USA democracy: Bush tweaking voting districts

[Egeides]

If you think Bush believes in democracy, read THIS:

The Colorado legislative map turns a district that had roughly equal percentage of Republicans and Democrats into a district where the GOP would have a 29,000-person voter registration advantage. When the new map was released in Colorado, Democrats accused Republicans of "weakening Hispanic voters" by reducing the Hispanic population from 19.6 to 14.3 percent.

And it's not restricted to Colorado!!

Can any Bush supporter explain how Bush could do this by believing in democratic principles?

All the rest of the article at http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2003/05/08/gop/index.html

[SurlyPIG]

Odd how it doesn't mention that this was uniform with population changes.

[Navaros]

who cares? democracy in the USA is a farce anyhow.

how the heck can you have "re-counts" which result in a difference of hundreds-thousands of votes the opposite way during the "re-count"???!!! ::) could there be anything more insane?

that fact alone is enough to prove that voting in the USA means absolutely nothing at all because all elections are determined soley by the rigged vote "counting" and incompetent and/or paid-off "vote counters"; not by how many people voted for whom

[Caid Ivik]

In every recount there are errors. Human factor. You try to count 1000 things without any mistake...

[Navaros]

In every recount there are errors. Human factor. You try to count 1000 things without any mistake...

if someone is being paid to do a job for which the only job duty is to COUNT, and that job duty is of the utmost importance --- then you're darn skippy that person should NOT be making any errors.

end of story.

if the vote counters are too incompetent to know how to COUNT then they should not BE vote counters!

[Caid Ivik]

Those people have normal jobs, they are volunteers. We had some problems with that recently too, because one MP of our city hall had suffered loss and 2nd recounting showed he could win. 3rd didn't...

[SurlyPIG]

Where have you two been? I'm not certain if it's like this everywhere but the vast majority of the US using punch-hole ballots that are counted automatically by machines.

That said, it's a great idea but the technology is obsolete, the machines are two decades old and have been moved around far too often, and there were defective ballots in the last election that caused a significant number of people in Palm Beach that were voting for Al Gore to instead vote for Ralph Naiter.

I say replace them with computers.

[Egeides]

ACE, computers don't give ANY security on the result. Well I know that these informatic counting machines cannot let you verify them after. you cannot check if they went ok! Some even got informatic patches just before... Doesn't seem that reliable.

Also, what do you mean with "population change"? They are changing something and it goes all the way to their advantage... So the government in power is able to chose to do or not to do something, chosing for its profit...

[DukeLeto]

Everyone knows Bush runs nothing short of a Fascist Dictatorship these days...

[Egeides]

:O <--- this is really how I reacted when I saw where you were from

On the field, in USA, are there lots of people seeing Bush totally negatively? Like through intellectuals? How do people see Bush?

[DukeLeto]

Well, "surveys" conducted by FOX News show that 75% of Americans support Bushs's actions...but FOX News is basically the American version of the Iraqi Information Ministry. ::)

Though it's hard to tell how most people see Bush, most of the people I know think he is doing a less-than-spectacular job, to put it mildly.

[Caid Ivik]

What does he bad for his country? You should tell us, because american CNN shows us USA as democratic country of liberty. Maybe you should send a post with common signs of Bush's government and fascist ideology.

Also, if you, Acelethal, are true with those computers, then it could be even worse. There are sooo much viruses...

[Warlord Ripskar]

a significant number of people in Palm Beach that were voting for Al Gore to instead vote for Ralph Naiter.

I say replace them with computers.

Who, the people in Palm Beach or Al Gore and Ralph Naiter? ;)

[Edric O]

Btw, Duke, does this accurately represent the way FOX News works? ;)

Edit: Hmmm... looks like the pic won't display properly all the time...

[Egeides]

An article about the enefficiency of these voting machines would be at http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/11/05/voting_machines/

The programs aren't opensource. It causes problem when someone that OWNS these machines is into the elections, espescially when patches are put. They didn't even say why the patch were put so no one can verify the reliability. The machines aren't letting any trace either. Forget transparency with them.

[Egeides]

Caid Ivik:

I wouldn't start to compare the actual USA with Stalin, Mussolini and Franco's states as being the same, but some dangerous points are to be noted:

- people were fired for their ideas (fired after writing against Bush. Never got complains before)

- Bush administration never released the numbers concerning how many persons were jailed for being Arab or stuff like that, neither how many were deported

- go see the Patriot Act. The government has some new power...

- Bush made the poor even more poor, the rich even richer (espescially the top 500).

- Some people got the visit of FBI without mandate just to verify an "information" (like one of them having a anti-Bush poster. Or a museum exposing negative info about government)

- Journalists and else got their equipment taken by police (a journalist lost his $$$ camera because he took a photograph of Cheney's house. IT THIS A CRIME??? He's not the only case. Some protesters also got trouble)

All what I mentioned here is not illegal in the US. And it's just what I have in my memory... Dissident journalists may have trouble find a job (some said they didn't ever found a job in any well-paying normal journal thereafter). Not because they aren't good at the job: because of their ideas.

[DukeLeto]

What does he bad for his country? You should tell us, because american CNN shows us USA as democratic country of liberty. Maybe you should send a post with common signs of Bush's government and fascist ideology.

The Conservative News Network? Wow, almost as bad as FOX News. Have you people ever wathced, say, MSNBC or C-Span? Or better yet, tried picking up a newspaper? ::)

Let's see:

There was the arrest of thousands of Arabs in San Fransisco, supposedly because they were late to renew their Green Card. But they had significantly less time than any other group. And it's not like anything is being done about the tens of thousands of illegal aliens here in Florida that have been living here for generations without Green Cards!

The Patriot Act; AKA repealing the Bill of Rights. You no longer have any right against unwarrented search and seizure, you no longer have the right to have a trial by jury or a lawyer. Basically, if you're a political enemy of the Administration, or just of ethnic background Bush's little reich doesn't like, they can throw you in Guantanamo with no trial, nothing.

Not fascist enough for you yet? Read on:

OK, as I've said, it's basically gotten to the point where Ashcroft points his finger at you, says "He's a terrorist", and your hauled off to Guantanamo. Well, let's suffice it to say the conditions there are "less than desireable".

All in all:

There's a name for the tactic used to catch terrorists these days. It's "McCarthyism". There's a name for how they justify the war with Iraq. That would be "Jingoism". And how do they keep people in line? "Rule through fear".

[Egeides]

For my personal knowledge, what's jingoism?

PS: Canada silently followed in a softer and (alot) more moderate way with some "anti-terrorist laws" and a few measures (like plane security that makes planes less secure). Canada is a little forced to move actually.

[DukeLeto]

For my personal knowledge, what's jingoism?

jin

[SurlyPIG]

*Bangs head against desk*

So many lies...so much propaganda...so much manipulation...so little time to correct it...so little energy... :-[

You people have a very narrow minded view of computers. I'm not talking about the IMB-style body-monitor-keyboard-mouse computer at ALL! I'm talking about simple, reliable digital machinery that doesn't break down, can stand a lot of travelling and can withstand the test of time. A computer designed specifically for this would be better than anything else at this.

[Egeides]

I don't need to be narrow ACE, I only need to know that what was tryed yet got bad results. If you weren't talking of something that exists NOW, how am i supposed to guess?

[SurlyPIG]

Use your imagination. You've drempt up pleanty of whimsical fantasies before, what's stopping you from imagining a computer made for voting?

[Egeides]

You're judging not looking at the strenght of the sources but looking simply if it's your opinion or not, so no wonder EVERYTHING that's not your opinion will be propaganda or whattever. Most of the planet is saying propaganda these times, from your thinking. My sources aren't less secure than yours.

I gave sources each time, which you didn't. Sources that were journalists, photos, etc. And IIIIII do not start saying people are "idiot", "saying fantasies" or anything, I simply argue.