterlife....I want to partake of it. I dont want to be punished or isolated in any way due to the fact that i was too prideful or thickheaded to worshipp a higher entity. Its all about what i beleive..

Maybe you don't use Pascal's wager to scare others, you use it to scare yourself as demonstrated in your statement.

i never said you had to believe what i do.

Nor I you.

The fact of the matter is that you really dont have any beliefs.. and you merely play devil's advocate to rile people.

absolutely 100% correct. People need to be riled from the comforts of their delusions or they will become complacent in their search.

You actually feel hollow inside and truly want something to believe... you feel alone dont you? and confused?

Actually I am pretty good, although not fully content. That is the fuel that drives my search. contentment leads to stagnation, which leads to no new knowledge and ignorance. I gain much satisfaction from the search.

if you didnt you wouldnt be here now questioning everyone.

if you were truly content with your beliefs you wouldnt be here now trying to change others minds.

I've already said why I come here. There's very few people around me either open enough, knowledgeable enough, or interested enough to hold these kind of conversations. I use this site as a way for me to work out my beliefs, to hear other opinions, get feedback, and possibly learn new things.

And no, I'm not content, as I stated above. Contentment is for fools who wish to no longer search for truth.

[you see the differnce between me and you ... is that you are trying to changes others minds although you not even sure of what you believe in

... while i am stating what i already believe and am content believing.

That's your problem.

you are the one who sounds like you have something to prove.

Not something to prove, just something to learn. See I'm not so arrogant to claim to know the truth. I'm realistic enough to realize that I can only search and learn. It's too bad others cannot recognize their fallability.

[GUNWOUNDS]

But why even search Miles?... with your attitude you will be 99 years still looking.. and will have found nothing... someone once wrote that you cant find God in a logical way..... you have to find god.. then the logic follows in other words he should explain things to you. I know it sounds corny.. but a leap of faith is all i can put into words right now.

i tell you what though there is a much better forum to discuss this in..... i will post a link to it.. mostly older men in their 20'30' 40' and 50's post there and some have intellects that far surpass ours. They have made some good points too.