The Occult.

[TMA_1]

he created us like him. Not physically but mentally and spiritually. He didnt mean a literal image of him. Of course he doesnt have the same mind as us silly.lol It has attributes though that he has. that is his image.

Also, a believer that rejects the bible loses his communication with the holy spirit, and though he is saved will not understand just like an unbeliever. satan believes God is real and is powerful but is not subserviant to him. There is a different belief of his than ours.

[Caid Ivik]

God created order. He haven't need to rule everything. Just he created angels and humans, but for that ethernal order. Then came one abominated angel (deviations are usual) and brought the chaos. You think about laws of chaos, evilness, as something usual, natural. That we call inherited sin, based on that from Genesis 3,1. Jesus showed us a way, how to turn from it back to good.

[sneezer3]

Also, a believer that rejects the bible loses his communication with the holy spirit, and though he is saved will not understand just like an unbeliever. satan believes God is real and is powerful but is not subserviant to him. There is a different belief of his than ours.

::)

Now you could be right about an unsaved person. not being able to understand. but Satens belief is no diffrant from ares. if it is then explan how. don't bearly try to esacpe a counterdictian<on your part> by saying its diffrant. and a saved person after he has been away from God for long enough not talking to anyone can't get mixed up. if they can't then show me a reffrace. otherwise i will dismiss it as unscripturel and an opeian. same with an unsaved person trying ot understand doctrans.

i'm not trying to go hard on you. but saying a saved person can't understand it unless he is where he needs to be with God. is takeing it to far without a reffrance back up.

[TMA_1]

Paul talks about people who are in a church and are disrupting it or destroying themselves will die the sin unto death. That though they are sinning now that they will be redeemed in the flesh. by christ for believing. people who are out of fellowship are not in touch with God. If you believe different than you obviously have a different opinion about the holy spirit and its you who judge and say things out of line.

[Caid Ivik]

Mind that church in Paul's time wasn't so unite as today. There were separate churches in every town, and it taken some time, when all accepted roman bishop as Holy Father. Dividing Church today isn't so dangerous, much worse are conversions to other religions, fully another. Without our values.

[sneezer3]

Paul talks about people who are in a church and are disrupting it or destroying themselves will die the sin unto death. That though they are sinning now that they will be redeemed in the flesh. by christ for believing. people who are out of fellowship are not in touch with God. If you believe different than you obviously have a different opinion about the holy spirit and its you who judge and say things out of line.

Once your saved you have the Holy Spirit withen you. but your flesh can be stronger, depends on what you feed the most. Read 1 John 1;6-9

ut what about a reffrace to people not being able to understand doctrans?

Dividing Church today isn't so dangerous, much worse are conversions to other religions, fully another. Without our values.

I would agree with you here some.

But dividing the Church would be bad to. i mean if you did that then there wouldn't hardly be anyone wittnessing would there/ = Truth not known.

Anyways, I would not want my future trusted into some loony who believes that if they make laws a certain way the messiah will come or something like that. Just don't let them screw with our politics and freedom.

Just wanna clear this up.

he will come anyway. not if we make laws a certin way etc. then the Apcolips will happen. He will come Regardless of what we do.

As for politics and freedom. are you aware under all of those new history book coverups. that it was the CHRISTAN FOUNDING FATHERS of America who wanted and gave freedom? And even if we did somehow mess with politics. i don't think it would do much good.

[Acriku]

Jesus christ (no pun intended) sneezer, must you answer every post preaching to me about Jesus and the day will come and all that nonsense (to me)? I said messiah in general, I did not mean Jesus, I did not mean the messiah the Jews are waiting for, I meant the messiah that the cults and religions want to come, and screw with our legal system in accordance with such. Oh wait catholicism and christianity do that, so I meant them, as well. :P

And as for the attempt at bestowing brand new awareness into my life, I knew that all along. So tough luck there. Yes they were christian, but how did the bible help them towards freedom and the pursuit of happiness, etc, in a way that an atheist could not come to that point?

[sneezer3]

Jesus christ (no pun intended) sneezer, must you answer every post preaching to me about Jesus and the day will come and all that nonsense (to me)? I said messiah in general, I did not mean Jesus, I did not mean the messiah the Jews are waiting for, I meant the messiah that the cults and religions want to come, and screw with our legal system in accordance with such. Oh wait catholicism and christianity do that, so I meant them, as well. :P

No. but you said it almost like a question. here i'l quote you.

Anyways, I would not want my future trusted into some loony who believes that if they make laws a certain way the messiah will come or something like that.

but i din't know you ment ever messiah in general. but i don't think Christanty messes with the legal system. at lest not that i am aware of. or can think of at the present.

[Acriku]

How in the world can that be interpreted as almost a question? Oh boy...

It was an assertive statement, so assertive in fact that the idea of it somewhat being that of a question in fact questions the idea that you read it in its entirety. Or with all the reader's attention. Christians don't meddle with the legal system? Ha! How about christian leaders trying to get religion into the educational system, and evolution out? I would never want my children to go into that "public" school.

[sneezer3]

*Senes topic changeing*

How in the world can that be interpreted as almost a question? Oh boy...

ok. now i know you ment it in general. but saying "or something like that" seemed like you'd want to know for sure. or would disire to. Just trying to be freindly. :)

Christians don't meddle with the legal system? Ha! How about christian leaders trying to get religion into the educational system, and evolution out? I would never want my children to go into that "public" school.

You know. you could say the same thing vise versa. "I never want my children to go to that Christan school"

I heard something before. did you know it is ilegele to pray in some Public schooles before you eat? I ask you wheres the freedom in that? Surely you wouldn't stand for it would you? Also you can't display the ten commandments in some. have you heard what happend to Christan schools? no? well, they are taxing them a lot. if someone where to sighn up. they'd have to pay way more then a public. also i don't think that a theory <Evolution> should be accepted as "fact" in any school.

Anyway. people that say that simply belive diffrantly. I myself think homeschooling is better then Christan or Public. ;)

[Acriku]

Sneezer have you ever heard of the separation of church and state? Have you heard of PUBLIC schools following this law? If some want to pray, they go to their private schools, where everybody prays. Heck I am in a public school and before school they have a prayer gathering by the flag pole. And you can pray silently, in your head, no one is stopping you. You can pray all you want in the lunch rooms, it isn't illegal, where did you hear that? And if the christian schools charged a dollar, it would still be largely more than the amount of public schools cost, nothing ;)

Evolution is a fact! It is accepted among almost all scientists! Almost all biologists! It is a fact, and has been proven! But what is a theory, is how it occurs, whether it be through darwinistic evolution or something else. So yes, like they teach that water is composed of H20, they should, and thank GOD they do (!), teach evolution as a fact. Evolution is a science, religion is not. So what is the problem with teaching it in a SCIENCE class?

Also, anyone who believes in microevolution but no macroevolution is kidding themselves. Do you know why biologists never make a distinction between the two, and don't even say macro or micro? Because macroevolution is just microevolution (which has been proven numerously) over a long period of time! Surely enough changes in the gene pool make the species variant enough to be proclaimed a new species. No a dog can't turn into a cat, and no a pencil can't turn into a pen. That isn't a good argument, so don't try to use it ;)

Phew sorry for this, I just had to get it out of my system (ah finally did it ex lol).

[Gobalopper]

Sneezer have you ever heard of the separation of church and state?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

That has come to mean seperation of church and state, personally I don't know if that was the original intention. Note just because I mention this doesn't mean I agree with having religion as an integral part of school.

[Acriku]

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/basic3a.htm shows a few grammatic arguments as to propose the separation of church and state. But it is still a debate as to the exact meaning of it, but as long as my kids (future not present ;)) don't have a bible shoved in their faces when they are very impressionable, I'm good.

[sneezer3]

Sneezer have you ever heard of the separation of church and state? Have you heard of PUBLIC schools following this law? If some want to pray, they go to their private schools, where everybody prays. Heck I am in a public school and before school they have a prayer gathering by the flag pole. And you can pray silently, in your head, no one is stopping you. You can pray all you want in the lunch rooms, it isn't illegal, where did you hear that? And if the christian schools charged a dollar, it would still be largely more than the amount of public schools cost, nothing ;)

Evolution is a fact! It is accepted among almost all scientists! Almost all biologists! It is a fact, and has been proven! But what is a theory, is how it occurs, whether it be through darwinistic evolution or something else. So yes, like they teach that water is composed of H20, they should, and thank GOD they do (!), teach evolution as a fact. Evolution is a science, religion is not. So what is the problem with teaching it in a SCIENCE class?

Also, anyone who believes in microevolution but no macroevolution is kidding themselves. Do you know why biologists never make a distinction between the two, and don't even say macro or micro? Because macroevolution is just microevolution (which has been proven numerously) over a long period of time! Surely enough changes in the gene pool make the species variant enough to be proclaimed a new species. No a dog can't turn into a cat, and no a pencil can't turn into a pen. That isn't a good argument, so don't try to use it ;)

Phew sorry for this, I just had to get it out of my system (ah finally did it ex lol).

Yeah, its been proven. heres some past attempts to prove it. and note that some of it is being tought in schools today.

http://www.chick.com/catalog/posters/lrgposter.asp

Have you heard of protons?

Protons are postively charged. it is a law that all postives and negtives attract. but the same thing repels.now if all of them are postively charged then they should all repel. right? then what is the answer here? <gives a chance for a response>

Maybe you haven't heard of debates. *is not suprised* but it has been disproven. but unforenuntly non of them are free. :( :'( but i know where you can get a discount ;D 8)

Pray in your head? Aw come'on. that goes agenst freedom of speech and you know it. thats discremenation. and notice i said Some schooles. and the sources veryed.

Sneezer have you ever heard of the separation of church and state?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

That has come to mean seperation of church and state, personally I don't know if that was the original intention. Note just because I mention this doesn't mean I agree with having religion as an integral part of school.

Thanks for the exact quote Gob. :) i have heard some good arguements to why there shouldn't be seperation of church and state. but unforurenuntly its been a long time. :-

but as long as my kids don't have a bible shoved in their faces when they are very impressionable, I'm good.

Thats your choice. but i hope you don't shove an Evolution Science book while "there young and very impressable" either.

Really. i don't see the point of this arugment. "remembers what Acriku said* "This debate means little to me"

there is some more i could include/change in this post. but i gotta go. :(

[TMA_1]

if a teacher prayed in front of students, that would be wrong because she is a government worker. If a student prays, he is not paid by the government and has no obligations to fulfill. He or she can pray because the state is not promoting religion. Now if faculty did then the government workers would be supporting therefore making the government support. We have to go to school. It is required. That or pay thousands which many families dont have in private schools or home schooling. That simple.

[sneezer3]

We have to go to school. It is required. That or pay thousands which many families dont have in private schools or home schooling. That simple.

Not home schooling. at lest not where i live. and i don't think its at privete either. just Christan. but i could be wrong on that. :-

[Caid Ivik]

if a teacher prayed in front of students, that would be wrong because she is a government worker. If a student prays, he is not paid by the government and has no obligations to fulfill. He or she can pray because the state is not promoting religion. Now if faculty did then the government workers would be supporting therefore making the government support. We have to go to school. It is required. That or pay thousands which many families dont have in private schools or home schooling. That simple.

So you think school should provide no spiritual education? Then all pupils are doomed to drug influence, and many of them will fall. Look at America, they can't pray, they must all be purely nihilistic to ensure tolerance in schools! But that kills their values, and now we see how students solve troubles with teachers by shooting them. I think there is no "tolerance". They should be teached to live on side of other one, we are not same and must not be same. If teacher is christian, he should pray, show them his/her full personality. Same for pupils. Atheists should just look at them and think about it. There is nothing limiting them. But when is forbidden any sign of religion in school, that's pure discrimination.

[Acriku]

Yep America is full of atheists who just have no morality ;)