Truth of Mother Teresa

[Caid Ivik]

Emotional. That was the main support of mother Teresa for those poor. What is bad on helpfulness? Thanks to her, their deaths weren't "horrible and painful". But such spiritually empty egoistical beings like you can't understand it. Her missionaires were not only giving these people evangelium, new hope for their miserable life, but also were educating them with hygiene, basics of reading and writing and so on. For nothing. Sacrificing life for the others is biggest value, best what you can do in your life.

[Acriku]

Hmm, I was waiting for you Edric ;)

I'm taking pot shots at the evil Catholic, not Christian! ;) Jk.

You disgust me, now it's mutual. Hehe jk again.

I gave you those links, that was evidence. Maybe it isn't enough for you, maybe I should go back in time and videotape what she did? BTW she was very far from poor, I would say richer than a lot of middle class Americans!

She gained a good image, which was what she wanted. She wanted to play the part of ministering angel, the good person. A person bent on trying to look good.

Her institutions held nuns that had roles worse than women in the middle 1900's of USA, she did nothing to progress the role of women in society.

She was more into the soul of a person, than the mortality of that person (didn't care if they died horribly and painfully, just that their soul was saved) - http://tmatt.gospelcom.net/column/1997/09/17/ - so me believing in no salvation this is horrible. To you people who do believe in salvation, she was great. A lovely angel. To me and all of the other athiests of the "catholic/christian" god, she was nothing but evil. (Funny for me to say evil is it not? ;))

Here is a book about the evils of Mother Teresa - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/185984054X//103-9220918-7771820?v=glance&s=books

Here is an excerpt from a review :

The New York Times Book Review, Bruno Maddox

Like all good pamphlets, The Missionary Position . . . is very short, zealously overwritten, and rails wildly in defense of an almost nonsensical proposition: that Mother Teresa of Calcutta is actually not a saint but an evil and selfish old woman. And Mr. Hitchens . . . is rather convincing. His main beef is that Teresa . . . has consorted with despots and white-collar criminals and gained millions of tax-free dollars, while the residents of her famous Calcutta clinic are still forced to confront their mortality with inadequate care. Ultimately, he argues, Mother Teresa is less interested in helping the poor than in using them as an indefatigable source of wretchedness on which to fuel the expansion of her fundamentalist Roman Catholic beliefs. Hitchens argues his case with consummate style.

Now really, if declare Teresa a saint, that she helped a lot of people, where is your proof? Nothing but hearsay! Open your eyes people!

Like this mister? : :O

Yes Jimmy, that's it!

This is a letter asking Mother Teresa questions about the "mysteries" of her and her centers:

http://website.lineone.net/~bajuu/chatlet.htm?18,28

[Edric O]

Hmm, I was waiting for you Edric

You have summoned me, and I have arrived. ;)

I'm taking pot shots at the evil Catholic, not Christian!

[yes, I know it's j/k, but I'd like to comment on it anyway]

Unlike some people (looking at you TMA), I do not fall for a simple divide et impera strategy, such as the one Satan is currently using against Christianity.

Now let's take a look at your articles:

1. http://tmatt.gospelcom.net/column/1997/09/17/ - This simply points out that Mother Theresa was not perfect, and she had flaws just like every other human being. It also says that she DID, in fact, physically helped many suffering people and worked to heal them from their illnesses. Good article. Nothing wrong with it.

2. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/185984054X//103-9220918-7771820?v=glance&s=books - as the reviewer points out, "[the book] rails wildly in defense of an almost nonsensical proposition". Besides, what kind of "proof" is a book that I can't read? How do I know the author didn't simply write a load of cr@p to get attention?

3. http://website.lineone.net/~bajuu/chatlet.htm?18,28 - This letter points out inconsistencies in books, films and rumours about Mother Theresa. So? The main argument seems to be that she didn't do enough. Would you rather have her not do anything at all? Can YOU do better?

Now really, if declare Teresa a saint, that she helped a lot of people, where is your proof?

You are not a Catholic, therefore you have no RIGHT to argue about declaring someone a saint or not. It doesn't concern you.

[Acriku]

Woah am I seeing double comments :O lol. Might be a browser error dunno.

1 - I used this article to tell you where I got my information that she was more into the soul of a person, helping my statements coming after it. And yes it does say that, but that was not the point of the reference.

2 - And further down it says "and he is rather ... convincing." The manner in which information is given should hold into account of the man's style, not credibility. I'd like to buy that book, but sounds boring lol.

3 - Throughout the letter it points out things such as the statistics she put out, such as the amount of children in care at the moment. The writer was asking where these children were. And just what is care?

Indeed I am not a catholic (and thank god I'm not), but this was only meant to inform the public of the truth. Inform them of the lies they were told, which were told to me saying "she was a good person, a true example of self-sacrifice and care" etc. It may not conscern me, but then again not a lot does. Or you. And why is that a reason to ignore it?

[Edric O]

And further down it says "and he is rather ... convincing."

Let's see: I have a half-hearted admission that a book is rather convincing about an issue. Err, I don't know about you, but I'm not really impressed... ::)

Throughout the letter it points out things such as the statistics she put out, such as the amount of children in care at the moment. The writer was asking where these children were. And just what is care?

"The writer was asking"... yes he was, and quite a long time ago. Perhaps someone should inform him that Mother Teresa is, ummm... dead. Anyway, all I see is a flaw in the statistics, which is not surprising given the conditions in Calcutta. So let me get this straight: Mother Teresa was a bad person for not taking care of more people than she did? She wasn't good enough??

Perhaps the writer of that letter could do better? Well, what does HE do to help the poor? Other than being a lying hypocrite, I don't see him doing anything...

but this was only meant to inform the public of the truth. Inform them of the lies they were told, which were told to me saying "she was a good person, a true example of self-sacrifice and care" etc.

So far you have only "informed the public" of baseless lies and the zealous urge of some people to demonize anything Christian. Your only argument seems to be the hypocritical insanity that Mother Teresa was not "good ENOUGH"! Now, unless you go to Calcutta and do a BETTER job than she did, I suggest you keep your mouth shut and post no more misinformation about people who actually try to make life a little more bearable for those of us who aren't as fortunate as you and me.

[Acriku]

Well I'm not the only one with my views you know. And if you don't want to believe it, perhaps it's better to picture someone as a saint, instead of a cruel insensitive inhumane hypocrit. Oh and I am mother teresa! Boo! *sigh* that didn't go too well.

[Edric O]

And if you don't want to believe it [...]

To believe... you got that verb right. You have ZERO evidence. There simply isn't any. This whole thing is only your BELIEF.

Heh, there goes your almighty skepticism... ::)

perhaps it's better to picture someone as a saint, instead of a cruel insensitive inhumane hypocrit

No, not really. Let me explain: Mother Teresa was a Christian. A very GOOD Christian. You, as an atheist, see Christians as your enemies. You do not want to admit that so much good can come out of Christianity. So you delude yourself by creating a fantasy where Mother Teresa is an evil person. This reinforces your beliefs and makes you feel more secure.

[Acriku]

Now how come all I can bring to you is links and you deny them as evidence of any kind? Doesn't seem fair to me :'(

Hmm, TMA is a christian, albeit a very strange one ;), but he's a great friend to me? Or do I subconsciously view him as an enemy so I talk to him a lot to "get to know the enemy"?

[Edric O]

Now how come all I can bring to you is links and you deny them as evidence of any kind? Doesn't seem fair to me

That's because those links point to sites which don't offer any evidence. Only their opinions on certain statistics. (like I said, their only argument is the insane hypocritical claim that Mother Teresa didn't do enough...)

Come on Acriku, you can see the flaws in your argument. Admit you were wrong. No one is infallible. :)

Hmm, TMA is a christian, albeit a very strange one , but he's a great friend to me? Or do I subconsciously view him as an enemy so I talk to him a lot to "get to know the enemy"?

Yes, but TMA is a person you can interact with. Mother Teresa is just a stranger, a name in a newspaper. If you met her face to face, things would be different.

[Acriku]

Look at my links on my first post, those are not opinions that she didn't do enough.

How would it be different? I have many christian friends at school (less whacky ones no doubt), my best friend in the whole world is a christian (his name is christian as well lol), so tell me how that is different than a meeting with Teresa?

[Edric O]

It's NOT different! That's what I said. A meeting with her would be the same as meeting one of your Christian friends. But you have NOT met her, so it's easier for you to not think about her as a person, but as something that goes against your beliefs, an "enemy".

As for the sites in your first post:

One of them is the site with the letter, which I talked about earlier.

The other one makes a whole lot of powerful accusations. "Mother Teresa was like this and did that". But the author never talks about where all that supposedly genuine information came from. I'm afraid that just like the others, this article is completely lacking evidence...

You really should know better than believing every unsubstantiated rumour, Acriku. You can find people claiming all sorts of crazy things on the internet...

[Acriku]

For such an unsubstaniated rumor, it sure is widespread...

And Edric, will you stop saying this and that is my enemy, and I hate it? Teresa isn't the enemy, the propaganda about her is the enemy, lies are the enemy! And have you met her? No, so it's easier for you to not think about her as a person, but as something that goes with your beliefs, a "saint".

[Edric O]

The number of people who believe something does not constitute proof. Just like the huge number of Christians in the world does not prove anything.

Besides, you know as well as I do that rumours spread quickly, especially if they're about famous people. Nevertheless, the proof is still lacking. That is a fact.

As for me saying this and that is your enemy... yes, you're right, it's none of my business. I was just telling you the impression I get from reading your arguments. You should really try giving up some of that hatred of yours, though...

[Acriku]

I do need a boxing bag hanging from the ceiling I agree, that would be so much better 8)

There is little proof on either side.

[emprworm]

:THE ARMCHAIR SPECTATOR: A play by Emprworm

Starring: Edric and Emprworm

EMPRWORM: Hey, Edric, lets go visit the city of Bucharest.

Edric: Sure, worm. Sounds like fun.

*so edric and worm are off to Bucharest. They stop in an old poor section of town and see decrepid people all around*

EMPRWORM: Look at all these poor souls. Its overwhelming. This is pretty sad, Edric

Edric: Ya, it is. I'd like to help them but it's just too much.

EMPRWORM: I know.

*Suddenly a man approaches Edric. He is dying of liver cancer and desperately needs highly advanced medical care and a liver transplant. He is shivering, cold, hungry, and in despair. "Sir, please help me" He says.*

EDRIC: Sorry Worm, I cant turn this guy away. We have to do something.

EMPRWORM: I know. Lets rent out that old shack back there. Its not much but at least its shelter. I'll go get the place rented, you go into town and get some blankets and food. Perhaps we can help these people, even if for a few days."

EDRIC: Yes. Im on it.

*That evening, there are perhaps a dozen people crammed in the little shack. They lie on the floor, but still they all have blankets and pillows. It is cold and raining outside. Hot soup is served to all of them along with loaves of bread and even a few sweet pastries to help bring some enjoyment to them.

EMPRWORM: "Edric, what do we do about this guy dying of liver disease? Four other people here are suffering from cancer as well. This is beyond us, they need world class medical attention. But all I have is medical insurance for myself."

EDRIC: "I know worm. All we can do is help them the best we can. Even one cup of cold water given to one who thirsts can still make a difference. And more than food, we can give them hope. Hope that the pain and suffering they have known for so many years- perhaps even their whole lives, can one day replaced with great joy. "

EMPRWROM: "Yes. That is something neither you nor I can give them. No amount of food will give them this, they must find it within their hearts to believe that there is a Greater Purpose for them. That hope alone can bring meaning into their life, even if they still die from disease."

Suddenly, EMPRWORM curls over in horrible pain. He collapses into a heap on the ground.

EDRIC: "Worm! What is wrong?" but there is no response. EMPRWORMS face is turning pale and his breathing is shallow.

EDRIC: "WORM!!"

*quickly, Edric runs outside and finds a phone and calls the nearest hospital. An ambulance is immediately dispatched and EMPRWORM is rushed to the emergency room. While doctors treat him, staff verify that he is insured. Meanwhile Edric returns to the shack to tend the homeless. He places a call an hour later to check on worm to find that EMPRWORM was diagnosed with a malignant tumor and is waiting for medical evacuation to the John Hopkins Medical Hospital in the United States for immediate radiosurgery.

The local news gets wind of this and a reporter with a camera shows up and gets some images of the place and puts them on the internet.

Meanwhile, back in the US, in his nice cozy home with plush carpet, a fluffy bed, hot showers, a computer, even a car and a kitchen stocked full with food, with the Television running and watching surround sound DVD and surfing the internet on his 2.8 GZ 21 inch, 1GB Ram high-powered computer, THE ARMCHAIR SPECTATOR while surfing the net spots the news story back in Bucharest. He sees a picture of an old beaten shack stuffed with decrepid people lying on the floor in blankets- dirty, unshaven, and obviously sick. At the center of the room he sees Edric- a clean, shaven decently dressed guy- healthy, well fed. He reads about the other well-fed guy who was evacuated to the US for surgery.

THE ARMCHAIR SPECTATOR: "Look at those two hypocrites" he mumbles as he takes another bite of his Domino's Deep Dish Pizza and throws the pizza crust in the trash. "They are treating those people horribly. Those pathetic, low life scum! How DARE them! Those people are dying and suffering!, and all they can do is give them a crappy shack to sleep in? THEY ARE SLEEPING ON THE FLOORS FOR HEAVENS SAKE! What kind of vile person would do that to someone?"

He continues yelling and then looks up to watch a cool scene from his DVD, then glances back at the computer. Then he reads that Worm and Edric are Christians, and the anger boils over.

THE ARMCHAIR SPECTATOR: "Those LOSERS didn't even give them advanced surgical health care. If they truly cared, they should have SOLD EVERYTHING- even their homes, to pay for their advanced medical care. HOW DARE they feed someone without first forking out one hundred thousand dollars for liver surgery. THOSE BIGOTED MAGGOTS! AND THAT WORM GUY IS GETTING FIRST RATE HEALTH CARE! THAT DESPICABLE LOW LIFE PIECE OF #$#$$#!"

He then minimizes his internet window and checks his email, responds to a few giggly internet jokes, enjoys a slice of decadent pumpkin pie, then re-maximizes the Bucharest window, and resumes complaining. He even reads that back at his home in the US, EMPRWORM owns his own car.

THE ARMCHAIR SPECTATOR: "With the dying, those religious bigots did nothing to ease their pain and let them die a horrible and painful death! And JUST LOOK AT THAT CRAPPY SHACK? The floors are dirty, adding to their infections. And what are they feeding them? SOUP? LOL, those poor bigoted SOB's. I bet they enjoyed a nice pasta dinner too while they feed those homeless soup and bread. DISGUSTING! AND LOOK AT THIS! ONE OF THEM OWNS A CAR! WTF? How dare those hypocrites own luxuries in life when they should be SELLING IT and giving it to those poor people. THEY ARE ACTUALLY **INCREASING** THE SUFFERING OF THE POOR! Those B@$TAR*$'s"

He sips his mountain dew and burps a few times. He walks over to his stuffed-full refrigerator, kicking pizza boxes and half-empty bags of chips on his way there. He opens the fridge and pulls out a cold one. Yes, its very cold, and so refreshing- one of the finest brews available. He takes a few chugs as he turns up his heater a bit to warm up the place. Its getting cold outside you know. He starts thinking about that new car stereo he is getting tomorrow.

THE ARMCHAIR SPECTATOR: "I wish this world had more people like me. Then no one would be suffering. I wouldn't be a hypocrite like those scum."

[Edric O]

Amen.

There's nothing I can add to that, Emprworm. :)

[Acriku]

Ah a fallicy-ridden play. I love going to these don't you Jimmy?

Yes mister I sure do!

Teresa received millions (non-taxed) of dollars, insurance does not get you the best doctor town, but millions of dollars sure do, oh and why didn't Empr and Edric start their own sisterhood? (albeit they are not female) When Empr and Edric were given antibiotics to use to ease any pain and suffering the poor people had, or to buy, why did they refuse them all? And mind you, I don't have hatred of her because she's a catholic, it's because she didn't save them, didn't relieve any pain, nor suffering, she didn't give them hope (hard to have hope while you are screaming in pain and agony), and did it because of her beliefs! They were victims of her beliefs, because she thought they would be saved! If she is wrong (which I think she is) they died a horrible and painful death for nothing! That is what I am angry at her for!

[zamboe]

Mother Teresa was horrible! She caused everybody who wanted to be "healed" by her to suffer horrible and painful deaths, not healing them at all but claiming to spiritually heal them. She set up her corporation using young girls and women forced by pressure from their parents to become nuns, and her rules for being nuns were rediculous - chastity, complete obedience to the church, and assume the role that the Pope had for women, often starving them.

For the dying she only helped the dying, and let the people who could have lived die with the excuse - "They would have seen God anyway!" With the dying, she did nothing to ease their pain, nothing to relieve them for anything, and let them die a horrible and painful death. She was content on saving their souls, not their bodies, and there is nothing to whether or not she really did save their soulds. Denying the usage of antibiotics, machinery, etc, to her "patients", or victims, when she had heart trouble she went to the finest heart doctor there! She was nothing but a hypocritical, immoral, sadistic, blinded fool. The myth of Teresa was spread by Malcolm Muggeridge, which was helped by Teresa herself.

http://website.lineone.net/~bajuu/index1.htm

http://www.sarahlawrence.org/Articles/MotherTeresa.html

I completly disagree.

What have you done to critize someone that left everything she had to help others ?

If she had the resources she would have done much more, but obviously it seems that it will never be enough for you. She was really poor and helped poor people, what u expected, she was there trying to AT LEAST confort their souls, her only presence make people feel better and she did that until his very last day. Thanks to her effort, all over the world there are missionaries that goes to the hospitals in under developed countries to help with the very limited resources they have to the ill people.

If you don't know, in Christianity physical suffering is not unaccepted.

[Acriku]

I think where we differ is her resources. I say she received millions (nontaxes), you say she was poor.

[zamboe]

I think where we differ is her resources. I say she received millions (nontaxes), you say she was poor.

Well, her foundation received donations, big donations. But consider this, to make some efect in the lifes of all the ill people under that were under her foundation care, at least one hundred million (India, Southwest Asia, south and central America) ill people, in a year each people in the hospital would get in the best case 1 U$ dollar, what efect can 1 dollar have in a life of someone ?

[Acriku]

Bleh can't find the number of people she cared for, or the amount of donations she received, so until I do find it I won't say anything risking I make a mistake.

[Caid Ivik]

Why do you need numbers? If you did it whole your time too, you will be saint too.

[emprworm]

well i dont want to comment on something I don't know about. I know nothing about MT receiving millions of dollars.

Acriku are you 100% absolutely certain that this money was under MT

[Edric O]

Teresa received millions (non-taxed) of dollars, insurance does not get you the best doctor town, but millions of dollars sure do, oh and why didn't Empr and Edric start their own sisterhood? (albeit they are not female) When Empr and Edric were given antibiotics to use to ease any pain and suffering the poor people had, or to buy, why did they refuse them all? And mind you, I don't have hatred of her because she's a catholic, it's because she didn't save them, didn't relieve any pain, nor suffering, she didn't give them hope (hard to have hope while you are screaming in pain and agony), and did it because of her beliefs! They were victims of her beliefs, because she thought they would be saved! If she is wrong (which I think she is) they died a horrible and painful death for nothing! That is what I am angry at her for!

I thought we had already settled this. WHERE IS YOUR PROOF? All you do is spew out hateful LIES. You don't have a shread of evidence that she did any of those horrible things you describe.

[Acriku]

Edric, how do you propose I get evidence of my accusations? Just what would be evidence for this to you?

Caid, no idea what you said lol.