Spew All About Politics Here

[VigilVirus]

Still, no single country can defend against all of the others. It would be a hard fight, but the economy of US would not sirvive the strain.

[VigilVirus]

As an example, think of it as Emperor Corrino vs the houses of Landstraad. The Houses would definetly win.

[Anathema]

US would not want war with other major countries because of this little thing:

Nuclear war threat

the other countries would not want to wage war with the US because of this little thing:

Nuclear war threat.

When we complete our Star Wars laser defense system, then not even nuclear weapons can hurt us.

Ah yes, the SDI project. That would protect you against ICBMSs, but if somebody manages to smuggle a nuke to your country no laser satelites aren't going to protect you. Besides, you don't know what countries like China will come up with.

[VigilVirus]

Not only that, it won't even help against short-range nukes, like once launched from a sub or dropped from a plane.

[Edric O]

Leto is right:

Here's an idea: Why does everyone want to kill everyone else?! That makes no sense at all!! Why would the US, or China, or England, or Canada, or anyone else want to simply KILL FOR THE SAKE OF KILLING?! JESUS, PEOPLE! THINK!!!

Now can anyone please tell me why the last 3 pages are filled with meaningless off-topic spam?

[emprworm]

Ah yes, the SDI project. That would protect you against ICBMSs, but if somebody manages to smuggle a nuke to your country no laser satelites aren't going to protect you. Besides, you don't know what countries like China will come up with.

im not worried about smuggled nukes in the least. people have been trying to smuggle destructive weapons in the US for decades. They succeed on occasion, but the damage is inevitably minimal.

look at 9/11. In all honesty, it was minor actual damage. yet as a result, our weapons spending increased 2 fold. so, due to that little attack, we have yet even MORE weapons! we didn't get weaker, we got stronger.

smuggled nukes is a minor irritant- not a major threat by any means.

Besides, you don't know what countries like China will come up with

lol! This is what it all comes down to in a world invasion of the US: communist china. I keep hearing you guys refer to "china this"...."china that". The whole foundation of your little World invasion of the US always comes back to pure, unadultered communism. And its no wonder. What a laugh it would be if the population of Chad, Africa invaded the US with a bunch of sticks and spears. Your only hope for success comes down to communism. And even that would fail utterly. I really dont worry at all about what China comes up with. The GDP of china is about 3k per year. On average, the chinese people are impoverished. Thus the beauty of communism

Not only that, it won't even help against short-range nukes, like once launched from a sub or dropped from a plane.

nukes from a sub are long range unless the sub is dumb enough to think its going to get right up to our shores. Nuclear bombs dropped from a plane will not be stopped by SDI, but you have one little problem: there will be no enemy aircraft flying over the united states. Where will it take off from? Just how do you think you will have an enemy airstrip located in Mexico without such airstrip being annihilated into dust? And once the US knows you are trying to use nukes on them, do you honestly think China will even exist on a map anymore? The world, if it went nuclear on the US just might take out the US, but that is a MAYBE (due to poor range of the majority of the world's nuclear capabilities). However, it is a DEFINITE resounding YES! that the US will take out the world in an all out nuclear attack.

[Edric O]

China is about as close to true communism as the US is to feudalism.

[emprworm]

true communism is simply communism as it is practiced. I dont have "ideal" definitions of words that do not exist in the real world like you do, Edric. You have this idea of "pure communism" which has no reflection upon reality. Whatever kind of fictional (non-existant) communism you have in your mind is just that: something from a novel.

I base my definitions of governmhent upon ones that actually exist.

China's communistic government is a repugnant repulsion. It might not meet the fictional non-reality "pure ideal" definition of the word, but communist nontheless.

[Edric O]

True communism is the system developed and thought out in great detail by Karl Marx. You don't have to be rocket scientist to see that China is communist in name only.

Do the recent "elections" (cough cough) in Iraq make it a democracy? Of course not. Neither does China's self-proclaimed "communism" make it truly communist.

[emprworm]

i dont have to be a rocket scientist either to know that communism as practiced by human beings will never match the definition of communism on paper. Yet i also know that we need a practical, working definition of communism. I am not going to give China a free pass. We must label China as something- a country that upholds and honors Karl Marx. A country that strives to meet those ideals. A country that IS communistic. China is communism as it is PRACTICED, which falls short of the ideal, yet still is accurate to say it is communist.

If you call it a democracy, you are sorely mistaken.

Or....what are you calling it then?

[Edric O]

i dont have to be a rocket scientist either to know that communism as practiced by human beings will never match the definition of communism on paper.

Prove it. All you have are a few cases where communism failed miserabely. But how can you prove that it will ALWAYS do that?

Don't get me wrong, I don't support communism. Yes, I believe it to be a generally very good idea, but with a few minor (and fatal) flaws. That's why I'm not a communist.

I label China as pseudo-communism. And Iraq as a centralized dictatorship.

[emprworm]

Prove it.

prove what? That communism as practiced does not match communism on paper? Ok. Government of China.

All you have are a few cases where communism failed miserabely. But how can you prove that it will ALWAYS do that?

i dont say anything about always. I simply look at communism as practiced today. What I see is China. They readilly call themselves communist. So do sociologists. Here let me give you some references:

http://www.chinatoday.com/org/cpc/ - this is a pro china website.

http://mama.essortment.com/chinawhatkind_rjng.htm statistical and sociological analysis of China's government. conclusion: communist state

a nice summary of Chinesese government:

The Chinese have a unique form of government. It consists of periods of time called Dynasties. Dynasties consist of many rulers. We are primarily studying the Shang.

T'ANG, THE FOUNDER OF THE SHANG DYNASTY.

EARLY DYNASTIES

SHANG DYNASTY - 1766-1066 BC

ZHOU DYNASTY - 1066-221 BC

QIN DYNASTY - 221-206 B

HAN DYNASTY - 206 BC-221 AD

SAN GUO(THREE KINGDOMS) - 221-280 AD

WEST JIN - 280-316 AD

The Government Now

As of 1912 the Chinese went from an empire to a communist government. Just in 1997 the Chinese government took back Hong Kong from the British.

I dont think, Edric, you will find one reputable source that says China is not a communist government. Just because you might Not make a paper-match to Karl Marx does not mean you are not communist. I really dont know why you would hold that position.

I label China as pseudo-communism.

you can call it whatever has meaning to you. It is more communist than anything else.

Labelling a government has no meaning if you do not apply it to ACTUAL governments. China actually exists. Therefore, it must have an ACTUAL government. And that ACTUAL government needs an ACTUAL name.

And Iraq as a centralized dictatorship.

we already knew this, i'm not sure why you said that. Are you implying that I said otherwise?

[Andrew]

soo....back to politics, who here likes the Liberals or PC in Canada? 8)

[Anathema]

The first real communists, the Russian Bolsjewists, assumed that for a socialist state the people would need to be leaded by a small group of labourers who would know what is best for the people, the dictature of labour. Only after the socialist society had been established democracy could be practiced. Stalin, however, put to much pressure on the economy, ignoring the advices of all his advisors who warned him for his actions.

You want a working example of communism. Cuba. It's not perfect, but hey, communism is less then a century old and capitalism has existed since modern man.

I am not a communist. I am a social democrat. In societies like mine a revolution is unnecessary and uncalled for and reforms should be made democraticly.

[emprworm]

and the cuban government is loaded with people CONSTANTLY trying to flee to the united states. the entire country would probably migrate here if we would allow them. unfortunately for communist cuba, no one cares about going to their country, hence they have no immigration problem.

[Anathema]

Duh, what do you expect? Those Cubans blame Castro for not giving them a television set. ::)

When Castro took over, Cuba was a worthless farming island. He disposed of the facist dictator Batista (a US supported dictator) and builded up Cuba to one of the wealthiest nations in central America, with one of the best healthcare systems in the world. Cuba has more docters per capita then the US.

And he did an excellent job considering the circumstances. When he took over, all of Batistas rich friends fled with their blood tainted money because they didn't want to share it with the people they stole it from. So they ran off and colonised the US.

[VigilVirus]

Communism cannot truly exist because of the evil and selfish nature of man. True equality cannot exist when you are talking about a human society and that is why ideal communism won't work. But certainly no form of government could be practiced ideally - capitalism also looked a lot better on paper, but as you see, there are a lot of problems with it, for example an uncontrollable economy prone to frequent downfalls.

[emprworm]

an example of how a good health care system means nothing if your people are unhappy. the point? scores cuban people are UNHAPPY and would rather forfeit their free health care and come to the US.

giving a man free health care is meaningless in the context of societal misery.

[nemafakei]

3 pages of off-topic posting that seemed rather heated... a warning: let's not go back onto that sort of topic again, else the thread will be completely thrown (and completely locked, too, I should imagine).

"scores cuban people are UNHAPPY and would rather forfeit their free health care and come to the US"

The point was, less so than before Castro. Not as an absolute.

[emprworm]

*OFF TOPIC*

3 pages of off-topic posting that seemed rather heated... a warning: let's not go back onto that sort of topic again, else the thread will be completely thrown (and completely locked, too, I should imagine).

well i know that you have that authority to lock the thread, but I dont see how it was off topic. It was entirely a political discussion. Heated? Not really, it wasn't personal by any means. No one ever called me names, no one ever said #$$# off to anyone. I really honestly don't see what was wrong with it. War and politics are not very seperate, and I think that a discussion regarding nuclear war is OK in a political thread. Don't you?

would you be so kind as to say how a discussion about nuclear war and communism is out of line in a thread about politics?

[VigilVirus]

well i know that you have that authority to lock the thread, but I dont see how it was off topic. It was entirely a political discussion. Heated? Not really, it wasn't personal by any means. No one ever called me names, no one ever said #$$# off to anyone. I really honestly don't see what was wrong with it. War and politics are not very seperate, and I think that a discussion regarding nuclear war is OK in a political thread. Don't you?

would you be so kind as to say how a discussion about nuclear war and communism is out of line in a thread about politics?

Heh, I agree.

[Anathema]

an example of how a good health care system means nothing if your people are unhappy. the point? scores cuban people are UNHAPPY and would rather forfeit their free health care and come to the US.

giving a man free health care is meaningless in the context of societal misery.

Social misery? A facist dictator that pillages your towns and kills your family doesn't cause misery?

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Technology - As in Weapons, Rifles, Harriers, you know the little plane who can launch off in every direction; They bought that from the british and improved it. Rocket technology, which they stole from the Germans in WW2. The jet propulsion which they stole from the Germans. Alot of technology comes from other countries.

And sorry, you're not my mentor and I don't care if you whine about lies, go back and praise bush for his "deeds"

Propoganda doesn't really touch my heart either.

And you heard about radars? They will detect your fragile little submarine and disperse them with some nice rockets from a jet fighter or some deep sea cluster bombs. So please educate yourself more about weapons and recon matters thank you.

And so do we??? We know where their troops are, are you planning to fight hundreds of "strong" highly advanced battle ships, which are improved in the walk of modern times.

*Shrugs* And we can fire orbital missles as well, besides, "they" can be detected.

[emprworm]

*Shrugs* And we can fire orbital missles as well, besides, "they" can be detected.

you have no such devices! No matter what you say, you have no ability to win. Go look at my cool pictures again and think to yourself: "if 100 million americans own those, how in the world could my countrymen, which own a bunch of rocks and tree branches stand a chance?"

btw: how are your friends with illegal weapons doing?

regarding Castro: Yea, some could almost say Cuba is more facist then communist. Would that be inaccurate?

[VigilVirus]

I'd say of those 100 million citizens only 50% know how to shoot a gun well and only 10% of those 50% would be brave enough to oppose a trained force. And those 5 million that are left would get slaughtered by the enemy - you need more than a handgun to fight a war.