One of the MANY reasons why the UN is a Joke

[Egeides]

I can't believe what I'm hearing. You're actually saying that the US, Israel, and Turkey are WORSE than Iraq?

Since you've ignored this before, I ask again; If you had to live in one of the following places, which one would you choose; (current day) Iraq, or (current day) US?

Earth, notice how I said in this day and age. I'm talking '90s here. I don't care what opressed slaves did in Egypt thousands of years ago.

Actually I'd live in USA because the dominant countries is less likely to be attacked. After, in order, it would be Israel (because it's not attacking its own population), Iraq and at total end Turkey. But it depends WHERE in Turkey. If it's in the capital, I'd prefer Turkey to Iraq, but not if it's in the south, where attacks occur.

At the moment, Israel is going against more UN resolutions than Iraq, but I have no idea which one killed the most. Turkey does exactly the same Iraq was doing in the 80s when it had US support and was at the time an ally. But Iraq wasn,t only attacking his own population, he was also attacking Iran. I have no idea which one caused more deaths.

[rigel6669]

Whatever reason for calling UN a joke, after the war the UN "blue helmets" will be needed to help settle down a new governement

[Acriku]

The UN doesn't have an army.

[Edric O]

In this day and age, it is time-honoured, tested, and true that dictatorships do not work. Should there be a war it will most certainly involve the dictatorship obliterated into a zillion pecies.

Yes... and kill a few million innocent people in the process.

By the way, you're confusing 2 different criteria here. Dictatorships do not work in the sense that they never work for the good of their people (which is the whole purpose of the state in the first place). But military-wise, dictatorships usually had by far the most powerful armies, until as recently as 13 years ago.

But communism also involves dictatorship.

That is an outright, complete LIE. True communism cannot function without a democracy. The whole reason why the USSR fell was because it was a dictatorship.

communism + dictatorship = fail

communism + democracy = success

And Marx himself greatly emphasized this point. "Democracy is the road to socialism."

[SurlyPIG]

In this day and age, it is time-honoured, tested, and true that dictatorships do not work. Should there be a war it will most certainly involve the dictatorship obliterated into a zillion pecies.

Yes... and kill a few million innocent people in the process.

Even the grossest casualty estimates don't approach one million.

The most conservative UN figures indicate that at LEAST 360,000 people have starved or been killed by Saddam's government since 1991. Were you aware of this? The UN estimates that another twelve years of containment would mean the starvation of at least 500,000 Iraqis. Have you heard this? Total casualties in Afghanistan were ~3000. Population of Afghanistan = 23,000,000. Population of Iraq = 23,000,000. Total casualties = (we will soon know). If it's a matter of math and casualties to you, what value is placed on the freedom that the surviving Iraqis will gain through this war?

[Edric O]

Even the grossest casualty estimates don't approach one million.

I was talking about the simultaneous war against every single dictatorship on Earth that would result from Emprworm's suggestion, not the war in Iraq.

The most conservative UN figures indicate that at LEAST 360,000 people have starved or been killed by Saddam's government since 1991 . Were you aware of this? The UN estimates that another twelve years of containment would mean the starvation of at least 500,000 Iraqis. Have you heard this? Total casualties in Afghanistan were ~3000. Population of Afghanistan = 23,000,000. Population of Iraq = 23,000,000. Total casualties = (we will soon know). If it's a matter of math and casualties to you, what value is placed on the freedom that the surviving Iraqis will gain through this war?

You ask me if it's worth it? The only ones with the right to decide that are the victims themselves.

By the way, don't get me wrong - I would support a UN-approved war of liberation. But this war is not it.

[Egeides]

In this day and age, it is time-honoured, tested, and true that dictatorships do not work. Should there be a war it will most certainly involve the dictatorship obliterated into a zillion pecies.

Yes... and kill a few million innocent people in the process.

Even the grossest casualty estimates don't approach one million.

The most conservative UN figures indicate that at LEAST 360,000 people have starved or been killed by Saddam's government since 1991. Were you aware of this? The UN estimates that another twelve years of containment would mean the starvation of at least 500,000 Iraqis. Have you heard this? Total casualties in Afghanistan were ~3000. Population of Afghanistan = 23,000,000. Population of Iraq = 23,000,000. Total casualties = (we will soon know). If it's a matter of math and casualties to you, what value is placed on the freedom that the surviving Iraqis will gain through this war?

Is it said it is because of Saddam? Because I remember the US destroy water pipelines and then put an embargo. Maybe Saddam did whattever what, but I do remember this.

[emprworm]

[c]

I was talking about the simultaneous war against every single dictatorship on Earth that would result from Emprworm's suggestion, not the war in Iraq.

.

bunch of misquoted crap.

i support the removal of dictators....one by one.

[Edric O]

However, you said all dictatorships should be thrown out of the UN. Doesn't sound like taking them out one by one to me...

[Anathema]

That so, Emp? How will you topple China and its closest ally then? And honestly, do you believe that the US will be willing to send out troops all the time to save some outlandish folks?

Anyway, democracy in just about the whole of Africa and most other colonies is an overrated thing. The democracies we set up there are among the most bloody regimes of the world, but we support them because the elections are "free". Corruption kinda defeats the whole point, anyway. Most attempted democracy fail because of lack of interest in doing the job right.

[emprworm]

However, you said all dictatorships should be thrown out of the UN. Doesn't sound like taking them out one by one to me...

thrown out of the UN does not = war against them. it means they have no VOTE in the UN.

a dictator getting the priveledge to vote is a contradiction in terms.

[emprworm]

That so, Emp? How will you topple China and its closest ally then? And honestly, do you believe that the US will be willing to send out troops all the time to save some outlandish folks?

Anyway, democracy in just about the whole of Africa and most other colonies is an overrated thing. The democracies we set up there are among the most bloody regimes of the world, but we support them because the elections are "free". Corruption kinda defeats the whole point, anyway. Most attempted democracy fail because of lack of interest in doing the job right.

toppling dictators does not mean by force. i would deal with china by immediate removal of all US companies.

[nampigai]

Just a thought then, where should they get their goods produced then?

[Edric O]

thrown out of the UN does not = war against them. it means they have no VOTE in the UN.

a dictator getting the priveledge to vote is a contradiction in terms.

LOL, Emprworm, do you really think they'll just sit there and do nothing while you throw them out of the UN?

It might not mean war to you, but it sure as hell means war to THEM.

[emprworm]

thrown out of the UN does not = war against them. it means they have no VOTE in the UN.

a dictator getting the priveledge to vote is a contradiction in terms.

LOL, Emprworm, do you really think they'll just sit there and do nothing while you throw them out of the UN?

It might not mean war to you, but it sure as hell means war to THEM.

who cares. If saying to Saddam: "You are criminal" means war to Saddam....oh well. Thats all the more reason to say "you are criminal"

but since the UN wants to favor dictator influence, then the US should leave. You can have a UN of dictators if that is what you want.

[Anathema]

The US is not meant to be a club of friendly democratic nations, Emp. The goal of the UN was to ensure stability, and because of that it's important that nations abide by international law.

[emprworm]

the US should not take part in international bigotry. THe UN is about making world policy. A dictator has no place making world policy. NONE.

the sooner the US pulls out of the dictator-pandering UN, the better.

[Edric O]

who cares. If saying to Saddam: "You are criminal" means war to Saddam....oh well. Thats all the more reason to say "you are criminal"

but since the UN wants to favor dictator influence, then the US should leave. You can have a UN of dictators if that is what you want.

You don't really get it, do you...?

The UN helps control dictators. If you throw them out, they will all unite against their common enemy (namely YOU), begin arming themselves, and start a war. Is that what you want?

Really, Emprworm, haven't you ever heard of DIPLOMACY, for God's sake? And don't start with ridiculous things such as "I don't negotiate with dictators". These are not the Middle Ages, you know.