A prophet without a God

[GUNWOUNDS]

this may be a little off topic............. but the thing that bothers me about atheism is that.....well... how does an atheist not get totally depressed about believing this is their only life??

I mean if you TRULY in your heart believe that you are going to die and that you will exist in nothingness then that is very depressing. If someone were a true atheist they would have to believe that this life is the only one and that would mean that this life has to be extremely valuable to them. So i dont see how an atheist could fight in a war or do anything life-threatening.

[Acriku]

I can only answer for myself, so here we go...

Death is a perfectly natural thing. Death happens just as much as life does, and is the circle of life. I've accepted that (sure depression was an issue for me when I began, but I've come to accept it indifferently). What you are leaning towards is the famous, stupid quote "there are no atheists in foxholes." I think you can see how stupid that quote is when you go to sites like http://www.maaf.info/ or http://www.military.com/HomePage/UnitPageHistory/1,13506,701019%7C700824,00.html or http://www.secularstudents.org/alliances/maaf.html . But if you're not, then go to the sites if you want, they are quite informative if you're interested. In fact, I plan to be a U.S. Marine Corpsman, and if I have to fight in the war, then so be it - but I won't be so eager to go there if I have a choice :)

[TMA_1]

hmmm. athiest network. Its probably as bad as TBN or Daystar. Just different dogma. Probably a bit more annoying and not as funny to listen to.lol

[Acriku]

Go for yourself to find out, listen a while, kick back and enjoy. If your beliefs come in the way of enjoying your session, fine. It was made for atheists anyways :)

[GUNWOUNDS]

Well... let me say this then....if i knew for sure that there was no god and that this earth was all there was... then i would try everything in my power to preserve my life. I see nothing stupid about "no atheist in foxholes" if an atheist is in a foxhole... then he is a fool merely because he is making his already short life even shorter.

Edrico made a good point in a thread long ago about his life feeling meaninigless and barren when he was an atheist. Also he stated that all beliefs have a probability of being true.... so why would one choose the one that offers nothing?

[Acriku]

That may be you, perhaps because you are a theist (which I don't know, possible cautioned assumption) that can't imagine what it is like to be an atheist, I don't know. I used to be a theist, and couldn't imagine death being it - it was horrible to think of an end to my life! But now, after conditioning myself, I found that it's nothing to be scared of or be affected by negatively - cest la vi. The quote is stupid because it asserts a false statement, that there are no atheists in foxholes. And an atheist in the foxhole isn't a fool, from my perspective we all have short lives and just because you are going to die for fighting for something or against something, doesn't make it any less worthy of a good life.

I don't know if Edric is being honest, because I am a strong atheist and I still retain my compassion for others (not to some, where I am indifferent to them and their problems, for various reasons) and honesty and all the ethics I grew up with. There is a possibility that any belief is true, just as there is a possibility to find fossils of mice on Mars. But we must deal with probability, which holds a greater foundation. Atheism does not offer nothing, it offers freedom of thought, oppression, and all of the crazy things that go on in certain religious organizations (e.g. Catholicism, sexual abuse) that people have experienced in their lives. For me, it was a freedom of thought, restraints, and a release of my love for life and its amazing processes and ways. To each his own, I guess.

[TMA_1]

good points gunwounds.

I am glad taht many athiests need their own support groups and networkds just as quasi christians need the silly televangilist tv,radio, and internet resources. it makes the athiests you point out as foolsih as rolling down the isle holly roller christians.

[Cyborg]

if i knew for sure that there was no god and that this earth was all there was... then i would try everything in my power to preserve my life. I see nothing stupid about "no atheist in foxholes" if an atheist is in a foxhole... then he is a fool merely because he is making his already short life even shorter.

Do you care less about your life when believing in life after death?

I don't think there is a life after death, and I don't want to rely on it, so I make this life as good as I can.

It would be sad if you didn't care about your present life because you thought(hoped) there would be a life after death anyway.

The "you see no atheist in foxholes" saying is, to me and in my opinion, ridicolous. When sitting in a foxhole and when your survival depends on luck, I don't think religion matters that much, because everyone are equally afraid of dying, simply because your consciousness is afraid of your body no matter what you believe in.

This is my opinion, though.

[Edric O]

Flooding? In the sites that I have seen in which they do a religious poll, theists have outnumbered atheists in all except infadels.com. I'm sure that there are other atheistic sites, but would wager that there are many more christian sites. The problem is that to a christian fundamentalist like you, when three atheists speak out against you it seems that they are flooding you and ganging up on you, when in fact they are the minority.

Ummmm, no. Here's an example. Notice that there are MORE atheists than all the theists put together.

Maybe we just go to different sites. The ones I visit are mostly related to politics. And they are the ones being "flooded" (so to speak) by atheists.

And try to pay a little more attention to my arguments from now on. If I qualify as "fundamentalist", then I guess the world must be some sort of extremely politically correct Star Trek-ish perfect utopia... :)

That may be the weakest argument I have read from you Edric, and that's saying a lot. ;) Christian theme parks spew christian propoganda at it's visitors. The theme of the park is based on christianity. Disney world does not spew out atheistic rhetoric at it's tourists.

Yes, I'm sure all right-wing warmongering fascists consider my arguments to be pathetic and weak. ;)

Now, since atheism means only the lack of a religious belief, how are non-religious theme parks not atheist?

(in case you haven't noticed yet, this argument is meant to be sarcastic)

Yeah, Christian radio shows are to create and spread lies. Atheistic radio shows are made to destroy those lies and free us from the shackles of religion.

In other words, "we are right and you are wrong". What a brilliant, amazingly intellectual and perfectly logical argument! ::)

But tell me, why is this business of forcing your version of "freedom" on everyone so prevalent in your way of thinking? First Iraq, now religion... everyone has to be "free", and they have to be "free" YOUR WAY! Why don't you "free" them from life while you're at it? ::)

I can tell you right now, that the internet is my only exposure to atheistic viewpoints. There are NO shows, NO ads, NO preachers, NO public debate. It is VERY one-sided. Maybe it's different elsewhere, but not here.

Alright, I'll grant you that. But such places are extremely rare these days, especially in the western world.

Tusche. ;)

However, atheistic ones are much fewer and farther between than theistic ones.

Of course they are. But they make up for it by killing loads more people. In fact, atheist dictators have managed to kill more people in a single century than all Christians in all of history combined! Now THAT's an achievement!

But I will grant you that any spiritual ideology can be perverted and dangerous, especially when coupled with political ideology.

Yes, I'm glad you finally agree. All of them can be used as excuses for murder, and atheism is no exception.

[Edric O]

If your beliefs are all you stand for Edric, you may find yourself falling to the ground in the storm of science and logic.

And I thought we discussed that those murderers were not doing it in the name of atheism, but in the name of their political stance, mostly communism? Seems you've forgotten. Oh well, that's why I'm here. :)

Science and logic, Acriku? They are my allies. They will ultimately win the battle against capitalist oppression and exploitation, as Mankind reaches a higher stage of civilization.

As for those murders, they were done BOTH in the name of atheism and communism. You can't have it both ways, Acriku. Either all beliefs and ideologies are guilty for the crimes commited in their name, or none of them are. No matter which one you chose, atheism is no better than Christianity, and capitalism is no better than communism.

[Acriku]

Using your logic, the murders were also done in the name of white people, people with mustaches, and people who live in Russia. ::)

[TMA_1]

make up your choice. are you guys a united entity? or are you just completely independant of eachother? (meaning athiests) You seem to want to have it both ways. You want to conform and meet with those of like minds and combine that together for a force of good. you also dont want to have any social association with athiests as well, you dont want to take any of the heat, while wanting to have flawless ideals. Athiesm should be independant, but it is one of those things that makes athiesm like holy roller christianity. and athiesm is not the lack of belief. that is an agnostic. stop shoving that idiotic idea that is not held by anybody important person. good grief!

[Acriku]

Blah-blah-blah. TMA you must be a slave to atheism for your repetitive posts against atheism! ::)

We can have it both ways. You don't understand that at all. We can have commonalities such as our opinions of religion, and superstition, but then again political stances are very various, and such issues as social security, or the military. We even have differences on our opinions in religion. Some atheists can find a lot of similarities, some may hate each other for some reason, some may find nothing in common beyond the lack of belief in a god or gods. And atheism is the lack of belief, if you say otherwise you are just being extremely stubborn and ignorant - like that stone face from the internet characters. An agnostic is also the lack of belief, but it doesn't deal with that issue, it deals with knowledge. And why should atheism be anything you say it should be? Good grief ::)

[TMA_1]

I am not attacking athiesm. I am attacking your warped view of athiesm.

[TMA_1]

I am not against athiesm, I am against your warped view of athiesm. not a slave, gob is forcing me to cut down. he says that "I shouldnt make debates worse". beh.lol oh well if I dont I would be disrespecful and it isnt a moderator-like thing to do. I just give up on you man. I have tried every way to explain. you never listen. whats worse, you then barb me and then when I retort you narc on me for retaliation. silly silly boy. I just wont debate you anymore.

[Edric O]

Using your logic, the murders were also done in the name of white people, people with mustaches, and people who live in Russia.

Oh, so I guess all those Christian priests and monks who were slaughtered for not renouncing their faith do NOT count as being killed in the name of atheism? Monasteries were NOT ransacked in the name of atheism? Religion was NOT outlawed in the name of atheism? ::)

[SurlyPIG]

Interfaith fighting Edric. It's nothing new. If you're willing to die for your beliefs and you travel to a place full of people who would kill for their beliefs and try and convert them, what else did you expect to happen? I condemn it but it's reality.

[Acriku]

No it wasn't, and it turned 180 degrees around when the people converted to christianity when the government became christianity, killing paganas and heretics.

[sneezer3]

Wasn't that the catholics?

(you said christianity small diffrance.)

[Acriku]

Was Constantinople catholic? If so, I apologize and edit my post.

[Edric O]

Acriku, I was talking about STALIN'S SOVIET UNION, not ancient Rome!

[Acriku]

Pardone moi, monsieur. Well then, they were slaughtered because they were a threat to the communist regime, threat to the politics, and a threat to his country. That's why he killed them. Not because of atheism. Because of communism. Religion was a threat to communism, so he removed them. That simple.

[SurlyPIG]

Says a lot about communism doesn't it...

If you are going to say that Stalin killed for Atheism then you could argue Hitler killed for Christianity because he was Christian for most of his life.

[TMA_1]

hmm you are wrong there ace. but you could bring up another example and be correct, such as andrew jackson, who was a christian but killed thousands upon thousands of native americans.

[SurlyPIG]

Yes, that would be a better example.