Another Dune Game cancelled

Dunenewt · March 2, 2003

1)Dune Generations

2)Frank Herbert's Dune:Ornithopter Assault

3)Another Dune game cancelled which was similar to DG

I'll see if I can find the link

Dunenewt · March 2, 2003

Here it is:

http://soma-studios.com/mark/mark_documents/cd_duneal.pdf

Colonel_Worf · March 3, 2003

I wish people would stick with a project. :P

Vanguard3000 · March 3, 2003

What, you mean like they stuck with Duke Nukem: Forever? ;)

Muad dib · March 4, 2003

Is it that hard to find the money for a game? But you also must think that WW is no more and the same with cryo. Dune needs to find a new company to make a game.

Dunenewt · March 4, 2003

Dreamcatcher took over Cryo - go to the Frank Herbert's Dune board and look at the thread Ask Cryo/Dreamcatcher

bob_fox · March 4, 2003

It's amazing that they can't make a great Dune game! It's such a great story; how could you go wrong? Only Dune II was actually a grand success (although I enjoyed Dune 2000 and EBFD, they weren't as good as they should have been).

NeoDevilbane · March 4, 2003

What the fuck are you talking about... EBFD was about as good as a game as it possibly could be as far as real-time strategy games go.

If not an RTS, what other type of game would you make a Dune game as? If an RTS, how would you make EBFD clearly superior? EBFD was as good a game as Westwood (or EA, I should say) would allow, which was still damned better than any C&C game could hope to be.

- Neo

Dunenewt · March 4, 2003

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Vanguard3000 · March 4, 2003

It's amazing that they can't make a great Dune game! It's such a great story; how could you go wrong? Only Dune II was actually a grand success (although I enjoyed Dune 2000 and EBFD, they weren't as good as they should have been).

It's actually wite understandable. Dune has very deep political and religious aspects to them. This is what is difficult to do.

Muad dib · March 5, 2003

If I could make a dune game I would, but untill then I hope another one will come out a few months after Chilren of Dune airs.

bob_fox · March 5, 2003

It's amazing that they can't make a great Dune game! It's such a great story; how could you go wrong? Only Dune II was actually a grand success (although I enjoyed Dune 2000 and EBFD, they weren't as good as they should have been).
It's actually wite understandable. Dune has very deep political and religious aspects to them. This is what is difficult to do.

But many great classics don't touch on those aspects. A Dune game doesn't need to simulate those aspects; it just needs a certain special something... NO, CUT THAT OUT, CUT THAT OUT! (Monty Python joke.)

Anyway, as I was saying, they just need to WORK HARD on a Dune game. I don't mean to put Westwood down (DOWN with EA!) but I don't think they tried too hard with Dune 2000 and Emperor. Don't swear at me; the sales speak for themselves (I'm not saying that you can judge a game entirely by its sales, but it does give you a rough idea how good a game was). Play Emperor and then RA2, and tell me which one WW tried harder on (remember: I'm not asking which one you think is better, but which one you think WW put more time into).

Vanguard3000 · March 5, 2003

But many great classics don't touch on those aspects.

Such as? Games/books/whatever don't have to touch on these things. But political and religious issues make up the backbone of Dune's plot and atmosphere, so without them, you'd end up with a watered down knockoff.

Gobalopper · March 5, 2003

Are you sure that is a game and not just someone writing a design doc? Something like the Melange article?

bob_fox · March 6, 2003

But many great classics don't touch on those aspects.
Such as? Games/books/whatever don't have to touch on these things. But political and religious issues make up the backbone of Dune's plot and atmosphere, so without them, you'd end up with a watered down knockoff.

But, remember, some great games have been very shallow. Command & Conquer? Shallow, shallow, SHALLOW! Dune can be shallow like that (in fact, it has been almost that shallow in the past). The story for C&C (I'm just using it as an example; there are plenty more games like it) was almost made up entirely from scratch. Why can't you just add in stuff for the Dune Games to make up for those lacking aspects (religion and politics). All games do that; they HAVE to.

And I didn't even mention books. I agree with you that books can't be shallow (they don't have to include religion and politics but they can't be shallow). And you can't transfer all the aspects from a book to a game (or even to a movie, for that matter).

Vanguard3000 · March 6, 2003

They did add things. The Ordos, wierd messed up tanks, the entire plot, etc. What else would you have them add?

bob_fox · March 7, 2003

They needed to add in the necessary things. Adding in the Ordos wasn't necessary at all. No one can truthfully tell me the game needed the Ordos. And don't tell me the story of how everyone just loves the Ordos. What makes the Ordos Ordos? Their infantry, tanks, etc. That is all easy to duplicate. You don't need three sides, anyway.

My point, though, is not to complain about the Ordos, but it is to say that adding in an extra side is not actually "adding" anything to the game in the true sense of the word. And they obviously didn't add enough to the game, or it would have done better.

Remember: games aren't made entirely from sides or units. You could make a rubbish game with 6 sides. Who cares how many sides or units you add?

"Weird messed up tanks"? How is that "adding" anything?

Plot? What plot? 'Three sides fight to take over a planet.' What a plot!

Vanguard3000 · March 7, 2003

Well, I agree with you entirely. I'm just naming some of the things they added that weren't from the books. But I asked you to list what they should have added, and you didn't. What do you consider "necessary things?"

bob_fox · March 7, 2003

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure; I guess that's why I'm not a games developer. Actually, "necessary things" wasn't a good way to describe it; these "things" aren't necessary as such but help to make the game great like Dune II.

Dune II had MANY new ideas, you see. Dune 2000 (I like the game a lot, don't get me wrong) was just Red Alert with Dune stuff in it (a simplified explanation, I know, but kinda close). Emperor, a GREAT improvement over Dune 2000, was still just a generic RTS game pumped out by Westwood, except this time it was in 3D (big whoop). It didn't have cool stuff like air-to-air combat (TA actually had this before, but it's still considered to be a cool thing).

You can now see (or, I hope you can now see) why I say Westwood has worked harder on some of its non-Dune games. I can see from unit descriptions on Generals units, for instance, that a lot of thought has gone into that game - a lot more than went into Emperor.

But this doesn't mean I don't like Emperor. I prefer it in many ways to RA2, for instance.

Vanguard3000 · March 7, 2003

Yeah, but Dune2 had many new ideas because, other than Herzog Zwei (which wasn't very popular), it was one of the first RTS games. Sort of the Wolfenstein3D of the RTS genre. I agree that games should be unique and new, but you can't expect a revolution every time.

TMA_1 · March 7, 2003

There is much more to do with Dune than Warfare. This is why no Dune game has ever been a masterpiece in my opinion. Even the Warfare of Dune is never made to its full potential. Too many people wish for the typical run of the mill game. They dont wish something that breaks boundaries.

bob_fox · March 8, 2003

Not every game can be a revolution, but a games developer should make each game as if he expects it to be one.

Dunenewt · March 8, 2003

Dune Generations would have been a revelation in Dune game sin my opinion as it involved trade and non-military activities aswell as warfare which is what Dune was about it was never purely about fighting but now Dune Generations has failed along with the other two I doubt there will ever be another Dune game of any decent quality again unless my little plan works.

I don't see EA making another game as Emperor didn't live up to their eexpectations - it was a sucess but not as sucessful as the C&C games.

Dremcatcher don't seem to be too interested in making Dune games after cancelling Frank Herbert's Dune:Ornithopter Assault nad also they are not making a game about the CoD miniseries like they did with the first

bob_fox · March 10, 2003

I doubt there will ever be another Dune game of any decent quality again unless my little plan works.

And what is your "little plan"?

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Another Dune Game cancelled

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