DukeLeto Posted November 22, 2002 Posted November 22, 2002 I hate to say this...but...There is an officially authorized D2 clone, complete with updated graphics and a smoother interface.It's called Dune 2000! That's basically what D2k is, people!Just a thought...
Falconius Posted November 23, 2002 Posted November 23, 2002 Duke LetoAnd i hate to say this to you...You have no idea how difficult it was for us dune-editing people to do anyting with D2k. Westwood didn't give us any map tools or MOD tools like with the already released Red Alert. Most of the little we were able to do with D2k was through long hours of very hard work on the part of people like Koen van de Sande.BTW what did you think of the thopters in D2k? ::)
stefanhendriks Posted November 23, 2002 Posted November 23, 2002 Dune 2000 is claimed to be an update. However, it sux! Man, WW used the 'update' thingy as an excuse and to get some money. Its a shame! D2K is just RA with different sounds,gfx and movies. The AI is as stupid as in RA (exact same errors, flaws), same bugs in the engine aswell and the only difference is that you can play it in 32 bit. a Dune 2 clone is a DUNE 2 clone, not an UPDATE. This means, Dune 2 gfx, Dune 2 units, Dune 2 sounds, Dune 2 tactics, etc. I still think Dune 2 is a lot better then Dune 2k. Besides, with some changes i think Dune 2 can be better then the current Dune2k. It would be great to have Dune 2 over the internet/network and such. anyway, my 2 cents...
DukeLeto Posted November 23, 2002 Author Posted November 23, 2002 At least you can select more than one unit at a time in D2k. And it DOES have internet play. And best of all, a skirmish mode.But I do believe I see your point...I think...
stefanhendriks Posted November 23, 2002 Posted November 23, 2002 true, but thats even the same principle as the other C&C engines. Anyhow, i replied to the other stuff in the other topic.
vidiware Posted November 27, 2002 Posted November 27, 2002 Well stefan you have a point d2 sucked...its not same feeling...d2 clone niced2k not so nice
SpiceGuid Posted November 30, 2002 Posted November 30, 2002 Well, no doubt the innovation is on the Dune 2 side.I agree new sounds and graphics are cosmetic.But, in my humble opinion, Dune 2000 is also better regarding any other criteria.Multiplayer:Dune 2 as no multiplayer mode, has ill-balanced units and structures (starport is too fast, just needs outpost).Dune 2000 has multiplayer, and is well-balanced. Campaigns:Dune 2 mainly uses the franchise to introduce spice (and thus sand and terrain) as a ressource.Dune 2000 is much deeper because of a more invasive usage of the Dune movie franchise.For a David Lynch's Dune fan, Dune 2000 is a must-have game, may be the best game in the franchise.Dune 2000 adapts the movie plot to the gaming world and inserts subplots (plans within plans), in a political context (Bene Gesserit, fremens, smugglers and mercenaries) not as intricate as in novels but at least as intricate as in the movie.Dune 2000 engine is certainly much like C&C Red Alert.But I do not need a revolutionary game engine.What I need is emphasis on Dune themes.And this is precisely what is achieved by AI settings in Dune 2000 :- The AI is stupid. This is emphasis on the plot and emperor trap : you are outproduced. When I play Ordos level 8 with "hard" setting I do not need a better AI as I am outnumbered and lose anyway. Having a better AI requires less enemy units which is also less fun.- The AI always acts the same. This is emphasis on the prophecy and prescience theme. Playing Dune 2000 again and again makes you feel somewhat like prescient as you can predict the attacks. The vision is always the same, you have to find a way out. The game in "hard" setting ressembles a puzzle for a prescient fighter. It's not just like playing a RTS game, it's more like intense Dune discipline.Of course all that is poor excuses if you do not feel the fun.I understand that many have been disappointed by Dune 2000, because they expected a milestone like Dune 2.And Dune 2000 is certainly nothing more than Dune 2 in gaming world.But a significant event in Dune games.I greatly appreciate recent Dune 2 clones with Dune2000-like control. At least we will create maps and campaigns like StarCraft fans do since long. SpiceGuid
vidiware Posted December 1, 2002 Posted December 1, 2002 a wise endig of a topic, and adiplomatic ending of a cold war... ;DOk, you have a point, Dune2k is a really good game, but disappointing because we wanted something that gave us the same feeling as Dune2
Ghosty_Square Posted December 1, 2002 Posted December 1, 2002 I don't think WW's aim was to make you feel like having prescient powers... they just couldn't make a good enough AI.
SpiceGuid Posted December 2, 2002 Posted December 2, 2002 Not really the aim but only a clever excuse.See intro by Lady Elara.Game replay is clearly interpretated as prescient vision. In the grand Dune tradition, the player is supposed to be a tool serving the Bene Gesserit program but will actually ruin sisterhood projects, or not accomplish it the expected way.Of course this is a trick, yet it made me enjoyed the game more than without it.Dune 2k does not feel like DuneII because it feels more Dune. At least, taking this direction is audacious because Dune movie is not so popular, even among novel fans. Of course for DuneII fans the change is radical. DuneII is baby-toy colored while Dune 2k inherits the movie darkness.Hopefully the debate will soon be closed, because DuneII clones will give what DuneII fans expected. Needless to say, IMHO Dune 2k is in no way an excuse for not making DuneII clones or stating they are useless.Definitely, whatever Dune game, I need a campaign editor. Westwood should have included one in Dune 2k, with movie characters as special units. Then we could have made missions such as Paul and Jessica escaping worms, hiding with fremens and hunted by harkonnens.SpiceGuid
vidiware Posted December 2, 2002 Posted December 2, 2002 I agree with the most of it... ::)Moderator, gob or someone, you should decide if this post should be locked or not
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