Somalis Pay to Smuggle Kids to Europe, US

[emprworm]

World - AP Africa

Report: Somalis Pay to Get Kids to Europe

Thu Jan 16,10:15 PM ET

"Somali parents are hiring smugglers to bring their children to Europe and the United States, to protect them from the poverty and violence sweeping the African nation....Parents send the children abroad partly because of the violence in Somalia, which has not had an effective government since the 1991 ouster of dictator Mohamed Siad Barre"

this is what happens when governments are run by warlords, violent gangs, clans, and factions. chaos...anarchy...violence.

Question: Should the United States and/or the United Nations go in there and set up a new government or stay out and let slavery and voilence continue?

full story

[Acriku]

We should go into negotiations, and then since that probably won't work, proceed with Operation Afghanagain.

[Dude_Doc]

You should go in and straighten the situation up.

[emprworm]

but if we go in and straighten it up, wont people in here (like Edric, nema, and others) call us "Imperialists?"

[nemafakei]

Only if you restrict your efforts.

If you go into every country with such problems, and set up a decent, fair form of government (NB 3rd world democracy has never been the best idea for this, but that's a different story), then fair enough. Of course, certain negotiations, sanctions and similar should precede any conflict.

[Acriku]

Caring about what people would think of the US should be last on the list.

[emprworm]

"a U.N. agency said Friday.

"Child smuggling from Somali territories is now so widespread that it has become a critical informal institution," said an agency report. "Those who arrange the transportation of children out of Somalia now consider it a legitimate strategy of survival." "

Posted by: Nema Fakei Posted on: Today at 13:03:11

Only if you restrict your efforts..

lol, Nema, that is a trap and you know it.

So if we go in there and set up a new government, that will only give you and everyone else who hates america an excuse to say

"U.S. efforts were not restrictive. they are being imperialists."

you know, don't you, that setting up a government requires you to de-throne the factions? You know this right? Just what exactly is 'restrict efforts' supposed to mean other than giving you a backdoor to criticize the U.S. once they begin?

[nemafakei]

It's a typo.

It should read only if you do not restrict your efforts. ('to just one or two countries that the US doesn't like' being implied)

[emprworm]

ahhh...i see... well glad to know that you would support the UN institution of a new government. You understand this means US troops and the forcible removal of the violent factions?

or do you think they will volutnarilly step down.

i want to know from people in here that hate US foreign policy: what specifically should we do here?

If you agree that the US should set up a new government, then what do we do with all the violent factions and warlords? Its your turn to play American Diplomacy.

[nemafakei]

"You understand this means US troops and the forcible removal of the violent factions?

or do you think they will volutnarilly step down."

Some will step down, some won't. So those who won't can be removed.

"what specifically should we do here?"

Wow, an opportunity to be constructive with Empr!

The specifics depend on cases, and I can't say what each country in the world needs at the moment.

- Play fair. This means threatening Israel with the same sanctions as Libya.

- Send all violent faction leaders to the Hague, even those not in power

- No US command in the field. Only UN cammand.

- Don't just use non-US troops for clearing up the mess.

- Employ as many interpreters as possible

- Have the UN set up a decent government in the countries (You know how I'd do it...)

- Do not hesitate to set up governments that would be effective, even if they are likely to be anti-US

- Accept that the US will take losses, and that there may well be retribution on US citizens.

- Attack no civilians.

- Ground troops should also police.

- Ground troops should have some diplomatic training.

[emprworm]

"- No US command in the field. Only UN cammand.

- Don't just use non-US troops for clearing up the mess."

i guess i dont understand this. there is no UN army. If the UN is going to be involved, then there will be US commanders there most likely. Or do you want the US to stay out of this one and let the rest of the UN do it?

[nemafakei]

"there is no UN army"

I know. That is a problem which must also be remedied.

[Terror]

Equal rules for every nation. If they are not obeyed, the other countries can interfere.

[thomas]

World - AP Africa

Report: Somalis Pay to Get Kids to Europe

Thu Jan 16,10:15 PM ET

"Somali parents are hiring smugglers to bring their children to Europe and the United States, to protect them from the poverty and violence sweeping the African nation....Parents send the children abroad partly because of the violence in Somalia, which has not had an effective government since the 1991 ouster of dictator Mohamed Siad Barre"

this is what happens when governments are run by warlords, violent gangs, clans, and factions. chaos...anarchy...violence.

Question: Should the United States and/or the United Nations go in there and set up a new government or stay out and let slavery and voilence continue?

full story

>:( >:( >:(HELL NO! >:( >:( >:( we tried to that in 1995 and we got ourselves the poop beaten out of us there is no government but still the people there HATE the US and we'd not succed besides there is no oil there so bush wouldn't be interested. read Black Hawk Down by mark(or something like that not sure) Bowden it'll explain we already tried. :( :P

[emprworm]

well aside from all those smilies scytale, I know that Mogudishu was a failure....because of Bill Clinton who did a half-a$$ job. When you do a military operation, you either do it full or not at all. Billy Clyneton thought he could do a half job and it was a disaster. I read (most of) the account of Black Hawk down and the true failure as he explained it was not in mission planning but governmental red tape and political complications for Billy Clyneton who basically hung them out to dry. Now, if the US has no interest, does not the UN have any interest? Obviously they don't hate the U.S. as much as you say since they are smuggling children here. So it is better to just let human slavery continue like this? Humans are not goods to be bought and sold...right?

[thomas]

no im not saying that im just saying hte us shouldn't get involved we have killed alot of innocent civvys and even more bastard militia so they hate our guts hvae australia,canada,france,UK, and hte US go in not the shitty malaysian and pakistany armys

[Edric O]

The problem is that after you get involved and rightfully remove the warlords, you'll install a boot licking pro-US government. So the ideal solution would be to get involved, then set up a provisonal gov't for the SOLE PURPOSE of having real, true elections in which you let the people decide for themselves what kind of new government they want.

Unfortunately, those people aren't used to democracy and will tend to vote randomly, or vote the provisional government back into power because that makes them feel safe.

[emprworm]

i didn't know we set up any government in Somalia. We went in and removed some warlords in an isolated military operation which was a cataclysmic failure, but we did not get involved in their government....did we?

[Nyarlathotep]

Whatever and IF something happens, it shouldn't be the US alone. It should be done under the UN.

[Edric O]

I was talking hypothetically, Emprworm.

[emprworm]

well i've never known any country where a 'boot licking' US government was installed.

what government might that be?

[Edric O]

Your latest conquest - Afghanistan.

And soon to be Iraq.

[emprworm]

Afghanistan? Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that there were several nations involved in setting up a government there. Besides, I really don't know how realistic it would be to have the United States set up a socialist government. Do really expect something like that? The US government is not perfect, but what CURRENT, EXISTING government is superior? It doesn't matter, anyway, Afghanistan's government wont be anything like ours.

[Acriku]

The people of the countries freed by American troops will not have enough knowledge of the system, and will not understand it, enough to where they can competently vote for a good leader. We do it for them. Then, when they get used to the government, they vote for themselves. IMO

[Edric O]

Yes, that is what I said... and in the mean time, the US government gets to educate them however it sees fit, making sure that they vote for a pro-US faction when they get voting power.