Pax Americana

[Davidu]

So, ermprworm is back...

What were you saying about Romania? If we had US' power? Well, I really don't see how we could control the whole asian continent. ;D But sounds pretty appealing.

Now really... if Ceausescu had US' power, then that would be a problem, but the present Guvernement holds no threat against the world.

Are you comparing us with Iraq? >:(

[Caid Ivik]

He used Romania, because EdricO is from there too. But be honest - do you think your country is a picture of stabile ethernal democracy? You haven't it for more than 12 years, what is less against USA's 230 years...

[Egeides]

Davidu, how do you see the actual situation of Romania presently? How do you see its future in liberal capitalism?

It's pretty useful to see what future less predominant countries have in a world system I believe promotes the rich.

[Egeides]

Caid, now not everyone believes US democracy is really "demo - cracy" -> power to population, but rather some systems with its problems with corporations that have lots of power and paying campaigns.

[Davidu]

Well, it's not "la vie en rose" around here. Democracy, you say? I say top-corruption, high taxes, idiotic laws... But that's just the politicians that once were in the communist party before 1989. Iliescu, Nastase (I think) were party members. So, there's nothing new... the same kind of people rule us, but under a different regime.

Egeides, you're Canadian, so you have surely seen quite a lot of Romanians in Montreal, and other important Canadian cities. Ask them why they left...

Our future? Well, we need new people, with new ideas, people that can see the big picture and who would try to take the economic pressure of the population. The Czech republic, Hungary, Slovakia, Poland are countries that managed to earn a decent level of democracy, and of economic developement. They all are smaller than Romania (exept Poland). I don't think all of them have the resources we have, but they managed those resources they had well eough to prosper. Our Guvernement did the worst things to the economy.

We still have a long jurney ahead, and I don't know how we'll prosper if so many people leave the country (between 1990 and 2002 1 million people left Romania, and I think 750.000 ended in Canada ;D ).

As for me, I won't be able to leave Romania, I'd feel like a traitor.

[nampigai]

actually Romania is on the European continent.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

It doesn't have to be a part of Europe. Just because we humans made a map of the world, doesn't mean that the guy which made the map is right.

Russia for example could be Asian, even though people claims it that Russia is Europian.

Climate and Religion has great influence on a country.

And I am sure of it, that America can be beaten if alot of strong countries will team up with eachother.

[Acriku]

That'd never happen, because 1) there would be no reason to do so; 2) the offensive countries will be so drained of their resources that they will most undoubtedly suspect other countries to invade their weakness; 3) unnecessary death. It'd be stupid to invade America, especially when our location is so strategically beneficial.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

1( I said "IF" they are going at war. 2( You can say the same to America, the old world and new world has both many resources.

3( Yet again, you can same the same to the Americans. But there are always some gaps in the defenses and logics. But America could have a hard time defending troops from both air, land, water.

Both sides will get many casualties.

But ofcourse, we can talk about it all the time. But we both cannot proof what the outcome will be....

[Acriku]

I think it's safe to say that there would be a lot of deaths.

[nampigai]

Well Kirov if you look at the continental plates the place where the european continent and the asian divede is at the Urals, and offcourse it's something humans though of, it's not like each plate has an eticette saying this is Europe and this is Australia.

[Caid Ivik]

The Czech republic, Hungary, Slovakia, Poland are countries that managed to earn a decent level of democracy, and of economic developement. They all are smaller than Romania (exept Poland). I don't think all of them have the resources we have, but they managed those resources they had well eough to prosper. Our Guvernement did the worst things to the economy.

We have many demagogues, which may shit on democracy in future here too. In Hungary there was Orban, in Poland are powerful communists, in Czechs too, also they are strengthening in Slovakia. But if there is a TRY, West will approtiate it, and help if it can. Maybe Romania will, however, join EU some years after us, but what are 3-5 years? Short time, you even won't see how quickly it comes.

Caid, now not everyone believes US democracy is really "demo - cracy" -> power to population, but rather some systems with its problems with corporations that have lots of power and paying campaigns.

Companies pay every party, from what do you think your canadian democrats made such campaigns? Do they pay money to you, voters, or to parties, which just want to lure you? I see no problem.

[Edric O]

It would be a dream come true if true communism regained its lost strength in Europe. But you see, the fall of the Iron Curtain was in many ways a good thing for communism. As long as half the world remained under the Soviet boot, there could be no true communism anywhere (any attempts would be taken over by the Soviets). Now stalinism is dead, and only true communism remains (although scattered and divided). We're back to where we were in 1900.

Davidu is right about the current situation in Romania. The irony of it is that our greatest capitalists and champions of the free market used to be high-ranking Party officials until 1989. Just goes to show how strong their convictions were. ::)

Emprworm:

"The USA has de facto control over the entire world."

THank goodness it wasn't Hussein that had this control.

Of all the nations on earth....one will always be the most powerful. Right now, the US has the most power. I am so thankful to GOD that it wasn't Hussein that had that power. If I had to choose a nation to give all the power of the US to, I would choose the US. They do not use their power to conquer. If HUssein had the US's power, or Romania had the US's power, the entire asian continent would be under a dicatorial empire. World soon to follow.

Please tell me that you at least know where Romania is... ::)

As for your presumption that we would create a dictatorial empire, all I can say is that I expected no better from a close-minded racist hatemonger like yourself.

Now how about not giving such absolute power to ANY nation? Have you ever thought of that? If I had to choose a nation to give all the power of the US to, I would choose NONE. No single nation should rule the world.

Oh, and Caid, Romania has been a democracy for a total of 84 years:

1877-1938

1990-2003

[Caid Ivik]

84 years? Then I can say Slovakia is a 135-year old country (622-680, 845-906, 1939-1945, 1993-2003) ;D Anyway, no nation has the right to rule. No nation has any right. Nationality itself just an imagination, only thing which can rule is state. And if I could choose between communistic or democratic state, I would choose that one, which gives most responsibility and power to my own hands - and this can be ensured only by good old middleright-wing democracy.

[Edric O]

Those 84 years are just for the modern nation-state of Romania, after we achieved independence from the Ottoman Empire in 1877. And remember, I only counted the periods of democracy.

Do you want a full count of all our periods of independence, including the Middle Ages and the modern dictatorships? Let's see...

(not counting the various short-lived Dark Age kingdoms)

1330-1714

1877-2003

Well, it looks like that makes a full 500 years! :)

I completely agree with you about nations, but I was using the word "nation" with the meaning of "state". And I was talking about one state having absolute power over the world, as the US has now. I'm saying that NO state should have that kind of power over others.

[emprworm]

It would be a dream come true if true communism regained its lost strength in Europe. But you see, the fall of the Iron Curtain was in many ways a good thing for communism. As long as half the world remained under the Soviet boot, there could be no true communism anywhere (any attempts would be taken over by the Soviets). Now stalinism is dead, and only true communism remains (although scattered and divided). We're back to where we were in 1900.

Davidu is right about the current situation in Romania. The irony of it is that our greatest capitalists and champions of the free market used to be high-ranking Party officials until 1989. Just goes to show how strong their convictions were. ::)

Emprworm:

"The USA has de facto control over the entire world."

THank goodness it wasn't Hussein that had this control.

Of all the nations on earth....one will always be the most powerful. Right now, the US has the most power. I am so thankful to GOD that it wasn't Hussein that had that power. If I had to choose a nation to give all the power of the US to, I would choose the US. They do not use their power to conquer. If HUssein had the US's power, or Romania had the US's power, the entire asian continent would be under a dicatorial empire. World soon to follow.

Please tell me that you at least know where Romania is... ::)

As for your presumption that we would create a dictatorial empire, all I can say is that I expected no better from a close-minded racist hatemonger like yourself.

Now how about not giving such absolute power to ANY nation? Have you ever thought of that? If I had to choose a nation to give all the power of the US to, I would choose NONE. No single nation should rule the world.

Oh, and Caid, Romania has been a democracy for a total of 84 years:

1877-1938

1990-2003

lol! Power is not something "given" to. We simply set up a desirable society that allowed science and technology to flourish. The US is BY FAR the most diverse nation on earth. We are a nation of Japanese, Cherokee, Australians, French, Brits, Mexicans, Chinese, Romanians, Russians, Egyptians, Nigerians, Malaysians, Colombians, Canadians, Dutch, Danish, Italians, Germans.....every race, every religion, every tribe from every continent from every country on earth flocks here...as a result, we have the largest intellectual pool of humanity to draw from more than any other country. This unmatched, unparralled diversity coupled with freedom of religion and expression spawned massive advancement with the natural result of being more powerful than those countries still in stone age bickering and tinkering around with mindless oppressive communistic philosophy.

If ROmanai had ALL THE SUPERPOWER that the US has....(as in all the technology, scientists, nukes) internally....the world would be destroyed. WHy? Because Romania is not good enough to prevent this: 1937-1989

Because Romania is susceptible to 1937-1989 makes me exceedingly grateful that ROmania does not even have 1/1000th of the power of the US.

Now how about not giving such absolute power to ANY nation?

lol! That is the utter flaw in your reasoning. We are powerful because we simply developed it. Those patriot missles, for example....developed by good ole' USA. Romania needs "handouts" to get powerful. And this is not power at all. It is weakness. If a country needs to be "given" power, then it is indeed weak.

Romania is FREE to develop all the technology it wants. If it has a desirable enough society such that scientists flock there from all over the world, then through its OWN WORK, maybe it will one day be more powerful than the US.

Power is simply this: ABILITY

Romania has no ability, apart from what other nations give it.

My point is: THANK GOD that nations like Iraq have LITTLE ability. The ability of the US....if in the hands of most other countries....would be the collapse of us all.

[Egeides]

"freedom of religion and expression"

So much for the present administration prefering to give money to Christian organizations. Or for the bunch of journalists that were fired in the last year. Some journalists cannot publish in the US, some of them having the Pulitzer prize and nobel prizes. Liberty of expression is when you can get it printed, whattever your ideas are.

[Davidu]

EmprWorm, how can I tell you this?

We produce fighters - our own models since before WWII. We are pioneers in aviation, like your Wright brothers. We invented the first self-sustaining aicraft, the first raction motor (jet engine). We also produce a helicopters - that are now equiped with the same technology the Apache helicopters have. We produce APCs, tanks, also Navy ships.

Unfortunately the war industry has entered decline since 1989, but we are still capable of defending ourselves.

Only one time in history we attacked: WWII, we aided the Germans in the Barbarossa campaign, marching as far as Stalingrad and Don river.

The rest of our military campaigns outside our borders were diversion attacks, Crusades, aiding allies (Poland - Marienburg against the Teutons),trying to unite the terriories: Mihai Viteazu (Michael the Brave) 1595-1601 and WWI, or to gain independance 1877 - aiding the Russian forces in their war against the Oatoman Empire at the battles of Vidin, Plevna, Rahova, Grivita, Calafat (during an assault on Plevna the Romanian army lost 1000 men, the entire army having aroung 100.000-150.000 men).

Also there was a campaign in Bulgaria in 1913, that I personally consider a big mistake - our only casualties were the soldiers that caught different diseases.

So, EmprWorm, you see, in out 500 year-old hitory we attacked only once (I repeat the Bulgaria campaign was some sort of a show-off)!

I cannot say the same about USA in its about 250 years of history: the war with UK for Canada 1828 (I presume), the war with Mexic shortly after that. We did not occupy islands in the Paciffic, we did not bought land.

We didn't have any civil war either!

And you still claim we have little ability. If we made sacrifices we could have the ability you speak about, but there's no need for that. We don't want to attack any one.

And if we had the power of the US, well, I think that we would start a serious space program.

[Edric O]

You're so used to bashing other people's countries, Emprworm, that you forget the fact that I am an anti-nationalist. You see, unlike you, I do not believe that my country is any better than others. But I also do not believe that YOUR country is any better than others.

All the power and glory of the mighty United States is due to one man: Adolf Hitler. He unleashed hell on Europe and turned our once prosperous continent into a war-torn wasteland of death and suffering. Europe did not (and will not) ever fully recover. The cancer of Nazism was cut out, but we will bare the scar forever. With Europe out of the picture, the way was paved for American world domination. I can't complain (too much) about your rule, as it's been fairly pleasant. But nevertheless, it is STILL world domination, and it's a VERY dangerous situation for us all. When the fate of the entire world rests on a single nation, trouble is just around the corner.

You are not powerful because you are any better than anyone else - you are powerful only because history favoured you.

And I never complained about the US using the power it has developed to help itself. What I complain about is the US using that power to force its will on others. It doesn't matter if you happen to be right - you are still forcing it on others.

P.S. Oh, and by the way, 1938 + 1 = 1939, not 1937. Just for your information. (and just to clear things up, our Fascist regime began in 1938 and lasted until 1944)

[Davidu]

Edric, I'd like to correct that. There was a fascist regime that lasted only six months, until Antonescu realized that that was not the solution, so he made a technocrat guvernement.

So we weren't fascist all that periond.

[emprworm]

But I also do not believe that YOUR country is any better than others.

All the power and

if you are referring in terms of morality- i partially agree. our country is not morally better than MANY other countries.

If you are referring to power, I disagree completely.

To suggest that every ounce of CAPABILITY and ABILITY of the US would be no different in the hands of Saddam Hussein over the United STates is a statement of supreme ignorance such that not even would I think you are capable of making. No matter how much you tell me that you would actually SERIOUSLY think that the world would be equal to or better off if all the ABILITY and CABABILITY of the US in the hands of Kim Jong, I will still think that secretly you would never agree wit6h such lunacy. I sometimes think that you say nonsense like this on the forum for the sake of spew, but you are too smart and moral of a person to actually, secretly believe it.

[Davidu]

Hey, Edric, read EmprWorms last line... I think he likes you :-*

[emprworm]

Hey, Edric, read EmprWorms last line... I think he likes you :-*

of course i do. i have always liked Edric. He just says strange things, from time to time, that seem to emanate from a smoldering chaotic mass of polymer secretions. At other times, he says things that are brilliant and clearly the result of intelligent, moral and well thought out philosophically sound reasoning.

He is...what I would call...a bi-polar poster. ;)

[Davidu]

Hmmm... that's what I call fair-play (and teasing).

[Edric O]

I'm still trying to determine whether Emprworm's last post was a compliment or an insult. :)

It seems to me that you often misunderstand my arguments, Emprworm. Take now for example:

To suggest that every ounce of CAPABILITY and ABILITY of the US would be no different in the hands of Saddam Hussein over the United STates is a statement of supreme ignorance such that not even would I think you are capable of making. No matter how much you tell me that you would actually SERIOUSLY think that the world would be equal to or better off if all the ABILITY and CABABILITY of the US in the hands of Kim Jong, I will still think that secretly you would never agree wit6h such lunacy. I sometimes think that you say nonsense like this on the forum for the sake of spew, but you are too smart and moral of a person to actually, secretly believe it.

I was talking about nations, not governments. While Saddam and Kim Jong are worthless scum and certainly worse than the American government, the fact is that the American people are no better or worse than the Iraqis or the North Koreans.