Wicca and Neo-peganism

[sneezer3]

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."

I should think my "point" was obvious from the Scripture quote I used:

"Your verdict on others will be the verdict passed on you. The measure with which you measure will be used to measure you." (MT 7,1)

Hmm. you seem to know a lot about the bible. Where do you hear about it at?

You know its a shame that Cathlics non Christans Jahova Wittness. etc Actully know more about the bible then some Christans. :P

[kblackthorne]

Hmm. you seem to know a lot about the bible. Where do you hear about it at?

You know its a shame that Cathlics non Christans Jahova Wittness. etc Actully know more about the bible then some Christans. :P

Let us clarify:

Are you trying to be sarcastic to me, because I asked others to cite their sources of information?

I have done so. Rather specifically. I'm sorry you do not like my source material.

Are you claiming that Catholics & Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christian? What is your basis?

Are you claiming to know my religion? Again, on what basis?

[sneezer3]

Hmm. you seem to know a lot about the bible. Where do you hear about it at?

You know its a shame that Cathlics non Christans Jahova Wittness. etc Actully know more about the bible then some Christans. :P

Let us clarify:

Are you trying to be sarcastic to me, because I asked others to cite their sources of information?

I have done so. Rather specifically. I'm sorry you do not like my source material.

Are you claiming that Catholics & Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christian? What is your basis?

Are you claiming to know my religion? Again, on what basis?

None of the above. I do belive there both wrong on some issues though.

I'm not trying to "sarcastic" you. all i'm doing is asking your source of information.

Let me put it simplyer.

What is the place you get your information from?

[Edric O]

The Bible, Sneezer. Her source is simply the Bible...

[Edric O]

I have also noticed that it seems quite acceptable on this board to make defamatory claims about a group & individuals, and -- when these claims are proven false -- not to appologize.

I have admitted some time ago (on the previous page) that I was wrong in my claims about Wiccans. However, looking back over my posts, I notice that I forgot to apologize. Therefore I would like to do so now.

I sincerely apologize to all Wiccans for what I said in this topic. My accusations were baseless. I'm sorry.

[Caid Ivik]

Jehovists are christians too, altough little bit radical. But how good one lives isn't just thing of his or her church. Is anybody from you there?

My sincere appologies. I missed this line:

Maybe it was just a propaganda, but what I read about Wiccans (in one independent slovak newspaper), was talking about their rituals as "orgies".

What, may I ask, was the context of the article? Did the reporter know what (s)he was talking about? Did (s)he interview Wiccans, witness a ritual? Or was it just hearsay?

It was an article for full page, I won't translate it for you all. Also, I don't store every old newspaper. Reporter used word "orgy" (in slovak "orgia") when he was talking about ritual what he has seen. He used it as name for it, I can't remember everything from it. You can explain it more deeply, if it's a best word for your ritual. He witnessed it, also he talks with one cult member. I don't think SME writes fictions. But correct, if you can.

[kblackthorne]

Caid Ivik,

Why do you assume I have knowledge of Wiccan rituals?

I have claimed no knowledge of such -- I have simply asked you where you came by yours.

I do realize the difficulties of dealing with a language-barrier here. Additionally, newspapers are rather ephemeral things, created to be read and destroyed. If I read something in the paper last week, and wanted to look it up again, it would be quite difficult. (As I discovered recently with a great-aunt's obituary!)

My questions about the article itself were more to make you think. About the article itself, and its value as a source of information. You yourself admitted you thought it might be propaganda.... Now, that may have just been a caveat, or it may have been an actual doubt. I have no way to judge from over here -- no tone of voice, no body language... things that would be much more ovbious if we were in the same room.

But I have seen respcetable newspapers publish articles that were pure sensationalism on occasion... and here in the US, "independent" papers are usually hugely slanted towards a particular agenda. (Not that they often don't have excellent articles & good reporting. But they also have a larger slant than most.) So it seemed resonable to question how such a sensational topic was addressed.

My questions were aimed at helping you evaluate the worth of the information.

This reporter witnessed a ritual. Your phrasing makes me ask, was he invited, or did he intrude? Was it explained to him? He spoke to one Wiccan -- why not more? And what did the Wiccan say about the ritual, the purpose of it, and the name by which the reporter called it?

Jehovists are christians too, altough little bit radical. But how good one lives isn't just thing of his or her church. Is anybody from you there?

My sincere appologies. I missed this line:

Maybe it was just a propaganda, but what I read about Wiccans (in one independent slovak newspaper), was talking about their rituals as "orgies".

What, may I ask, was the context of the article? Did the reporter know what (s)he was talking about? Did (s)he interview Wiccans, witness a ritual? Or was it just hearsay?

It was an article for full page, I won't translate it for you all. Also, I don't store every old newspaper. Reporter used word "orgy" (in slovak "orgia") when he was talking about ritual what he has seen. He used it as name for it, I can't remember everything from it. You can explain it more deeply, if it's a best word for your ritual. He witnessed it, also he talks with one cult member. I don't think SME writes fictions. But correct, if you can.

[kblackthorne]

Edric O,

I am glad you have corrected your oversight. :)

My household places great stock in the value of sincere public apologies for public wrongs, so I know it can be difficult sometimes to do -- having been there.

I congratulate your honesty of spirit in doing so.

[TMA_1]

There are no orgies in the mainstream wiccan practices. Usually there are lavish ceremonies having to do with nature and to the God and Goddess. They are a hodge podge of christian cults, druidism, shamanism, manticism and other spiritual groups. It is growing popular for girls because it gives them a sense of power and belonging. I guess now days girls dont have the backbone that I wish they did have.

[Acriku]

I think more girls are watchin that horrible show Buffy and wanting to be the 'witch'. Yeesh horrible series.

[SurlyPIG]

Do what thou wilt as long as you dont hurt others

---wiccan website.

Hedonism right there. That is the basic ideolgy behind wiccan beliefs.

Hedonism is different than Wicca. One who seeks only pleasure (a hedonist) would not have Wiccan values, would they?

[TMA_1]

You can have values and be a hedonist. What are the values though? hedonism is the search for pleasure. Wicca embraces pleasure for pleasure's sake.

[exatreide]

Good job Kathrine anyone who can reduce edric to that has a place on the boards ;D

[SurlyPIG]

Since when can a hedonist have values? Well, of course they value pleasure but that's it...

[Caid Ivik]

Caid Ivik,

Why do you assume I have knowledge of Wiccan rituals?

I have claimed no knowledge of such -- I have simply asked you where you came by yours.

I do realize the difficulties of dealing with a language-barrier here. Additionally, newspapers are rather ephemeral things, created to be read and destroyed. If I read something in the paper last week, and wanted to look it up again, it would be quite difficult. (As I discovered recently with a great-aunt's obituary!)

My questions about the article itself were more to make you think. About the article itself, and its value as a source of information. You yourself admitted you thought it might be propaganda.... Now, that may have just been a caveat, or it may have been an actual doubt. I have no way to judge from over here -- no tone of voice, no body language... things that would be much more ovbious if we were in the same room.

But I have seen respcetable newspapers publish articles that were pure sensationalism on occasion... and here in the US, "independent" papers are usually hugely slanted towards a particular agenda. (Not that they often don't have excellent articles & good reporting. But they also have a larger slant than most.) So it seemed resonable to question how such a sensational topic was addressed.

My questions were aimed at helping you evaluate the worth of the information.

This reporter witnessed a ritual. Your phrasing makes me ask, was he invited, or did he intrude? Was it explained to him? He spoke to one Wiccan -- why not more? And what did the Wiccan say about the ritual, the purpose of it, and the name by which the reporter called it?

Jehovists are christians too, altough little bit radical. But how good one lives isn't just thing of his or her church. Is anybody from you there?

My sincere appologies. I missed this line:

Maybe it was just a propaganda, but what I read about Wiccans (in one independent slovak newspaper), was talking about their rituals as "orgies".

What, may I ask, was the context of the article? Did the reporter know what (s)he was talking about? Did (s)he interview Wiccans, witness a ritual? Or was it just hearsay?

It was an article for full page, I won't translate it for you all. Also, I don't store every old newspaper. Reporter used word "orgy" (in slovak "orgia") when he was talking about ritual what he has seen. He used it as name for it, I can't remember everything from it. You can explain it more deeply, if it's a best word for your ritual. He witnessed it, also he talks with one cult member. I don't think SME writes fictions. But correct, if you can.

You don't have anything with Wicca? Then you can't know if it's true. But that's no matter. I don't know how USA newspapers are independent, but SME proven itself many times as independent. Not so free like Novy Cas, but that's like a mix between The Sun and Playboy... He write what he has heard only from one person, also he was invited. I know one Ursuline Order sister, which was invited to black mass to see what are they doing there. I can't you explain fully it, but the article wasn't negative. Todays people like such free life, so it is written for them. Yesterday I read there an article about raelians, that cloning sect, also positive.

[kblackthorne]

Caid Ivik,

~looks frustrated~

I think we're running into a language-barrier issue here. You seem -- from your last post -- to be talking about Satanists, while everyone else is talking about Wiccans, which are a separate group.

~looking more frustrated~

And since I speak no Slavik, I have no way to go to you in your native tongue (as you have come to me in mine) to see if this is the case, and to try to explain the difference.

(I have a profound respect for those who are even semi-fluent in more than one language -- they've accomplished more than I have. I am floored by some of the people I have known & worked with -- from places like Thailand & Poland -- who speak 3 or 4 languages. At my best, I was only ever semi-fluent in Quebecquois French, and lost that a long time ago.)

But in general, those who practice the ritual called the Black Mass (which is a deliberate mockery of Christian ritual, and requires the presence of a defrocked priest) call themselves Satanists -- not Wiccans. In fact, they will deny being Wiccans.

Somewhere around here, I have a reference on the history of the "Black Mass" that effectivly questions whether it has ever been performed except "for show" -- that is, "Hey, if you pay $50.00, I can take you to watch some people performing a Black Mass!" But it'll take some researching to find... I think I can narrow it down to one of 3 books, but one of those is thick, one is a library book. Guess it's my day to be frustrated. Anyway, I WILL look for it & post the info for anyone who's interested in the history of such things. {And it is purely history, not "how-to".} It may take me a while to find my source, however, as I remember this was only tangentally related to the main topic of what I was researching. So tangentally that I didn't bother researching this issue further...

[Caid Ivik]

Slavik is a small bird, singing on early morning, our langauge is called slovak ;)

You haven't understood what I was trying to point. Small cults are opened, inviting many intelligents, especially teologists, philosophers and reporters on their rituals. That's same for Wicca and i.e.laveyistic satanists. It's a classic propaganda. Many occultistic sects are shrouded in myths like they commit bloody sacrifices and so on. As they want to grow in other countries (eastern Europe is still under christianic monopole), they invite many people on their rituals. I don't think this needs me to write in Quebecquois French for your understanding.

[Edric O]

Hmmmm... I have just one question:

Katherine, why is this the only topic you post in?

[kblackthorne]

Edric,

It isn't. I've posted in at least one other thread, and wanted to post in another, but didn't have time to finish reading that thread. (And jumping into something that long when you haven't bothered to read it is both stupid & rude.)

Ever join a forum & suddenly discover you have NO time to hang out online? I've hardly even been keeping up with my email.

But I felt it would be rude/unfair of me to abandon this particular discussion, since I've been rather vocal. So I've checked back frequently, so that if someone (such as yourself) had something to say to me, I could actually respond.

Fortunatly, things at work are improving & the servers, so we can actually get work done during work hours... and the chaos that has been my after-work life for the past few weeks should settle down in a couple more weeks. (Work stabalizing will help that. I spent all day Saturday on call, and put of plans until Sunday, only to be called on Sunday! ::) )

[Caid Ivik]

EdricO, not everyone has such hypermodern equipment how is in Romania in stores now ;D