Labeling Atheism

[emprworm]

Have you grown weary of Atheist cliches?

Let me give you a common one:

"There is no set doctrine for atheism, therefore all attempts to label atheists are false."

This cliche, though nice and fluffy sounding on the surface, is really a pseudo-ploy designed to make atheists (fully compartmentable) seem like slippery bannana peels.

The truth is that NO ONE....most ESPECIALLY Christianity can be labeled and defined to hold unanimous beliefs. Of all belief systems, philosophies and world views on the planet....Christianity is one of the most impervious to the attempt at stereotyping.

Yet we can still classify Christian philosophies.

But how?

Simply by saying that certain beliefs are COMMON AMONG Christians. Never do we say certain beliefs are UNANIMOUS among Christians.

IN THE SAME WAY

Certain things are COMMON AMONG atheists, like:

naturalism = true, default

God is logically equal to an IPU

moral relativism = true, default

evolution from non life = true

advanced alien life = more likely to exist than less likely to exist

Biblical God = Tyrant (or worse)

these things above are quite common in atheism. I would argue that if you took every self-professing atheist in the world, they would be MORE in agreement with those 6 points then you would if you took every professing Christian in the world and asked them if they agreed on the 5 points of Calvinism.

CONCLUSION:

Atheists like to make us think they are unique in the realm of anthropological classification techniques. They condone the idea of classification of every other group of people that share similar world views....EXCEPT themselves. Even though it is undeniably certain and irrefutable that they themselves are fully classifiable...they like to put up their little cliche mask and try to slither away.

But they cant

With the same degree of accuracy that we can make generalized classifications on Christians, we can also do so on atheists...regardless of the mindless hot air they try to spew to avoid such obvious classifications.

Note: Any atheist that responds to me will agree with (most likely) all six points I listed.

[SurlyPIG]

Wow...I neve expected this, even from you. Don't you see anything the least bit hypocritical about your post? In it you vehemently declare all atheists fit into your little category yet denounce anyone who tries to categorically fit people from your religion anywhere, despite international assotiations of such people, a written doctrine and seclusive comminuties of such people. In another thread you denounce the judgement of a your religion based on historical madment while doing the very same thing to atheists by mentioning the rather sketchy life of Mao Ze Dong.

I'll bet that none of the atheists on your board fit all or sometimes even half of those generalizations of yours. I know I certainly don't. Some may share them but not in any dominating way.

I notice that you called the statement (most often used by Acriku and I) a pseudo-ploy, yet differing from your usual manner did not elaborate on how it was illogical. There is no fallacy in such a statement.

Never once have I claimed that ANY group in society could be absolutely judged compared to one another. But since you mentioned Christianity, would it be too much to assume that they almost universally share SOME ideas? Perhaps one might assume nearly all Christians believe in the Christian-Jeudo God? Or that they believe Jesus was the savior to mankind? Or that they hold the Bible to be true on some level (whether literal or metaphorical)? You obviously don't know many atheists if you think those conceptions hold true to all or even most atheists.

There are several things to be stereotyped, but atheists, by their very definition can't be stereotyped past any extent of 'they do not believe in any deity.' Do you dispute this?

[emprworm]

Now, prepare yourself for supernatural magic. Since there is no way atheists can be classified with a degree of probability greater than the percentage of atheists, these questions MUST represent a supernatural, mystical and magical combination. By answering these questions, we can identify atheists and/or agnostics and/or naturalists with a high degree of probability. The ONLY explanation for this success MUST be that the questions themselves are magical and supernaturally charged (since those itty bwitty atheists are immune to classification, I can think of no other explanation why these questions are so successful).

SUPERNATURAL ATHEIST/AGNOSTIC/NATURALIST CLASSIFICATION TEST

FOR EACH QUESTION ANSWER "AGREE" OR "DISAGREE"

1. Life most likely evolved from non-life

2. The existence of the Judeo-Christian God is no more logical than that of an invisible pink unicorn or a sentient supernatural purple space bunny.

3. God, as described in the Bible, is a tyrant or worse.

4. Atheists / agnostics / naturalists cannot be classified

5. Advanced alien life is more likely to exist than it does not

6. To claim "God exists" is an extradinary claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

7. There is no absolute moral law of right and wrong.

8. The universe does not need a creator

9. Science and religion are mutually exclusive

10. The Bible is full of contradictions

11. Religion is to blame for much of the world's violent history

12. There is no evidence (or very little) for God

13. Atheists in the US, Europe, and Canada who argue mainly against Christianity do so simply because of the logical conclusion that Christianity is the dominant religion there.

14. Theists have the burden of proof.

SCORECARD:

If a person answers "AGREE" to 7 or more questions, that person can be emphatically labelled as an atheist and/or naturalist and/or agnostic.

If a person answers "I DONT KNOW" or some other Clintonizing, Hillarying contorting weasle answer as to defeat the question and slime his way out of answering "AGREE OR DISAGREE"- and that slimeball does this with 5 or more questions- that person can be summarily ruled an atheist and/or naturalist and/or agnostic. In fact, it is HIGHLY likely that ANY atheist/agnostic/naturalist taking this test will weasle his way out of at least one question. Probability of an atheist/agnostic/naturalist weaseling out of a question: 70%.

We can categorize atheists here and now: 7 out of 10 (or more) atheists/agnostics/naturalists will weasel out of at least one question on the test.

THIS TEST CAN SUMMARILY COMPARTMENTALIZE ATHEISTS WITH A SUCCESS RATE FAR GREATER THAN THE PERCENTAGE OF ATHIESTS.

Proof that either:

A) atheists and/or naturalists and/or agnostics can be categorized

OR

B) The test is supernatural and full of mystical magic power.

Hmmm.....maybe the answer is B? lol! ha ha. :D ::)

oh, by the way, Ace. how you score on that test? I got you pegged, no? ;)

[DukeLeto]

Thiest Staement of Faith

If you answer yes to 7 or more of these, you are a theist (Replace "Christian" with your religion.).

1. I find it perfectly logical that some supernatural being controls my destiny.

2. There is plenty of proof God exists.

3. Evolution is nonsence.

4. I don't believe in the "Big Bang"...what a load of cr*p. "Big bang". How stupid...

5. Morality, as based on the Christian faith, should be law.

6. Non-christians are going to hell. All of them, regardless of how they have spent their life.

7. The government should mandate religion; it should be a law that everyone be Christian.

8. Athiests have no morals.

9. Homosexuals are immoral.

10. Blacks are immoral.

11. Native Americans are immoral.

12. Arabs are immoral.

13. All non-Christians should be converted.

14. If they don't convert, they should be persecuted or worse.

15. If they still refuse to convert, hang the bastards.

---

See Emprworm, anyone can make up a stupid "Test" and fill it with loaded questions. ::)

Oh yeah, good job weaseling in an attack on liberals/Democrats with that last post. ::)

[emprworm]

Thiest Staement of Faith

If you answer yes to 7 or more of these, you are a theist (Replace "Christian" with your religion.).

well duh! Christians, in a general sense, can be easily classified. Duh! :P duh! ::) duh! :O

although your test is completely wrong. i only answered 4 with agree. and I am a theist.

and, btw, my test is extremely accurate and it will NAIL DOWN an atheist/agnostic/naturalist with precision. An atheist may have no ability to identify another atheist based upon certain beliefs, but I can. Maybe I have a magical ability....no? All i know is that where the impotent atheists are unable to identify their own....I can lend them a hand, and help out the atheist "brotherhood" because for some reason, the universe has "blessed" me with this supernatural ability to identify atheists with extreme accuracy.

[DukeLeto]

Just curious, which ones did you answer yes to? I thought for sure it would be at least: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 13, 14, maybe 15. ;)

[emprworm]

Just curious, which ones did you answer yes to? I thought for sure it would be at least: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 13, 14, maybe 15. ;)

well it was only 4. so your test has some serious flaws in it.

but remember, I am not contending that Christians cannot be labelled according to beliefs. It is the idiotic nonsense that atheists continually spew that they are somehow immune to such classification that I argue. THe funny thing is...I can classify atheists probably easier than I could with any religion on earth.

[DukeLeto]

This ought to be good. ;)

Edit: Ah, Emprworm got done before I could post. :'(

Anyways, Emprworm, just out of curiosity, which ones did you answer yes to?[attachment archived by Gobalopper]

[Acriku]

1. Life most likely evolved from non-life YES

2. The existence of the Judeo-Christian God is no more logical than that of an invisible pink unicorn or a sentient supernatural purple space bunny. YES

3. God, as described in the Bible, is a tyrant or worse. Which bible? There are so many, perhaps the Mormon bible?

4. Atheists / agnostics / naturalists cannot be classified NO - atleast only by their lack of belief in god(s)

5. Advanced alien life is more likely to exist than it does not NO - not enough data, and I have no idea

6. To claim "God exists" is an extradinary claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence NO - but even with actual evidence you fail

7. There is no absolute moral law of right and wrong. HELL YES

8. The universe does not need a creator NO it does not need a creator

9. Science and religion are mutually exclusive NO - depends on how orthodox you are, for example a deist believes god set everything in motion (science as we know it) and backed off

10. The Bible is full of contradictionsWhich bible? The KJV? YES

11. Religion is to blame for much of the world's violent historyNot all religion, so NO

12. There is no evidence (or very little) for GodHELL YES BABY

13. Atheists in the US, Europe, and Canada who argue mainly against Christianity do so simply because of the logical conclusion that Christianity is the dominant religion there. NO - only because that may not be the reason.

14. Theists have the burden of proof. Is this even a serious question? OF COURSE

Some of these questions have no bearing on theism or atheism - such as 14, 13, 12, 11, 9, 8, 6, 5, 4, 2, 1. I can explain these if you want, but I hope it's obvious enough to understand why.

HELL YES BABY = Duh?

HELL YES = extremely agree

YES = Agree

NO = Disagree

[emprworm]

ACRIKU'S SCORE:

1. Life most likely evolved from non-life YES

2. The existence of the Judeo-Christian God is no more logical than that of an invisible pink unicorn or a sentient supernatural purple space bunny. YES

3. God, as described in the Bible, is a tyrant or worse. Which bible? There are so many, perhaps the Mormon bible?

A clintonizing Hillary weasle. There is no such thing as the "Mormon Bible". Its title is "The Book of Mormon". This question counts as a dodge and will be combined with your AGREE statements. I know of only one book titled "The Bible", but if it helps, next time will will insert the word "Holy" between "The" and "Bible"

4. Atheists / agnostics / naturalists cannot be classified NO - atleast only by their lack of belief in god(s)

no as in "They cannot be classified?" or no as in "they CAN be classified?" this answer is confusing. but I'll give you a DISAGREE on this one meaning that atheists CAN be classified.

5. Advanced alien life is more likely to exist than it does not NO - not enough data, and I have no idea

6. To claim "God exists" is an extradinary claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence NO - but even with actual evidence you fail

7. There is no absolute moral law of right and wrong. HELL YES

8. The universe does not need a creator NO it does not need a creator

9. Science and religion are mutually exclusive NO - depends on how orthodox you are, for example a deist believes god set everything in motion (science as we know it) and backed off

10. The Bible is full of contradictionsWhich bible? The KJV? YES

11. Religion is to blame for much of the world's violent historyNot all religion, so NO

12. There is no evidence (or very little) for GodHELL YES BABY

13. Atheists in the US, Europe, and Canada who argue mainly against Christianity do so simply because of the logical conclusion that Christianity is the dominant religion there. NO - only because that may not be the reason.

14. Theists have the burden of proof. Is this even a serious question? OF COURSE

lets see...totaling it up....you AGREE with 9 out of 14....and most likely 11 out of 14. You have been classified as "ATHEIST"

but one note: your answer to #4 as a DISAGREE alone supports the entire theory of this test.

This test is accurate.

[Acriku]

ACRIKU'S SCORE:

Ah...the antici - pation :)

A clintonizing Hillary weasle. There is no such thing as the "Mormon Bible". Its title is "The Book of Mormon". This question counts as a dodge and will be combined with your AGREE statements. I know of only one book titled "The Bible", but if it helps, next time will will insert the word "Holy" between "The" and "Bible"

Ok, the Book of Mormon, my bad. But the question is still very relevant. There is not only one book called the bible, there are many translations that are different - so which one do you mean? (Note: go into a christian book store, and ask for THE bible. The clerk will then ask you - which one?) In the Holy Bible (I don't know if that makes a difference), I'll tell you when I read the Holy Bible in its fullest (since you seem to get antsy and whine that I didn't read the bible, how do you expect me to answer this question? Or is this one of those that don't require reading it?)

no as in "They cannot be classified?" or no as in "they CAN be classified?" this answer is confusing. but I'll give you a DISAGREE on this one meaning that atheists CAN be classified.

In my legend, NO means disagree. Atheists can and only can be classified by their lack of belief in god(s). Anything further adds to what isn't there.

lets see...totaling it up....you AGREE with 9 out of 14....and most likely 11 out of 14. You have been classified as "ATHEIST"

but one note: your answer to #4 as a DISAGREE alone supports the entire theory of this test.

This test is accurate.

Ad notum, I explained why I disagreed - so it really doesn't support this test.

This test is not accurate - perhaps I should explain why the questions I listed do not classify as either atheist or theist?

Some of these questions have no bearing on theism or atheism - such as 14, 13, 12, 11, 9, 8, 6, 5, 4, 2, 1. I can explain these if you want, but I hope it's obvious enough to understand why.

14 - A theist can understand that they have the burden of proof, and remain in their theism.

13 - This is an observation that is not in contradiction nor inclusiveness with either theism or atheism.

12 - Faith. The belief without evidence. Many theists subscribe to the faith system, and admit there is no evidence for god. That is why they have and rely on their faith.

11 - This question is very general, but anyone can see that without religion, the actions committed by religious people because of their religion, that religion is one of the causes (some may not want to admit it to themselves, though).

9 - Some fundamentalist theists believe this, and choose to ignore science because they might believe that it plagues faith or the bible, or god.

8 - They can accept this, and still say that it did have one, but didn't need one.

6 - Theists believe the bible, life all around them, is extraordinary evidence for god. They can say all of this is required to prove the claim, and believe it is proven.

5 - Raelians. Enough said.

4 - Nothing to do with theism or against theism. Does not require a theist to not be a theist if s/he understands this, like all white people can't be classified because they lack the pigment to be black (like all atheists can't be classified because they lack the belief to be theist).

2 - Some do not need logic. All it takes is faith.

1 - Deists believe that god made everything, set it in motion, and left the scene. Deists can believe that live evolved (developed, not created) from non-life (Hell, Edric does).

So, is your test accurate, or not?

[emprworm]

"Atheists can and only can be classified by their lack of belief in god(s). Anything further adds to what isn't there"

you can doctor up my post all you want, Acriku. You still wont change the fact that I can classify atheists. I CAN do it easily.

Now, maybe I have a supernatural ability?

So you are impotent in this matter and unable to identify an atheist? Fine. That is YOU.

As for ME, however, I **CAN** identify them. And do so easily. Easier than I can identify a Christian. If you pass 20 atheists before me, I will be able to identify MORE common views among the ATHEISTS then I would be able to with 20 professing Christians.

only about 12% of the population is atheist. According to pure probability I should be able to identify no more than 12 out of 100.

Now we have a truth here:

TRUTH: Only 12% (a VERY liberal estimate) of the US population is atheistic. According to probability, in a double blind test where 100 atheists are in a room and 100 theists are in another room, I should be only able to identify 12 out of 100 people as atheists in the room that contains atheists.

Yet I could identify most likely 90% of them.

I have this ability....whether you like it or not, I can do this...EASILY.

Now, you are forced with a difficult choice: either I have a supernatural ability....or Atheism has some views common to many other atheists.

Ironically, when trying to classify Christians based on common beliefs, it is much more challenging. Apart from some general belief that an inspired man named Jesus once existed, there is no unanimous belief common to all professing Christians that I can pin down.

not so with the easily classifiable atheists.

i guess I have a supernatural power then?

[Acriku]

This is pretty funny, actually. Were you born in the 1800s? You sure act like it.

[emprworm]

perhaps i have a supernatural ability. or perhaps you are just not smart enough.

either way...I can identify atheists....and do so easily.

even easier than i can identify Christians.

[Cyborg]

only about 12% of the population is atheist. According to pure probability I should be able to identify no more than 12 out of 100.

But the number of christians are falling...(until Acricu uses the very same argument agains you, emprworm)

The number of atheists should be increasing, I think.

[emprworm]

only about 12% of the population is atheist. According to pure probability I should be able to identify no more than 12 out of 100.

But the number of christians are falling...(until Acricu uses the very same argument agains you, emprworm)

The number of atheists should be increasing, I think.

i am not claiming christians cannot be classified according to common beliefs. duh! ::) :P

[Acriku]

Only because they have a common book, the bible, atheists do not.

[emprworm]

you dont need a common book to be pinned down.

hindus have no common book. some MAY follow the veda's...most have never even read one, let alone know what they teach. Common books are irrelevant.

atheists have much more in common than simply lack of belief in god(s)

[DukeLeto]

Such as? I'm intrigued that you can better classify Athiests than most Athiests. ::)

[IxianMace]

FOR EACH QUESTION ANSWER "AGREE" OR "DISAGREE"

1. Life most likely evolved from non-life AGREE

2. The existence of the Judeo-Christian God is no more logical than that of an invisible pink unicorn or a sentient supernatural purple space bunny. AGREE

3. God, as described in the Bible, is a tyrant or worse. Haven't read bible, unable to answer

4. Atheists / agnostics / naturalists cannot be classified DISAGREE

5. Advanced alien life is more likely to exist than it does not AGREE

6. To claim "God exists" is an extraodinary claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence AGREE

7. There is no absolute moral law of right and wrong. AGREE

8. The universe does not need a creator AGREE

9. Science and religion are mutually exclusive AGREE

10. The Bible is full of contradictions Haven't read bible, unable to answer

11. Religion is to blame for much of the world's violent history DISAGREE

12. There is no evidence (or very little) for God AGREE

13. Atheists in the US, Europe, and Canada who argue mainly against Christianity do so simply because of the logical conclusion that Christianity is the dominant religion there. Undecided

14. Theists have the burden of proof. DISAGREE

[DukeLeto]

FOR EACH QUESTION ANSWER "AGREE" OR "DISAGREE"

1. Life most likely evolved from non-life AGREE

2. The existence of the Judeo-Christian God is no more logical than that of an invisible pink unicorn or a sentient supernatural purple space bunny. AGREE

3. God, as described in the Bible, is a tyrant or worse. AGREE

4. Atheists / agnostics / naturalists cannot be classified ONLY BY NOT BELIEVING IN GOD

5. Advanced alien life is more likely to exist than it does not AGREE

6. To claim "God exists" is an extraodinary claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence AGREE

7. There is no absolute moral law of right and wrong. AGREE

8. The universe does not need a creator AGREE

9. Science and religion are mutually exclusive AGREE

10. The Bible is full of contradictions NEVER READ IT

11. Religion is to blame for much of the world's violent history AGREE

12. There is no evidence (or very little) for God AGREE

13. Atheists in the US, Europe, and Canada who argue mainly against Christianity do so simply because of the logical conclusion that Christianity is the dominant religion there. AGREE

14. Theists have the burden of proof. DON'T UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION. HOW CaN YOU BE BURDENED BY SOMETHING YOU DON'T HAVE?

[Cyborg]

1. Life most likely evolved from non-life AGREE

2. The existence of the Judeo-Christian God is no more logical than that of an invisible pink unicorn or a sentient supernatural purple space bunny. AGREE

3. God, as described in the Bible, is a tyrant or worse. AGREE

4. Atheists / agnostics / naturalists cannot be classified DISAGREE

5. Advanced alien life is more likely to exist than it does not AGREE

6. To claim "God exists" is an extradinary claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence AGREE

7. There is no absolute moral law of right and wrong. AGREE

8. The universe does not need a creator AGREE

9. Science and religion are mutually exclusive AGREE

10. The Bible is full of contradictions Haven't read it. Don't plan to either

11. Religion is to blame for much of the world's violent history AGREE

12. There is no evidence (or very little) for God AGREE

13. Atheists in the US, Europe, and Canada who argue mainly against Christianity do so simply because of the logical conclusion that Christianity is the dominant religion there. AGREE

14. Theists have the burden of proof. DISAGREE

Some of your questions were impossible to answer with an AGREE or DISAGREE, because I wanted to answer something in the middle. However, I chose the answer my opinion slightly tilted towards.

One question, although 90% AGREE, was turned into DISAGREE because of the 10%...

[Acriku]

So, now empr says: All atheists, all of you!

[Miles]

Hey, I can come up with a much better test than yours emprworm. Maybe I have superpowers. I don't know, you tell me.

I will put a mix of atheists, agnostics and theists into a room and ask them one question. "Do you believe that God exists?" The ones that answer yes are theists, the ones that answer no are atheists, the ones that answer I don't know, are agnostics. I'll bet my percentage is much higher than 90%. ;)

Of course atheists and theists can be labeled in general terms, and even some beliefs might be common to many, but your problem, as I have seen in other threads, is that you try to say that these common beliefs are necessary to atheism. This is false. One can disbelieve in the existance of God and beleive that aliens do not exist, evolution is false, or answer no to most of your questions. However, many of those are natural conclusions of a rational person once freed from the blinding faith that religion requires. They tend to be a consequence of atheistic belief, not the cause.

[emprworm]

Hey, I can come up with a much better test than yours emprworm. Maybe I have superpowers. I don't know, you tell me.

I will put a mix of atheists, agnostics and theists into a room and ask them one question. "Do you believe that God exists?" The ones that answer yes are theists, the ones that answer no are atheists, the ones that answer I don't know, are agnostics. I'll bet my percentage is much higher than 90%. ;)

Of course atheists and theists can be labeled in general terms, and even some beliefs might be common to many, but your problem, as I have seen in other threads, is that you try to say that these common beliefs are necessary to atheism. This is false. One can disbelieve in the existance of God and beleive that aliens do not exist, evolution is false, or answer no to most of your questions. However, many of those are natural conclusions of a rational person once freed from the blinding faith that religion requires. They tend to be a consequence of atheistic belief, not the cause.

problem with your test, is that we already know that "atheism" entails the universal property that all atheists have a lack of belief in god(s). What makes my ability so amazing, is that I can identify atheists using other properties that are not universal....just very common.