Prayer (dun dun DUN...)

[VigilVirus]

You are confused, TMA. They aren't the same. They are both called "God", but that doesn't mean anything. They are described differently, the holy books are different, the morals are different.

Mohammad if the Islamic prophet - not Jesus.

[SurlyPIG]

Originally coined by an insightful person

"When you talk to God, it is called prayer. When God talks to you, it is called schizophrenia.

*Prepares for barrage of flames*

[TMA_1]

vigilent evil, I wont argue about that. It is so obvious. You need to study religion. There are many prophets in the islamic religion, mohammad is just the key prophet. Also the hebrew have a "daysmen" or messiah that is expected to come, just like the muslims. Study a bit more.

[VigilVirus]

Lol, how is that not arguing?

The Gods are similar, but not the same, just like the religions are similar, but not the same. It is you who needs to study more.

Just look at the teachings:

Does christianity have a jihad or eye for an eye? No, on the contrary - it says when you are struck on one cheek - turn the other.

You must look at the morals to say about the Gods. I mean, how can the different Gods of different religions be the same of their teachings are different?

[TMA_1]

lol differences dont mean rifts. study.

[Edric O]

It's quite simple, Acriku. Let's take the example in your first post: Bob is dying. Now understand this: It is most likely (by far!) that Bob's death or survival had nothing to do with God's will, until you prayed. God doesn't decide everything that happens on Earth, you know... For the most part, He just lets things take their course. When you pray to Him for something, you ask Him to intervene in something He did not intervene in before. He never had ANY plan for Bob, so you don't change His mind by praying to Him.

Now, the reason prayer might not work is simple: If God already has a plan related to the thing you pray for, He cannot grant you your wish.

Also, keep in mind that not all prayers are about asking God for something. We may thank Him for everything He has given us, or simply pray for the sake of praying.

[Caid Ivik]

Maybe He had another plan with Bob. Cross is a sign of love.

[Acriku]

Or maybe Bob is god! Ok anyways, one of the reasons I included it changed god's will is because I am populated by people at my school who keep on saying "It's God's plan. In the end it will make sense." So this tells me this whole shebang is god's plan, what is happening is what he wants it to happen. That may just be me?

And another rambling:

Why is the cross a sign of love? It's the fricking deathsite of your beloved Jesus! He died on it, so you worship it! It just makes no sense. Elvis dies on the toilet, so let's all worship the toilet and put a toilet on all of our doorways and on top of churches!

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Does christianity have a jihad or eye for an eye? No, on the contrary - it says when you are struck on one cheek - turn the other.

Does the holy crusade say anything to you?

Which the Christians did?

[Acriku]

I found this :

Exodus 21:22-25 "If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."

This is from the Bible no doubt, saying Eye for an eye is justice for killing with 'mischief' following it.

[quoudam72]

Why is the cross a sign of love? It's the fricking deathsite of your beloved Jesus! He died on it, so you worship it! It just makes no sense. Elvis dies on the toilet, so let's all worship the toilet and put a toilet on all of our doorways and on top of churches!

Judism had the Star of David so the Christians needed a political (and spritiual) symbol as well they choose the cross. Even with the cross being a form of capital punishment (Assyriain and Roman empires used it as such). The cross is for those people who allow Christ into their lives (remember Christ died willing on the cross). They accept Christ into their lives therefore accepting the cross also. It is quite self explanitory as one studing psychology like yourself should be able to find an explanation to your own question. Oh and Elvis might have been the king but he was never the messiah.

[Acriku]

It doesn't seem weird to you to have people with a dead man nailed to a cross hanging from their neck? Ah well, it's a good thing we don't have Moses impales on the point of the Star of David ;)

[Edric O]

Acriku, do you know what love means? You know, the opposite feeling of that hatred you are so full of?

"Holy" Crusade? They were only fighting for their own material greed! Tell me, which part of "Thou shall not kill" didn't they understand?

If I killed someone in your name, even though you specifically told me NOT to, would that be your fault? Would that make YOU evil?

Christianity is what Jesus taught us, not what Christians choose to do on their own.

As for that quote from Exodus - yes, it does say an eye for an eye. That is the Old Law. That is what the Old Testament taught us. It was the only way in those chaotic, troubled times. However, things have changed. We now follow the New Law, given to us by Jesus Christ. Read the NEW Testament. See what Jesus teaches. He specifically said that "an eye for an eye" is a thing of the past, and we should leave that mentality behind.

[Acriku]

Hey Edric just wondering, do you believe in moral relativism? Or moral absolutes?

Doesn't the New Testament tell you that the Old Testament should be obeyed?

L...ovvvve? Poppycock! :D

[Edric O]

There can be only one absolute moral system - God's will. Everything else is relative.

Yes, the NT says that you should obey the OT as well, to a certain extent. Not everything is he same, though, otherwise Jesus wouldn't have needed to say anything.

Here is one example of Jesus addressing the issue of "an eye for an eye" and replacing it with "turn the other cheek":

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

- Matthew 5:38-39

[Acriku]

So wait, part of the OT was written due to the times in which it was written? So God's influence had nothing to do with those parts? And if they did, did Jesus then say in the NT that they should ignore God's words?

So Edric, you believe that the 10 commandments are absolute, or are they relative? Sorry for not being specific earlier.

[Edric O]

No, no, you misunderstood. :)

God gave us one set of rules for a certain period of time, and a slightly different one for the next (and final) period of time. Why did He do that? Well, God only knows. ;)

As for the 10 commandments, they are absolute. For all time. They were never changed or affected in any way by Jesus's new teachings.

[Acriku]

Are they absolute in the aspect of no way around it? Take the Thou Shalt not kill commandment, is there any way around that? Or is killing in any predicament breaking the commandment?

[Edric O]

Acriku, please get to the point. :)

Oh, and yes, there is no way around it. Killing another human being under any circumstance (including self-defense) means braking the commandment and it is a sin.

[Acriku]

Ok now that we have gotten here *phew finally*...

Spread the curtains!

*woosh*

Go here: http://wildlink.com/freelink/thoughts/issue17.htm

Too much to quote, so go there and read the whole page top to bottom. Pwetty pwease :) It's very thought-provoking, and please don't start yapping "the author of this website is very atheistic and therefore I deny his 'logic'"

Close the curtains!

*woosh*

[Edric O]

He he he... a nice (but futile) argument for moral relativism. To put it simply, the guy is wrong. Let's analyze his arguments, starting with commandment 5 (that's the one he starts with):

#5 - There is a difference between "honoring" and "obeying".

#6 - If you have a gun and you're standing in front of someone with his finger on "the button", shoot him in the arm. There is always a better solution than killing.

#7 - Choices? You can always choose to NOT do either one of those things. There is no way someone can force you to choose between one sin or another. At most, he can kill you if you don't choose. But that's still a way out. A third choice. There is ALWAYS a third choice. You might not like it, but it's there.

#8 - see above.

#9 - Well duh, of course not all lies are equally wrong. Notice that the very definition of "lie" is quite ambiguous and open to interpretation. And God is not absurd.

#10 - Wanting is NOT a synonym for coveting. "Coveting" in this context means wanting something sinful.

[Acriku]

#5 State that difference for further discussion

#6 He said without any other way! He can still hit the button with the other arm, and what if you only have one round and you are 10 feet away from him, what then?

#8 There is not always another choice. Give me another choice you can do instead of stealing the gun away that produces results? This should be fun.

And what about the other commandments he talked about? If he is wrong, refute them as well.

[TMA_1]

"Judism had the Star of David so the Christians needed a political (and spritiual) symbol as well they choose the cross. Even with the cross being a form of capital punishment (Assyriain and Roman empires used it as such). The cross is for those people who allow Christ into their lives (remember Christ died willing on the cross). They accept Christ into their lives therefore accepting the cross also. It is quite self explanitory as one studing psychology like yourself should be able to find an explanation to your own question. Oh and Elvis might have been the king but he was never the messiah"

lol quondam, quondam, quondam... I am afraid you are wrong and besides the early church didnt use any symbols. They eventually used a Fish as a secret symbol for a church. It was secret in order to be able to show christians where the church was but without having unbelievers know and persicute them.

Acriku christ said he came to Fulfill the law. That no longer was an eye for an eye required because christ died for humanities sins. Paul the apostle said that the law was "a sort of tutor". It was there to show the people that they couldnt hold up to the laws. People broke those and it was a sign that only through the slaughtering of the lamb jesus christ, that they would be saved. That is also why they sacrificed, to show the future daysmen. Dude you are getting wayyy anti christian lately? did they kill your parents or something? lol They really arent a syndicate, though people will say different because they have an attitude problem.lol

[Acriku]

Nah if everybody was Buddhist I would find controversial topics for everyone to discuss about Buddhism ;)

[TMA_1]

exactly, you are being an emprworm. Emprworms are creatures that argue for the sake of trying to feel better about their own opinion, but hiding it in a veneer of "debate".