[WIP] Smugglers Campaign 2!

[Fey]

1 minute ago, Cm_blast said:

Yeah, "bear" in spanish xD.

Jokes asides, you are using plenty of names for new enemies, that's interesting; I wonder the "new" stuff that they will use on the battlefield. Probably you are abusing test.uibs to do some new naming, right?

OSO = Ordos Special Operations XD

Yeah, since the Palaces have new names I feel better about letting the smugglers or mercs build the ones that give you Saboteurs. They're not necessarily affiliated with one House, but they are iconic of a certain House. Sardaukar Gholas are the actual in-game names for the Sardaukar on SBON2 since you do get to train them if you capture a Tleilaxu Barracks, and Phantom Penance has a ton of custom text due to the nature of that mission.

I can't rename each Combat Tank, they only have one name, but the custom texts are also necessary to make the "Faction has turned hostile!" messages work. Otherwise, if you tick off some neutral Imperials, it'll say that the mercs have become hostile. That Combat Tank fix took one hell of a workaround. lol

[Runtowin]

Recently got a job. It greatly reduces time I spent on Dune compared to before. Anyway, here we go:

S12V1:

 

Quote

- At the start, constant enemy attacking forced me to quickly tech up Rocket Turret. I mostly focused on economy at the start.
- Once my main base defense was good enough, I expanded to the southwest dirt (below enemy base) to take control of nearby spice field. As the starting land is too small, this place speed up my tank production to storm the western base.
- After a few tries (5 or so), I managed to brute force through that small gap. Destroyed most buildings, except High Tech Factory, 3 Wind Traps, 4 Silos, Capturing them rewarded me spice and Ornithopter.
- I also build a turret wall at that base. At this point, I have three bases in total. Enemy, for some reason, foolishly charged through, and were being picked one by one.
- BTW, I hate that harvester-without-refinery replacement.
- My conquest proceeded to the northwestern. Due to me harassing harvester earlier, remaining enemies are low on resource. Still needing to spend 2 waves of tank, I destroyed all production building & Wind Trap of northeast base.
- I saw Devastator. Yes, they're very impatient, they broke through the wall and cleared up defensive enemy in the base for me (no building though). Yay.
- And they went back, maybe due to their satisfaction from rampage in enemy base.
- No Wind Trap, no spice, the northwestern base could not recover, I left them alone. I flanked the northwestern base from the north, again destroying all Wind Trap in the process.
- The rest was easy, enemy didn't put much resistance.
- I never saw the infantry path in the middle of the map until the end.
- Enemy never harvest topright corner spice.
- I only freed the Devastator once most enemies were eliminated. I was scared of what you had in store. Luckily, none.

Feedback:
- Despite constant enemy attack at beginning, due to the abundant of safe spice field, I never feel being troubled.
- Thanks to all that resources, I think it's quite easy to harass enemy harvester until they're weak. There are more spice near your base, they will comedown sooner or later.

- The unknown is all talk, but no action. Weak.
- Overall, the map was a little difficult at the start, but easy late game.
 

S13 and SBON2 coming soon!

[Fey]

2 hours ago, Runtowin said:

Recently got a job. It greatly reduces time I spent on Dune compared to before. Anyway, here we go:

Ah, we were wondering where you vanished to! It's so nice to hear from you again, Runtowin.

2 hours ago, Runtowin said:

- At the start, constant enemy attacking forced me to quickly tech up Rocket Turret. I mostly focused on economy at the start.
- Once my main base defense was good enough, I expanded to the southwest dirt (below enemy base) to take control of nearby spice field. As the starting land is too small, this place speed up my tank production to storm the western base.
- After a few tries (5 or so), I managed to brute force through that small gap. Destroyed most buildings, except High Tech Factory, 3 Wind Traps, 4 Silos, Capturing them rewarded me spice and Ornithopter.

Hmm. Do you think the attacks at the beginning are a little too intense? Should I have the enemy's attacks be reduced a little sooner?

It's good to know that the MCV reinforcement went to use. That's exactly what it was for! I tried to make the beginning island large enough to start with, but small enough for a player to want to expand. That worked out, right?

I should also increase the size of the gap on the left side of the map, if only a little. Well done taking out that base first, by the way! Although it has a lot of juicy targets in close proximity, those targets are well protected by an abundance of choke points, turrets, and artillery units. ...I should remove a few turrets from that base...

2 hours ago, Runtowin said:

- I also build a turret wall at that base. At this point, I have three bases in total. Enemy, for some reason, foolishly charged through, and were being picked one by one.
- BTW, I hate that harvester-without-refinery replacement.
- My conquest proceeded to the northwestern. Due to me harassing harvester earlier, remaining enemies are low on resource. Still needing to spend 2 waves of tank, I destroyed all production building & Wind Trap of northeast base.

Nice use of utility units. And turret range. The new turrets are amazingly effective at greater range, despite demanding more resources and maintenance.

The one where the enemies get a new Harvester even though there's no Refinery? Aye, sorry about that. Unfortunately, I only have room in conditions to make two of the replacement events Refinery-dependent. That is the way the original game's replacement events work, at least, so it's not unfamiliar. Hopefully there's enough infantry rock scattered around to help your infantry against whatever may attempt to crush them!

The final base's firing line of turrets is pretty strong, but the ten Devastators in the back of it will make extremely short work of their Wind Traps once freed. And there should be a good amount of infantry rock around for the Troopers to hit the turrets with!

2 hours ago, Runtowin said:

- I saw Devastator. Yes, they're very impatient, they broke through the wall and cleared up defensive enemy in the base for me (no building though). Yay.
- And they went back, maybe due to their satisfaction from rampage in enemy base.

They broke out?! O.o Darn it. I'll give the Devastators another look before the next draft.

They're in a defense area in the back of the enemy base, to be specific. They stay there until the turret on the corner of their cell is destroyed.

2 hours ago, Runtowin said:

- No Wind Trap, no spice, the northwestern base could not recover, I left them alone. I flanked the northwestern base from the north, again destroying all Wind Trap in the process.
- The rest was easy, enemy didn't put much resistance.
- I never saw the infantry path in the middle of the map until the end.
- Enemy never harvest topright corner spice.
- I only freed the Devastator once most enemies were eliminated. I was scared of what you had in store. Luckily, none.

Hitting the other base from the north is a good idea since their Refineries are in proxy bases. I plan to make less use of proxy bases in the future, and in fact I might come back to this one and re-think the terrain design a little bit. I would rather there be more empty rocks around, maybe occupied by enemy units... but, not housing enemy structures.

Aside from the ten Devastators helping out with the last part of the map, what do you suppose I could do to make the rest more exciting? 😮

That's fine. You took a path up around the left side of the map and didn't strike through the center to the top-right base, so that infantry-only wasn't scouted.

The top right corner is harvested at the start of the game, but will refresh with blooms. It's a convenient location if the player decides to expand to that location, but it could be a little bigger.

Once the turret on the corner of their cell is destroyed, the Devastators will enter a berserk state and proceed to hunt down enemy units anywhere on the map. This helps to finish up the map sooner, but they do need to be protected. Summers will comment if one of them is destroyed, stating that all units should form up around the tanks.

2 hours ago, Runtowin said:

Feedback:
- Despite constant enemy attack at beginning, due to the abundant of safe spice field, I never feel being troubled.
- Thanks to all that resources, I think it's quite easy to harass enemy harvester until they're weak. There are more spice near your base, they will comedown sooner or later.

You're right. Hopefully the enemy attacks were sufficient enough to keep things dangerous enough, despite that!

That said, I'll see what I can do to expand Spice fields further northwest and reduce them further southeast. Less thick Spice, more blooms. That should do. And maybe I can reduce the amount of enemy Harvesters...

2 hours ago, Runtowin said:

- The unknown is all talk, but no action. Weak.
- Overall, the map was a little difficult at the start, but easy late game.

On that subject, I'm actually developing the mod some more and I've come up with a few new units without breaking the game to add them. Details below the spoiler:

Spoiler

Duelist Tank: https://prnt.sc/l1b69h
Class: Armor
Strength: 2400
Armor: Heavy
Speed: Slow
Cost: 800
Armament: High-explosive cannon
Description: The Duelist Tank is an armored vehicle of Ixian design effective in close range. Its cannon strikes hard against any unit on the battlefield and can be fired over walls. With the exception of Missile Tanks, Rocket Turrets, and the almighty Devastator tank, the Duelist Tank can match any other single unit or structure in combat. It may be seen on the battlefield under the command of any faction that frequently purchases from the Ix, or under the command of any faction assisting the Ix. House Tleilaxu is forbidden from purchasing these units.

Lightning Tank: https://prnt.sc/l1b6nu
Class: Armor
Strength: 1800
Armor: Light
Speed: Very fast
Cost: 600
Armament: Lightning cannon
Description: Lightning Tanks are unique weapons deployed exclusively by the unknown enemies. They have a very short range, but a blinding movement speed and fast attack rate. Fortunately, they aren't sturdy enough to crush infantry and can be outmatched by standard Combat Tanks. However, their weapons are effective against all targets, can arc over Concrete Walls, and they can be a significant threat in groups. Should these units appear on the battlefield, taking out the Heavy Factory or Research Centre will halt Lightning Tank production.

RPG Quad: https://prnt.sc/l1b83x
Class: Artillery
Strength: 1200
Armor: Light
Speed: Fast
Cost: 500
Armament: RPG launcher, rocket launcher
Description: Standard Quads with mounted RPG launchers. They can launch grenades over longer distance and with greater force than Grenadiers to kill infantry, and they're doubly capable of striking nearby targets with their rocket launchers. Since they are a combination of generic technology, any faction may make use of these units. However, they are rarely seen on the battlefield since their role is normally filled by Grenadiers, which make smaller targets amidst supported vehicles, and standard Quads, which have dedicated weapons systems that fire rockets faster.

That new unit used by the unknowns may or may not appear in S12 or S13V1 in the next drafts. It might be used in S15+, alone... still thinking on it. About S12 though, do you have any more suggestions of your own for improving the difficulty between the early and late game?

2 hours ago, Runtowin said:

S13 and SBON2 coming soon!

Didn't you already play SBON2? 😮 Well, it was updated so I hope you enjoy it again. And I REALLY hope you like S13V1 / V2! V2 executes a unique concept, so I'm very eager to hear what you think of it.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Fey

[Runtowin]

S13V1:
 

Quote

- Well, this mission is... uneventful. After I received two MCV from Durant, I took one to bottom left corner, and build a small base there. I built 4 Wind Traps, 1 Refinery, 1 Barrack, 1 Heavy Factory, 1 Light Factory, and 5 Silos there,
- Since the only entrance was guarded by Durant, plus a large spice field nearby, my units were idle most of the time. I watched the conflict between 3 factions while building units.
- The Ordos destroyed the middle base of the Unknown, Not sure if it was intended.
- After some time, to hasten the game, I decided to use my second MCV to build a base directly west of Durant's base. I built 2 more Refineries, 2 Barracks, 2 Light Factories in order to build unit faster.
- Defending that base was not a hassle, since I already made a rather large army.
- I took out Ordos without a sweet. The battle between the Unknown and House Ordos left them both starved of resource.
- The Unknown was down without much trouble.

Feedback:
- This mission is easy, too easy for what I expected. Durant is good enough to shelter my base so I can make unit without fighting.
- Also a lot of safe spice on the right. Late game, every faction's harvesters rush down there.
- I'm not really sure what is the theme of this mission. Overall, this mission needs to be harder somehow.
 

S13V2:

 

Quote

- Contrary to V1, this mission is much harder. 3 Ornithopter Squads were on to me. Plus constant enemy attack from all side.
- Destroying the Modified Output was quite difficult due to House Ordos kept chasing my assault squad.
- Even if I did, I never managed to defend it. A large group of Ordos army came and crushed the base in no time.
- After taking out the southwestern air base. The game became kind of stalemate, without turret, most of my troops had to defend against both House Ordos and the Unknown, they concentrated on my Harvesters.
- I couldn't attack in large group, 2 air bases bombed my building. I had to assemble small suicide squad tickling down the middle air base. After 3 suicide squads, the second air base at the middle of the map was down. Again, Ordos swarmed in and left nothing alive.
- The stalemate continued, though my economy was then better. I sent 5 suicide Harvesters, combined with a small assault squad. I dealt a heavy blow to that Western Ordos base. CY, Barrack, Refinery, Light Factory was destroyed. That base was then useless, their mission was successful.
- The tide had changed, I had more room to breath, I started to harass Ordos's harvester. Ordos' Northwestern base's economy was non-existent.
- The resistance of The Unknown base was strong, 4 Harvester to draws enemy focus + my main army. I captured the northeastern air base, and removed the Unknown from mission.
- I flanked the Ordos from the east. All my attacks always had Harvester in it. They were key to my victory. After 2 waves, 2 Refineries, CY, Barrack, Output were gone.
- The rest was easy.

Feedback:
- Since Ornithopter is available too late, they feel kind of unnecessary.
- There wasn't much room to flank. Most of the time, there was only one road leading to my base. That means, attacking team will easily draw the focus of enemy attack.
- Without Turret, I think defending the air base doesn't worth the risk. You have to build troops constantly to defend both your main base and satellite base. With two Ordos on your tail. the micro tax is quite severe.
- Overall, compared to V1, this is a leap in difficulty. I must say the map was quite challenging, though I feel protecting the air base is too hard for little gain.

 

2 hours ago, Fey said:

Hmm. Do you think the attacks at the beginning are a little too intense? Should I have the enemy's attacks be reduced a little sooner?

I think the my starting units were too strong to defend against those attacks. That's Sonic Tank for you.

2 hours ago, Fey said:

Aside from the ten Devastators helping out with the last part of the map, what do you suppose I could do to make the rest more exciting? 😮

I think it's fine, Player can choose whatever way they prefer. If any, enlarge the small gap of the path at the right edge of the map. It's hard to flank when the path is small and has a strong defense.

2 hours ago, Fey said:

The top right corner is harvested at the start of the game, but will refresh with blooms. It's a convenient location if the player decides to expand to that location, but it could be a little bigger.

Maybe, I saw dense spice and all the tile had spice there

2 hours ago, Fey said:

On that subject, I'm actually developing the mod some more and I've come up with a few new units without breaking the game to add them. Details below the spoiler: 

This mod is starting to get exciting. Do you need to replace other unit with it? I am thinking of update my campaign to include your mod.

2 hours ago, Fey said:

do you have any more suggestions of your own for improving the difficulty between the early and late game?

Nothing comes to mind. Unless, well, infinity reinforcement. Hahaha.

2 hours ago, Fey said:

Didn't you already play SBON2? 😮 Well, it was updated so I hope you enjoy it again. And I REALLY hope you like S13V1 / V2! V2 executes a unique concept, so I'm very eager to hear what you think of it.

Yes, I forgot. I notice some big changes in those mission, might replay them.

[Fey]

I need to head out in a few minutes, but I wanted to at least reply to a couple of things!

5 hours ago, Runtowin said:

This mod is starting to get exciting. Do you need to replace other unit with it? I am thinking of update my campaign to include your mod.

Yes and no. Adding new units to the game is actually impossible, but you can edit existing units. The Duelist Tank is the Thumper, the Lightning Tank is the version of the Sardaukar that is normally built via having an Imperial Palace, and the RPG Quad is the first of the two Carryalls. I had to remove the special behavior for the Atreides High Tech Factory entirely and make the second Carryall available to all sides to achieve that... you cannot build the RPG Quad from any factories due to behavior issues, but it can be dropped via reinforcements onto the map, which is a-okay for me! Ornithopters still work only for the Atreides, too.

If you try to overwrite CARRYALL2, it will crash the game because that's the version of the Carryall that's hard-coded to fly in from off the map to deliver reinforcements, new Harvesters, etc.

So, no units were really replaced. The MP_Sardaukar is the only one the AI was ever using, the Carryall still takes total precedence over the RPG Quad which enables the overwrite to work, and the Thumper couldn't be trained anyway. You COULD add more new units if you're willing to replace other stuff, like the Engineer or MCV or something. And I'm thinking of adding a new building, but that will require some spritework and some tinkering with unknown bytes, so I don't know how that will go. I'm not sure I can add a new rotating turret, but how about a stationary Lightning Tower with a massive range? Or something. I'll see if I can get it to work before I go drawing anything.

Edit: Lightning tower works. Electric sparks around the structure, instantly strikes a far-away location for great damage, ten second recharge time between attacks. Just need a sprite for it, which shouldn't be too hard, but it does mean yet another file needs to be edited for the mod to work. I'm gonna do it like Cm does from now on and put all the necessary files in their respective folders within the .zip, and include a backup folder for easy replacement.

You're more than welcome to examine my mod and have a look at how the new units were added. I'll send a TibEd link to you in direct messaging.

5 hours ago, Runtowin said:

Yes, I forgot. I notice some big changes in those mission, might replay them.

Nothing too big, just some expanded terrain and stuff. If you do, I hope you have fun.

I'll check over the completed mission details and reply to them later. See ya later!

Edited October 6, 2018 by Fey

[Fey]

Alright, I'm back. Let's see now...

17 hours ago, Runtowin said:

S13V1:
- Well, this mission is... uneventful. After I received two MCV from Durant, I took one to bottom left corner, and build a small base there. I built 4 Wind Traps, 1 Refinery, 1 Barrack, 1 Heavy Factory, 1 Light Factory, and 5 Silos there,
- Since the only entrance was guarded by Durant, plus a large spice field nearby, my units were idle most of the time. I watched the conflict between 3 factions while building units.
- The Ordos destroyed the middle base of the Unknown, Not sure if it was intended.
- After some time, to hasten the game, I decided to use my second MCV to build a base directly west of Durant's base. I built 2 more Refineries, 2 Barracks, 2 Light Factories in order to build unit faster.
- Defending that base was not a hassle, since I already made a rather large army.
- I took out Ordos without a sweet. The battle between the Unknown and House Ordos left them both starved of resource.
- The Unknown was down without much trouble.

You only deployed one of the two MCVs? Hmm. That was unexpected.

Half the unknowns tend to go towards Durant while the other half go towards the Ordos. The Ordos have a preference for attacking the unknowns until you arrive around the middle or eastern islands, but since you never deployed a second MCV, that didn't happen. The two rock islands which are explored from the start, mainly, are the central and southwest since you start at the southwest and Durant's forces return from scouting the east, but once you contact him there are even more islands with some infantry scattered around. They're not fully explored though, the infantry are around the borders.

Aye, the Ordos tend to totally level that expansion on their own. It's convenient since your own forces don't have a good angle of attack to take that base out... but I suppose it could be made harder for them. Maybe that mega-turret could be added atop the plateau in place of all the Rocket Turrets... and if I give the unknowns some Lightning Tank reinforcements to attack Durant with, that might be better. And I could expand the terrain so the AIs will be further apart from each-other, but want to attack you...

You mean on the central island? That's my favorite primary spot, secondary with Wind Traps and maybe a Refinery or two would be bottom left or bottom right. I guess I should have expected that someone would start in only one location lol. It usually comes under attack fairly often. Not too difficult to defend, and you get a nice spot to attack the Ordos from.

18 hours ago, Runtowin said:

Feedback:
- This mission is easy, too easy for what I expected. Durant is good enough to shelter my base so I can make unit without fighting.
- Also a lot of safe spice on the right. Late game, every faction's harvesters rush down there.
- I'm not really sure what is the theme of this mission. Overall, this mission needs to be harder somehow.

Your first base in the bottom left, anyway. Reinforcements for the unknowns and expanding the terrrain so the Ordos and unknowns will have a preference for attacking you or Durant would be good. Or, at least the unknowns. Then you'd need to defend Durant somewhat since his survival is mandatory for mission success. I want to make deploying in the rear of his base a strategically viable option since you can cover each-other better, but it shouldn't be THAT incredible. I'll keep thinking on ways to make it more difficult.

Ah, thanks for the heads up. I'll see about fixing that. By the way, how is the terrain on these recent 3 maps? S13V1's rock islands are rough, they all have some extra rocks strewn about for added effect.

The theme? What do you mean? If you mean, like, the storyline thus far, it has to do with the second bonus mission. Durant's forces stumbled across a Tleilaxu operation at Shield Wall and one of Summers' neighboring bases came under attack shortly after that battle began in an attempt to keep word from getting out. Since Summers planned to investigate anyway, the unknowns changed their strategy and planned a trap at False Wall (S12) for you. You manage to rescue your captured forces, but the unknowns are successful in delaying you. On S13V1, you're rushing to his defense in distant Almiraz Graben and find that he's still alive, but engaged with the Ordos and, once the mission starts, the unknowns too. On S13V2, you take a detour through Bidriyah Sink because the air bases there will ferry reinforcements for the Ordos to Almiraz Graben, which is why you see so much Ordos reinforcement on S13V1.

In the briefing for either version of S13, it's revealed that Durant found plans for a ghola of Emperor Corrino commissioned by the Ordos in the base of the Tleilaxu who attacked him. So, the Ordos are in on this - working with the Tleilaxu and trying to kill you, it would seem. That does make the motives of the unknowns unclear, for now, since they indirectly assisted the Tleilaxu in False Wall and fought the Ordos in Almiraz Graben or Bidriyah Sink. Who are they working with, what are they working towards, and why? Find out in the next exciting episode of... the smugglers campaign 2! Return of the revenge of... umm... stuff, xtreme.

18 hours ago, Runtowin said:

S13V2:
- Contrary to V1, this mission is much harder. 3 Ornithopter Squads were on to me. Plus constant enemy attack from all side.
- Destroying the Modified Output was quite difficult due to House Ordos kept chasing my assault squad.
- Even if I did, I never managed to defend it. A large group of Ordos army came and crushed the base in no time.
- After taking out the southwestern air base. The game became kind of stalemate, without turret, most of my troops had to defend against both House Ordos and the Unknown, they concentrated on my Harvesters.
- I couldn't attack in large group, 2 air bases bombed my building. I had to assemble small suicide squad tickling down the middle air base. After 3 suicide squads, the second air base at the middle of the map was down. Again, Ordos swarmed in and left nothing alive.
- The stalemate continued, though my economy was then better. I sent 5 suicide Harvesters, combined with a small assault squad. I dealt a heavy blow to that Western Ordos base. CY, Barrack, Refinery, Light Factory was destroyed. That base was then useless, their mission was successful.
- The tide had changed, I had more room to breath, I started to harass Ordos's harvester. Ordos' Northwestern base's economy was non-existent.
- The resistance of The Unknown base was strong, 4 Harvester to draws enemy focus + my main army. I captured the northeastern air base, and removed the Unknown from mission.
- I flanked the Ordos from the east. All my attacks always had Harvester in it. They were key to my victory. After 2 waves, 2 Refineries, CY, Barrack, Output were gone.
- The rest was easy.

Aye, it didn't feel like so much of a leap to me after I deployed in a more exposed location in S13V1. Again, it was a different perspective kind of thing lol

All of the air bases are defended by hostile turrets and enemy forces, but everything in an air base is turned friendly to you and hostile to the enemy when a Control Node is taken out. The turrets at each air base are therefore extremely valuable, and it encourages a player to take out the Control Node in an air base while leaving the turrets as well enough alone as possible. For example, in the central air base I took out the defending Ordos forces from as far away as I could, then rushed in with Troopers and Quads to take out that Control Node. On the southwest one, I took out the two Rocket Turrets on the right side of the base but defended the location from the left side. And on the northeastern air base, the two Rocket Turrets on the left cliff edge were left alone since they are very effective at stopping Ordos forces from coming up. Some Grenadiers covering those work wonders.

It's strange that you were unable to defend any of the air bases; I managed to take and hold each one, and finish the map in about half an hour. I just kept the turrets alive and moved my Sonic Tanks and MCVs up as needed. The Sonic Tanks do well at supporting the friendly turrets and I deployed my MCVs in these three spots:
https://prnt.sc/l35mtn

As you can see, I established my first expansion just outside the main. I pushed straight up to the middle, took out the central Control Node and moved the battle to the center of the map. Then, I placed my third where I could set up a Barracks, some walls, some Grenadiers and a Sonic Tank on the cliff edge, and then took on the unknowns. I'd say it was about ten minutes after I set up my first expansion before I actually moved up to the center. I first set up some walls there and placed Grenadiers behind the one covering the infantry-only, and a Sonic Tank with some light vehicle support covered the first ConYard.

Huh? The FINAL Ordos' base moved its Harvesters out from its little sinkhole? That's not right. Then again, I guess since the map went on longer... hmm. I might need to expand this map a little, too. I'm happy with the terrain in general, though. It's winding, but not too narrow. There's enough space to assemble troops and attack the enemy, but the map is decorated enough for there to be no blank spaces. Functional and aesthetic! Do you agree?

Hmm. The unknowns, much like the Fremen on S08, have infinite cash but a lower build rate than the other factions on the map. Perhaps, like S08, I should consider giving them a Refinery and increasing the build rate. Again, I didn't have trouble taking them out, but with Cm's test on the new S08 and your test here on S13V2, it seems infinite cash and a lower build rate doesn't function as intended.

The Harvesters are a great idea, but I should point out for the sake of comparison that I never used them. I used infantry rock, cliffs, and standard Light II combat tech. I imagine the Harvesters soaked a lot of fire, which must have been useful, but when I pushed through to the final enemy base, I had three air strikes going out and the top left base only has 100% power. So, when I attacked from both the south and the east, and they were totally out of power, it was one clean sweep and the base was gone. That's how I intended the map to end, ideally - with one final push, bombers flying overhead, after rapid skirmishes all around the winding terrain of Bidriyah Sink.

18 hours ago, Runtowin said:

Feedback:
- Since Ornithopter is available too late, they feel kind of unnecessary.
- There wasn't much room to flank. Most of the time, there was only one road leading to my base. That means, attacking team will easily draw the focus of enemy attack.
- Without Turret, I think defending the air base doesn't worth the risk. You have to build troops constantly to defend both your main base and satellite base. With two Ordos on your tail. the micro tax is quite severe.
- Overall, compared to V1, this is a leap in difficulty. I must say the map was quite challenging, though I feel protecting the air base is too hard for little gain.

They are meant to be a kind of mid- to late-game weapon. They're set on you, or on the unknowns or Ordos, at first. Then, you take out Control Nodes and get them on your side, and they help you while you finish the mission. They're nasty when they're turned on you, it's nice to have them out of the picture entirely, but it's even nicer to have them attacking your enemy instead. Remember, no one on the map has any anti-air and the Rocket Turrets at each air base will never fire on the Ornithopters in the sky. And, the Ordos bases have limited power. Even if an air strike doesn't destroy any Wind Traps, it will definitely knock their power out, meaning the firing lines of turrets are totally useless.

No room to flank? I made sure to give all the bases at least two areas of attack. The southwest base is the most blocked off at the start of the map since there's an Ordos base there and you can't really get around to the left very safely, but you can go down to the right to get in there. The central air base is on a rock island in some flat area, which can be attacked from the south, the east, or via the infantry only in the middle (which is also encouraged by the strong anti-vehicle presence on the bottom left side of the central air base). The unknowns' base can be attacked from two directions from the start, one closest to the light factory and another closest to the Barracks, and there's a neighboring cliff wall perfect for Grenadiers to stand atop. And then, once you destroy or capture an air base, even more avenues of attack open up. Did you do something drastically different that would affect how you can path towards new targets?

Well, you can't build your own turrets, but you have Sonic Tanks and Grenadiers, and you can capture turrets via destroying Control Nodes while leaving the air base defenses intact. Even if the Ornithopters aren't helpful, and they were VERY helpful during my test runs, the turrets are especially helpful since they provide map control and you can't build turrets of your own. The MCVs assist with this since you can set up proxy factories near important locations, which is great for quickly pumping out more units wherever they're needed. Again, I never had a problem defending the Air Towers since I supported the turrets with my artillery units, and scattered some Troopers on infantry rock or under turrets' protection, so... did you destroy all the turrets on your way to a Control Node? Or, did you cut their power? How did you attempt to defend the air bases once the Control Nodes were down?

19 hours ago, Runtowin said:

I think the my starting units were too strong to defend against those attacks. That's Sonic Tank for you.

I think it's fine, Player can choose whatever way they prefer. If any, enlarge the small gap of the path at the right edge of the map. It's hard to flank when the path is small and has a strong defense.

Nothing comes to mind. Unless, well, infinity reinforcement. Hahaha.

XD The Sonic Tanks are pretty nuts, but you do only get a couple of them. You used them well! But, even though defending your own base is easy, it seems attacking the enemy is hard. I need to re-think the balancing on both fronts.

Alright, I'll have a look at that too. The left side is very small, only two tiles, so I want to fix that up too.

Infinite reinforcements? XD Maybe... hmm. I could relocate the northeast Refineries, move them inside the base, if I expand the terrain yet again. That way they'll at least have some resources to spend.

Thanks again for the extensive feedback, Runtowin! I sincerely appreciate all of it! This will greatly help to fix up these maps and make them better than ever.

[Runtowin]

3 hours ago, Fey said:

For example, in the central air base I took out the defending Ordos forces from as far away as I could, then rushed in with Troopers and Quads to take out that Control Node. On the southwest one, I took out the two Rocket Turrets on the right side of the base but defended the location from the left side. And on the northeastern air base, the two Rocket Turrets on the left cliff edge were left alone since they are very effective at stopping Ordos forces from coming up. Some Grenadiers covering those work wonders.

The moment I took my army out, House Ordos immediately rushed in and destroyed them, before I even scratched the base.
For the middle base, I had to use infantry path, 20 - 25 infantries each wave, a mix of Grenadier and Trooper. Of course, House Ordos still prioritize on attacking them.
Same to the left base, I had to  split my army, one for the air base, one to guard the attacking force.

3 hours ago, Fey said:

No room to flank? I made sure to give all the bases at least two areas of attack.

Well, with Ordos' army everywhere, the further another road from my main base, the less chance my even reach these air base.

Besides, only the central air base had more than one road of reasonable flank. They were close to the Unknown base, so whenever I use that road, I engaged both the Unknown and Ordos.

3 hours ago, Fey said:

did you destroy all the turrets on your way to a Control Node? Or, did you cut their power? How did you attempt to defend the air bases once the Control Nodes were down?

I only destroyed the Control Node, even for the left air base. I stationed part of my army to guard them, but they quickly fell apart.

3 hours ago, Fey said:

Ah, thanks for the heads up. I'll see about fixing that. By the way, how is the terrain on these recent 3 maps? S13V1's rock islands are rough, they all have some extra rocks strewn about for added effect.

OK so far. Nothing hurts my eyes.

3 hours ago, Fey said:

The theme? What do you mean?

I meant how the mission was intended to playout. Like "Defend your base and your allies until the enemy exhaust their resources." or "Build quick, strike fast, before enemy get stronger.", etc...

3 hours ago, Fey said:

The Harvesters are a great idea, but I should point out for the sake of comparison that I never used them.

Yes, this tactic is very common in multiplayer. However, for campaign, I only use them as last resort these days.
 

 

22 hours ago, Fey said:

The Duelist Tank is the Thumper, the Lightning Tank is the version of the Sardaukar that is normally built via having an Imperial Palace, and the RPG Quad is the first of the two Carryalls.

Wait, I thought that the second version is only available for Harkonnen in multiplayer, weaker than actual one, definitely not the same as one trained with Imperial Palace.

22 hours ago, Fey said:

You COULD add more new units if you're willing to replace other stuff, like the Engineer or MCV or something

Is it possible to add new infantry, like a sniper or something?
One candidate for replacement is Trike, I always think Trike and Raider are too much alike. They make no different balance-wise. We could remove Trike, and replace it with Raider for all other faction. Then we have slot for something new.

22 hours ago, Fey said:

stationary Lightning Tower with a massive range

Maybe unnecessary, Rocket Turret is already too good.
Might be ok, if it's enemy-only. More if we could capture them somehow.

 

[Cm_blast]

48 minutes ago, Runtowin said:

Wait, I thought that the second version is only available for Harkonnen in multiplayer, weaker than actual one, definitely not the same as one trained with Imperial Palace.

I'll tell you exactly what happens.

Place on the editor Sardaukar for any faction: Campaign Sardaukar it's given.
Place on the editor Sardaukar for Harkonnen: Multiplayer version it's given.

So, the game just take 1 of the two Sardaukar and, since the multiplayer version it's only owner by the Harkonnen, they are given that unit. But not only that. If you place an Imperial Palace for any faction, they will produce the campaign version, but the Harkonnen will train the multiplayer one even on campaign.

This happens because the game mess up things. The requirements for the Multiplayer version ask for "only multiplayer", but with an Imperial Palace you have the requirements for the original but, since for the game only exist 1 unit called (Sardaukar) he things you should be able to produce it.

It's similar to the Combat tanks. If as Ordos you capture a Harkonnen factory you can produce missile tanks and devastators, but you factory, even if you don't have the Ordos version, still produces the Ordos combat tank because the game only have 1 unit called "tank" that it's attached to them.

48 minutes ago, Runtowin said:

Is it possible to add new infantry, like a sniper or something?
One candidate for replacement is Trike, I always think Trike and Raider are too much alike. They make no different balance-wise. We could remove Trike, and replace it with Raider for all other faction. Then we have slot for something new.

It's possible, but depends.

For example, let's say I change the "infantry" to be a "sniper" with large range and insane damage to infantry (and low ROF) so he can kill any foot unit in 1 shoot. That's possible, but the original infantry will be out.

Now let's say you want to remove the Trike and change into a sniper, so have both.

First problem it's the graphic; you cannot make both to look the same (infantry), but you could try to give him the Sardaukar graphic instead, although of course then you cannot have the original sardaukar because would be confusing knowing which one is (another option it's editing graphics so you make a totally new unit).

But the same apply to the trike icon. On the game will appear the icon and "trike" when you mouse it's over it, so you'll need to add a custom text.uib if you really want it to say "sniper" and editing the icon somehow (I have no idea).

At least I am talking about the player; to the AI doesn't really matter, he doesn't care.

It's a shame that almost everyunit on this game it's 1 big sprite; only the combat and siege tanks have 2 separated things: the body and the cannon, so you can place the cannon of one of those on top of the trike or quad. But you cannot take the top part of the missile tank and attached it into a siege body-tank because will appear the body of the missile tank too (or a quad for a missile-quad very fast, very deadly).

I already attached a cannon tank into a raider to make a "leecher", and don't look too bad, but it's AI only; I think I reused the thumper so, for the AI he it's producing "thumpers" but with other visuals and other weapons.

Thumper (the unit) and eengineer (the unit) cannot have weapons at all; they lack graphic animation to shoot so the game crash.

At the end, could be possible to edit the game much more (new graphics, new visual icon) for a new unit; requiring to overwrite a few vanilla files (the ones generated with tibed and the graphics), but maybe a stand alone dune 2000 "the true sequel" that have all the modifications already done so you only need to download the whole game, playing the campaign/s and that's it; that could be a good solution.

48 minutes ago, Runtowin said:

One candidate for replacement is Trike, I always think Trike and Raider are too much alike

Thank Westwood for not making the Raider worse than the Trike like in Dune 2 (Except on speed) :P.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Cm_blast

[Fey]

10 minutes ago, Runtowin said:

The moment I took my army out, House Ordos immediately rushed in and destroyed them, before I even scratched the base.
For the middle base, I had to use infantry path, 20 - 25 infantries each wave, a mix of Grenadier and Trooper. Of course, House Ordos still prioritize on attacking them.
Same to the left base, I had to  split my army, one for the air base, one to guard the attacking force.

Besides, only the central air base had more than one road of reasonable flank. They were close to the Unknown base, so whenever I use that road, I engaged both the Unknown and Ordos.

Sheesh. o_O I wonder what happened in your run that was so different from my run. Like, that's so weird. I guess I'll give the level another run sometime and see what's up with it.

11 minutes ago, Runtowin said:

Well, with Ordos' army everywhere, the further another road from my main base, the less chance my even reach these air base.

Do you suppose the enemy was attacking too often? Or did something malfunction in their defense areas?

12 minutes ago, Runtowin said:

I only destroyed the Control Node, even for the left air base. I stationed part of my army to guard them, but they quickly fell apart.

That's seriously weird! Like, the Ordos sends a bunch of light vehicles, occasionally a tank if you've made some progress on the map, but nothing my stationary defenses couldn't handle. Again, I'll have another look and see if something got screwed up somehow.

15 minutes ago, Runtowin said:

OK so far. Nothing hurts my eyes.

XD That unfortunately isn't too comforting. I'm glad nothing's hurting your eyes, but I'm not hearing, "This is awesome!" yet, either.

Aesthetically speaking, I hope the map's great, but obviously there are some persistent pathing issues that need to be fixed. I'll expand the map.

16 minutes ago, Runtowin said:

I meant how the mission was intended to playout. Like "Defend your base and your allies until the enemy exhaust their resources." or "Build quick, strike fast, before enemy get stronger.", etc...

Ah. Well, I'll never force the player to wait until the enemy's resources are exhausted; there are always avenues of attacks which I myself have exploited on testing runs. I hope to make maps non-linear enough that a player who wants to be aggressive, like me, can be aggressive... and a player who wants to just sit back, build up, and then strike out can do that too (though what I mean by that is, they can turtle up in their base until they want to strike out, but not have nothing be thrown at them the whole time). S13V1 has an exceptionally safe area behind the merc base, which needs to be nerfed, and one of the Ordos bases is very exposed to the central rock island, which makes for a good early-game target for an aggressive player.

S13V1 should play out where you have a couple of locations to set up at, and you need to keep your eyes on both locations (with the bottom left corner being an exception; setting up there will allow you to more quickly reinforce Durant, who should run into trouble). While helping Durant push through the unknowns first, or while attacking the Ordos before turning on the unknowns.

S13V2 is the more interesting of the two levels, I think, and has a much more clearly defined 'theme,' as you put it.

22 minutes ago, Runtowin said:

Yes, this tactic is very common in multiplayer. However, for campaign, I only use them as last resort these days.

Hmm, that's interesting. I don't really do too much multiplayer in RTS, I prefer that in other games, but that's good to know.

23 minutes ago, Runtowin said:

Wait, I thought that the second version is only available for Harkonnen in multiplayer, weaker than actual one, definitely not the same as one trained with Imperial Palace.

That's true. However, in my mod, they are the same strength to avoid confusion! The multiplayer one cannot be overwritten like the one trained with the Imperial Palace can. I don't know why exactly the MP_Sardaukar can't be overwritten while the normal Sardaukar can, but... that's just the way it works. My best guess is that it has something to do with the unit priority in the game. The Imperial Palace Sardaukar appear very high-up in the sidebar while the MP_Sardaukar appear at the very bottom. So, if the unit behavior of the MP_Sardaukar is set like another unit, it will take precedence, whereas the Imperial Palace Sardaukar do not precede other units.

However, since I may be adding new sprites anyway, it may give me the opportunity to screw with the units majorly and completely change up how things appear on the sidebar. And I would love to put the Grenadiers right under the Troopers! Among other things.

29 minutes ago, Runtowin said:

Is it possible to add new infantry, like a sniper or something?

Yep. Unit range appears to be unlimited, as the range for the new lightning turret is absolutely insane. You would need to use an existing spriteset though, and replace an existing unit. What about making Grenadiers the new main infantry and use the sprite for Light Infantry as the sniper? Just as an example.

32 minutes ago, Runtowin said:

One candidate for replacement is Trike, I always think Trike and Raider are too much alike. They make no different balance-wise. We could remove Trike, and replace it with Raider for all other faction. Then we have slot for something new.

That's true. Could also simply rename the Raider to the Trike and have it be the standard quick vehicle, or vice versa... make it only Trikes, and then you have Raiders and Stealth Raiders to replace or something. In fact, you'd be able to replace the sprites entirely in favor of a new vehicle. Cm had a new unit in his Emperor campaign called the Leecher, which was a Raider with a fixed Ordos Combat Tank cannon on top. That one looked pretty good.

You know, since the Duelist Tank is Ixian tech and the Ordos buy their stuff, that could become the Missile Tank equivalent for House Ordos at tech level 5. Make it require a Research Center, make it Ordos / smugglers only, and there you go. Then every faction could use those nice, sleek Raiders which would be re-named Trikes, and there'd be new balance and stuff all over the place. Then what? What new vehicle could be added in place of the Trike?

I sent you the three new tanks in the WIP mod adjustments via direct message. What do you think of the Duelist Tank? How would it look in the Ordos' normal arsenal?

Give me a few to get the lightning tower sprite worked up. And figure out a name for the damn thing. Then we can start thinking about bigger and better ideas!

38 minutes ago, Runtowin said:

Maybe unnecessary, Rocket Turret is already too good.
Might be ok, if it's enemy-only. More if we could capture them somehow.

Wellllll, for perspective, here's what the lightning tower's range looks like:
https://i.imgur.com/zlamRyn.png

It can strike any of those red circles. That's a 14-tile range. The top left corner is from where the projectile is fired, so I'm thinking the four-tile structure will have some capacitors or something on the side, and then the top left corner of the building will have the tower. You can see the crackle right here:
https://i.imgur.com/NjEco9J.png

And that doesn't change no matter what direction the building fires in. I'm using a Sietch as a placeholder sprite since it's a four-tile structure, so its offsets in the sprite data are appropriate. As for the weapon itself... it creates a powerful explosion on contact with a blast radius similar to a Devastator detonation, although not even half as powerful. You can see it destroy some walls here, and kill an unlucky Trooper who happened to be nearby:
https://i.imgur.com/17PyVv1.png

It's not a tremendously precise weapon, so it needs to deal damage over a wide area. It has no projectile; it will instantly strike its target no matter the distance. However, it takes a whole ten seconds in in-game time to recharge between shots, which is more than twice as long as it takes a Missile Tank to re-arm. If you scatter your units or cut its power, you can approach it. And yes, I am thinking of making it a capturable structure (along with the other turrets), although you'd need to cut the power to this beastly thing to get an Engineer close in the first place.

@Cm_blast Hey mate, I've been screwing with some unknown bytes in the structure section. I know how to change the size and concrete placement underneath, make it stop functioning when there's no power, and some other stuff now. I'm still searching to see if the building armor is actually an unknown byte. That has to be the case...

[Cm_blast]

4 minutes ago, Fey said:

Hey mate, I've been screwing with some unknown bytes in the structure section. I know how to change the size and concrete placement underneath, make it stop functioning when there's no power, and some other stuff now. I'm still searching to see if the building armor is actually an unknown byte. That has to be the case...

Good to know. My best was the reconversion from the light factory intyo a heavy factory, 10 tiles of building and everthing the same, except for 2 bytes that need to maintain the original light factory or else this factory shares the queue from the vanilla factory; I even know that some bytes control the "sparks" visual on the fact when things are builded, but I cannot remember right now what I change and what not, takes time to learn this stuff, more when everything it's "unknown something".

I think one even control the "size" of the concrete under the building, if for some luck you find "unknown byte X = 0" makes your building to not have any concrete visual at all tell me; it's something that I could use for "abandoned base" or something like that.

[Fey]

1 minute ago, Cm_blast said:

Good to know. My best was the reconversion from the light factory intyo a heavy factory, 10 tiles of building and everthing the same, except for 2 bytes that need to maintain the original light factory or else this factory shares the queue from the vanilla factory; I even know that some bytes control the "sparks" visual on the fact when things are builded, but I cannot remember right now what I change and what not, takes time to learn this stuff, more when everything it's "unknown something".

I think one even control the "size" of the concrete under the building, if for some luck you find "unknown byte X = 0" makes your building to not have any concrete visual at all tell me; it's something that I could use for "abandoned base" or something like that.

As a matter of fact, I do know those bytes! Unknown bytes 80 and 81 control the concrete underneath a building while bytes 84 and 85 seem to control the amount of space a structure takes up. Try setting bytes 80 and 81 to 0 on a structure's unknown tab in tibed.

Note that this changes every structure of the sort, so if you want that abandoned Atreides light factory or something to be sitting in the middle of nowhere, make sure you replace a structure like the smuggler Starport or one of the special Outposts.

You wouldn't happen to know how to move the fire around on a damaged structure, would you? Once I get the sprites drawn up for the lightning tower, that's the next step.

[Cm_blast]

2 minutes ago, Fey said:

As a matter of fact, I do know those bytes! Unknown bytes 80 and 81 control the concrete underneath a building while bytes 84 and 85 seem to control the amount of space a structure takes up. Try setting bytes 80 and 81 to 0 on a structure's unknown tab in tibed.

Note that this changes every structure of the sort, so if you want that abandoned Atreides light factory or something to be sitting in the middle of nowhere, make sure you replace a structure like the smuggler Starport or one of the special Outposts.

You wouldn't happen to know how to move the fire around on a damaged structure, would you? Once I get the sprites drawn up for the lightning tower, that's the next step.

Neat. Have that info well covered, if at some point you manage to discover everything else (or most of it) you can do a small manual to let us know what everything do everything.

Yeah, I know. It's not like I already have an idea or planned to do on my next work, it's more a "if can be done, tell me, maybe I use that info... or not".

No idea about the fires. you are already really far; I only entered in tibed things to be able to make an Emperor playable campaign that didn't crash the game; although when I learn some stuff from it an Ixian campaign with no Tibed it's not even possible and, on my way; I try to add something more than just "now you can deploy the CY" because that seems lazy but forcing people to overwrite stuff just because of that.

But changing graphics or the position of the fires, no idea.

[Fey]

2 minutes ago, Cm_blast said:

Neat. Have that info well covered, if at some point you manage to discover everything else (or most of it) you can do a small manual to let us know what everything do everything.

Yeah, I know. It's not like I already have an idea or planned to do on my next work, it's more a "if can be done, tell me, maybe I use that info... or not".

No idea about the fires. you are already really far; I only entered in tibed things to be able to make an Emperor playable campaign that didn't crash the game; although when I learn some stuff from it an Ixian campaign with no Tibed it's not even possible and, on my way; I try to add something more than just "now you can deploy the CY" because that seems lazy but forcing people to overwrite stuff just because of that.

But changing graphics or the position of the fires, no idea.

We can add the concrete / size bytes to the picture, at least. Although it still needs to be researched how, exactly, the size parameter in art settings interact with said bytes. Maybe 84 / 85 have something to do with selection in-game.

It's probably another one of the unknown bytes. I'll see what I can come up with.

[Runtowin]

8 hours ago, Fey said:

Wellllll, for perspective, here's what the lightning tower's range looks like:
https://i.imgur.com/zlamRyn.png

It can strike any of those red circles. That's a 14-tile range. The top left corner is from where the projectile is fired, so I'm thinking the four-tile structure will have some capacitors or something on the side, and then the top left corner of the building will have the tower. You can see the crackle right here:
https://i.imgur.com/NjEco9J.png

And that doesn't change no matter what direction the building fires in. I'm using a Sietch as a placeholder sprite since it's a four-tile structure, so its offsets in the sprite data are appropriate. As for the weapon itself... it creates a powerful explosion on contact with a blast radius similar to a Devastator detonation, although not even half as powerful. You can see it destroy some walls here, and kill an unlucky Trooper who happened to be nearby:
https://i.imgur.com/17PyVv1.png

Cool, I can see how it hit my base from their base for some map already. I think its range need to be tone down a bit, and it needs a clear role. I worry that defending might become too easy with this boy.
Do you think Raider can outrun it?

8 hours ago, Fey said:

Do you suppose the enemy was attacking too often? Or did something malfunction in their defense areas?

Yeah, I have roughly 30sec - 1min break for attacking between enemy wave.

 

8 hours ago, Fey said:

Yep. Unit range appears to be unlimited, as the range for the new lightning turret is absolutely insane. You would need to use an existing spriteset though, and replace an existing unit. What about making Grenadiers the new main infantry and use the sprite for Light Infantry as the sniper? Just as an example.

I see. Well, light infantry is kinda useless lategame. But they will come out of building when we destroy them, so we can't mess much with them.

 

8 hours ago, Fey said:

XD That unfortunately isn't too comforting. I'm glad nothing's hurting your eyes, but I'm not hearing, "This is awesome!" yet, either.

Don't worry, I mostly reserve that praise for true eye candy. It's hard to create one though, this is supposed to be a harsh dessert.

 

8 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

At the end, could be possible to edit the game much more (new graphics, new visual icon) for a new unit; requiring to overwrite a few vanilla files (the ones generated with tibed and the graphics), but maybe a stand alone dune 2000 "the true sequel" that have all the modifications already done so you only need to download the whole game, playing the campaign/s and that's it; that could be a good solution.

I saw a few project here that did just that, but they were all abandoned AFAIK, except the openRA one. And EA lost this game's source code. Too bad.

[Fey]

1 minute ago, Runtowin said:

Cool, I can see how it hit my base from their base for some map already. I think its range need to be tone down a bit, and it needs a clear role. I worry that defending might become too easy with this boy.
Do you think Raider can outrun it?

It definitely won't be attacking the player's base. XD It's far too destructive. I think it may be used to cover a pathway from a cliffside, or defend a central region... it's basically a "boss" turret. And not even a Raider can outrun it - its shots are instant. Unfortunately, I can't tone down its attack rate either, since the ROF entry has a maximum time of 255... but, I know not to abuse turrets. My placement of turrets is reasoned. This one won't appear in any old base just supporting the other turrets. It'll be special.

I had this one abstract map idea where you need to escort a bunch of Grenadiers around a super-turret, knocking out its power and moving within its line of fire until the AI re-builds it to eventually get to it and capture or destroy it, but it was only an idea. It's possible to do crazy stuff with this kind of turret for sure.

6 minutes ago, Runtowin said:

Yeah, I have roughly 30sec - 1min break for attacking between enemy wave.

Ah, crap. XD Okay, I'll see what went wrong with the attack rate.

6 minutes ago, Runtowin said:

I see. Well, light infantry is kinda useless lategame. But they will come out of building when we destroy them, so we can't mess much with them.

True... not unless you do some editing, at least.

7 minutes ago, Runtowin said:

Don't worry, I mostly reserve that praise for true eye candy. It's hard to create one though, this is supposed to be a harsh dessert.

Good point. Maybe someday I'll earn that praise! Speaking of which... I've been playing around with the tank sprites, adding more color and thinking up a tooltip for the Duelist Tank. Check this out:
Combat Tank stripes: https://prnt.sc/l3czpb
Duelist Tank sidebar: https://prnt.sc/l3d672

With more color on the Combat Tanks, I can overwrite two of the bodies, maybe come up with a brand new spriteset for the Lightning Tank or RPG Quad... and the color will help to distinguish between your tanks and your enemies' tanks. The hybrid sprite for the Combat Tanks will have dark treads (like the Atreides CT), short treads (like the Harkonnen CT), and sprites up the sides. The Duelist Tank is a combination of Siege Tank body and medium Combat Tank barrel, so I mashed the two together in a tooltip and did a little touch-up work. How's that icon look?

I'm thinking of letting the Duelist Tank be the tech 5 unit for the Ordos and smugglers, in place of the Missile Tank. Since it's canonically Ixian tech and the Ordos and smugglers buy stuff, it'd work out - the mercs get the Missile Tank and heavy Combat Tank while the Ordos and smugglers get light Combat Tanks with Duelist Tanks as a damage soaker. Again, just an idea at the moment.

[Cm_blast]

12 minutes ago, Runtowin said:

I saw a few project here that did just that, but they were all abandoned AFAIK, except the openRA one. And EA lost this game's source code. Too bad.

I was thinking on grabbing Dune 2000 (gruntmod, for example) with the new units done in tibed, new graphics, etc, packing all together and saying "my new campaign mod" but, instead a pack of files which some needs to be copied, other to overwrite, changing the original game forever unless a reinstall-back up it's done first (which not all people do), etc and etc... you give the players a portable version with a "good name" just to show how your mod have new stuff that don'ta ppear on the original game or something like that.

In short: instead 9.map, 9.ini, 5.bin 1.r16... just 1 dune 2000 full portable playable with plenty of new stuff (much like now you can choose to stick with the vanilla dune 2000 or go with gruntmods, even if tecnically it's the same exact game).

Just a quick reminder, Luminar's, in his early days already did a "night mission" on his Fremen campaign, which impressed me when I played it; a shame that all those moders are not present now that the current tools allow us to do things more faster and easy than ever.

[Nuclear_harvester]

adding new units or buldings to dune2k is  not possible.  you can probably via  tibed add something but it does not show up in game,tried copy  wind trap to make next one but didnt work

[Cm_blast]

2 hours ago, Nuclear_harvester said:

adding new units or buldings to dune2k is  not possible.  you can probably via  tibed add something but it does not show up in game,tried copy  wind trap to make next one but didnt work

Tecnically you do, if you overwrite an older thing. I can pick up the grenadier slot. Add there a Raider wearing a combat tank cannon and that's it, a totally new unit (but removing grenadier from the game).

On the game still appears the grenadier icon and if you place you mouse over it still show "Grenadier", but yeah; you cannot add any new unit or building withouth removing something else first.

[Fey]

4 hours ago, Nuclear_harvester said:

adding new units or buldings to dune2k is  not possible.  you can probably via  tibed add something but it does not show up in game,tried copy  wind trap to make next one but didnt work

Aye, I did what Cm is talking about. I overwrote the non-hardcoded Carryall for the RPG Quad, I overwrote one of the Sardaukar for the Lightning Tank, I overwrote the Thumper for the Duelist Tank, and I overwrote the Atreides High Tech Factory for the as-of-yet unnamed plasma/lightning-based megaturret, the new sprite for which can be seen in two in-game screenshots here (spoiler alert, obviously):
https://i.imgur.com/Lxlqpj3.png
https://prnt.sc/l4043n

Details below:

Spoiler

The as of yet unnamed megaturret is a powerful tower with attached plasma banks. Atop the tower are several conduits from which its attack is projected, potentially across massive distance. Unlike the light, fast Lightning Tank, this megaturret will expend incredible power all at once, then take up to ten seconds to recharge. Its attack becomes inaccurate at longer range due to the nature of lightning, but it will devastate units within the blast radius.

How does the tower look? I was thinking of removing the two rear conduits and putting one in the middle, making it a three-pronged tower. Might look less awkward, too. I ain't no sprite artist, but hopefully by mishmashing existing structures' sprites in D2k together, it don't look too out of place.

Edit: I added a second screenshot with three prongs. Still working on the shadows...

Everything in the mod currently here still works as intended, but now there are new units around. The only problem I've run into so far is that the RPG Quad can't be built in a factory. That's probably because it shares behavior with the other Carryall by necessity due to the way overwriting units works. It can still be dropped in-game via reinforcements, but that's inconvenient. I think since I'm editing sprites and text as well, though, that that can actually be fixed. If I make good progress on that, I'll be certain to report it here!

Edited October 9, 2018 by Fey

[Fey]

Three new levels are out! Along with some pretty hefty changes to the mod. Here are the details:

Spoiler

INFANTRY:
 - Most units that previously performed poorly against infantry may now perform slightly better.
 - For any Atreides factions, Fremen Warriors can be trained at Advanced II tech with a High Tech Factory and Barracks.
 - Sardaukar Elites may now only be trained by the Imperial faction.
 - Troopers can now match the range of Quads, Trikes, and Raiders.
 - Grenadiers can now match the range of Combat Tanks.

VEHICLES:
 - All units' firing ranges are now rounded out.
 - New unit added! The RPG Quad is a new light vehicle used exclusively in early tech levels which combines the functions of the Grenadiers and the standard Quad.
 - New unit added! The Shock Raider is a new light vehicle that will make its first appearance in the campaign on S13. They will appear first in S15 until S13 is updated.
 - New unit added! The Duelist Tank is a new heavy vehicle used by the Ordos and smugglers in place of the Missile Tank.
 - Quads are less likely to blow themselves up.

STRUCTURES:
 - All structure armor has been normalized as Building armor. Turrets of any sort are the only notable exception, as they have Light armor.
 - New structure added! The Storm Lasher is a new defense structure that will make its first appearance in the campaign on S15.
 - Color correction has been performed on the mercenary Heavy Factory and Golden Lion Throne sprites.
 - Imperials have a new graphic for their Construction Yard.
 - Imperials now have their own Barracks.

NEW INTEL ENTRIES:
RPG Quad:
     RPG Quads are excellent scouts with a massive sight radius for such a quick unit. They're equipped with both an RPG launcher and anti-armor rockets. Despite their versatility, Grenadiers make smaller targets when mingling among standard Quads and Combat Tanks while standard Quads' dedicated rocket systems are more efficient than RPG Quads'. Therefore, the RPG Quad is an uncommon hybrid seen only in the early stages of conflict, if at all.

Duelist Tank:
     Weapons of Ixian design used primarily by the Ordos and smugglers. Duelist Tanks are versatile armored units meant to draw fire to cover other units. Although the Duelist Tank is good against any one unit with few exceptions, true to its name, it performs poorly against quick or long-ranged enemy targets. A pair of Quads can catch and destroy Duelist Tanks with ease. And, unlike Combat Tanks, Duelist Tanks cannot out-range Troopers with their cannons.

Shock Raider:
     Raiders outfitted with portable weaponry based on the Storm Lasher. Rather than discharge enormous amounts of energy into slow, destructive attacks, the Shock Raider is a fast light vehicle with precise attacks. Although effective against almost all targets, Shock Raiders themselves are no tougher than standard Raiders, and have an even shorter range. Storm Lashers and Shock Raiders are less effective against each-other than against any other unit or structure.

Storm Lasher:
     The most advanced stationary defense structure. Its capacitors keep a fully-charged shot ready to instantly strike targets at twice the range of Rocket Turrets with enough power to destroy weak units in one attack. Its only fault is its rate of fire. And, it predictably re-acquires targets nearer to it once its first target has moved out of range or been destroyed. Like other turrets, the Storm Lasher requires power to function.

Levels S10 through S13 are not updated to be compatible with the changes.

The new maps were all beaten in under half an hour, real-time, at fastest in-game speed, on normal difficulty. S14V1 was completed the fastest, in just over 20 minutes real-time. Like the other maps in this campaign so far, they're all fairly large maps, though not necessarily dense with bases. Details are below the spoilers. Hey Runtowin, hopefully the Harvester reinforcement is made less annoying with the new implementation of the "defeated" victory condition. When the enemy base is destroyed, the message will say "The enemy has been defeated." rather than 'annihilated.' No need to hunt down all the units anymore! Let me know how that is in comparison to the old system.

S14V1: Baklawa Brawl

Spoiler

Full map image: https://i.imgur.com/olhwvg2.jpg
Strategy:
I'm just going to preface this strategy section with this screenshot: https://prnt.sc/ladjyy

Yeahhh.

The Ordos will contact you only a few seconds into the map and become your ally. The initial merc forces will go have a look around for you, so join them if you'd like, but don't stick around when they start getting stomped. You should scout the terrain early by sending Light Infantry to the other side of the map. That way, you'll be able to see your enemies' tanks coming ahead of time, which will be very helpful in positioning your forces appropriately as they send quite a lot of them.

Head to YouTube and load up that Dune 2 soundtrack, because this map is entirely flat. Your only terrain defenses are infantry rock and impassable debris. Gun Turrets and Concrete Walls are recommended to assist defense forces on this map. You'll want to support those Gun Turrets with Troopers and Combat Tanks. The enemy will also make use of Sardaukar Gholas, so make sure you have a few Grenadiers to take them down. There are lots of rock islands around to expand to as well, which is also recommended for the sake of Spice harvesting, proxy factories, and forward defense perimeters. Your starting island is fairly small, but there are two good locations in the top right and bottom right where you can get more Spice and build more factories.

Although your mercenary and Ordos allies can handle themselves very well, you should assist their defense forces with your own. The better KDA you rack up, the stronger your attacks against the enemy will be. And your attacks need to be quite strong to pierce the enemy defenses. Your enemy is just as disadvantaged as you are in terms of terrain benefits, so bring your Grenadiers with you to blow through the Concrete Walls around their bases. And there's no harm in taking some Quads around the map in the early game to pick off enemy Harvesters, if possible. Or, better yet, try and pick off a structure. The Refineries at the top left base are fairly exposed.

On any of my test runs on this map, Quads consistently performed very well. Your heavy Combat Tanks are fantastic for soaking damage, but they don't dish it out like the old light Combat Tanks Summers used to use. In order to maximize your damage each time you hit the enemy, try to be ready to attack alongside your ally and don't be afraid to stick around even after they're gone if you can deal some real damage. Use your Combat Tanks to soak fire for light vehicles and infantry, rush important structures with Quads, and have Troopers hanging around to garrison the rocks and provide additional support. I also kept an MCV in the party in the later game just to set it up in an enemy base. Put up some turrets, a Barracks, and then you can tidy up out there faster.

To stop the flow of Sardaukar Ghola reinforcements, destroy either the High Tech Factories in the main Tleilaxu bases, or take out the Outpost in the smaller Tleilaxu expansion.

S14V2: Cliffhanger

Spoiler

Full map image: https://i.imgur.com/AuFzR2s.jpg
Strategy:
Be ready for the enemy Grenadiers that will fly in behind you shortly after the map begins. Your Sonic Tank can take them out easily if it's in position.

Stay behind Durant's Devastators until they're engaged, then swarm the enemies with your Quads. When the Sietch comes into view, use your Grenadiers on the Fremen Gholas and your Quads on the Combat Tanks and Gun Turrets. You don't need to keep your Sonic Tank alive, but it'll help since the enemy sends quite a lot of infantry at you.

I recommend getting a Barracks and Outpost up quickly. You'll need Combat Tanks to deal with the enemy vehicles and cover the infantry, but only a few. Your Troopers and Grenadiers in the right position should be able to handle the early enemy attacks mostly on their own. There isn't very much Spice at your starting location, but there's a nice spot behind Durant's base you could expand to. Carryalls are another alternative.

When you're ready to attack, the central Tleilaxu base falls between you, the mercs, and the Ordos, so it's a great target to attack first. They will receive help from the other bases, so try and pull back to recuperate before you lose too many units. Once that base goes down, the others are on their own, so go beat them up and you're done. The Tleilaxu are more aggressive attackers on this map, so they won't have quite the force prepared to defend or attack with like on S14V1. However, you can expect to be attacked more often.

The only way to stop the flow of Fremen Ghola reinforcements is to destroy each Sietch. One Fremen Ghola will spawn from each active Sietch every minute they're intact.

S15V1: Power Play

Spoiler

Full map image: https://i.imgur.com/3z9Dxzk.jpg
Strategy:
If you want to save your starting Troopers, select one and send it north and send the other two south immediately after you start. One will die, the other two will live.

Take note of the infantry rock on the terrain. When around Storm Lashers, it may be used to hint at where the end of the safe-zone is.

This level introduces a boss turret, first by itself, and then en masse in the enemy base. Don't be afraid, you'll learn how to deal with it at the very start of the map! To beat the first section, simply follow Summers' instructions. Have your Light Infantry take point so your Grenadiers stay healthy. Bomb each Wind Trap on the cliff wall, then hustle to the next one before your enemy can re-route their power. You may take a few hits from the enemy Grenadiers on the cliff, but you can safely ignore them. When you receive your reinforcements, it's safe to get up close. Go secure the tower!

You and Durant will get your MCVs. Now is a good time to save your game since you'll be dealing with some new units and may need to attempt a couple of times to know how to deal with them. The enemy AI, aside from its new tech, is not particularly dangerous. So, build your base, fight within the friendly Storm Lasher's attack radius if possible, and try not to be near the enemy units when they get blasted. If you build west of the Storm Lasher's Wind Traps, erect some Gun Turrets and scatter Troopers on the infantry rock. Scattered infantry are very effective against all the Shock Raiders they'll send at you.

Due to the winding terrain, you may want to either expand or make use of Carryalls so your economy doesn't stagnate.

When you're ready to strike out, you'll find that there are a couple of Starports in the top right corner which you might want to take out first. If not, I tested this map without destroying the Starports first and it went a-okay. Remember to capture at least one of them - it's a mission objective!

Tactical analysis of the enemy base: https://prnt.sc/la7hmu
Bright blue squares: Storm Lashers! Danger!
Bright yellow squares: Production structures.
Bright green squares: Power clusters.
Solid dark blue squares: While Storm Lashers are active, rush fodder to these tiles to cause massive damage to nearby structures and fortifications.

The main enemy base has three Storm Lashers spread around it. I don't recommend trying to knock out the power first since the enemy has a good deal of excess power. Instead, just follow these tips and you should be able to take down those Storm Lashers without too much of a problem:
1. Keep one unit ahead of the rest at all times. Storm Lashers will re-acquire on the nearest target! Your Combat Tanks can absorb 2-3 shots from a Storm Lasher before getting destroyed, giving you 20-30 in-game seconds to fight your way closer to the thing so you can finally take it out. Unguarded Storm Lashers can be taken out by a few Quads and Troopers very easily.
2. Handle enemy forces before engaging a Storm Lasher. Infantry rock and cliff walls are all over the place and your Combat Tanks can block enemy units from moving up and crushing your Troopers and Grenadiers. Set up a firing line and destroy as many enemy defense forces as you can draw out before trying to push into the blast range of a Storm Lasher.
3. Abuse the Storm Lasher's destructive power. The units you send closer to a Storm Lasher to act as fodder can simultaneously cause massive damage to the enemy base if you position them next to factories, Wind Traps, Refineries, or any other promising target. Why blow up the walls around the enemy base yourself when you can just ask them to unlock the door?

Download link:
WIPSC2_14v1-14v2-15.zip

Folders are now sorted in the zip along with an included backup. This should simplify the process of installing and uninstalling the mod. Have fun, and don't forget to send feedback in this thread! I will always use feedback to improve the maps before the final release.

[Fey]

No further update to this campaign yet, but I did a little screwing around with tilesets and came up with a working grassy tileset.

What do I mean by "working"?
1) The tileset data overwrites nothing.
2) Rock craters appear on orange Base Platform only.
3) Resource harvesting is achieved through nodes.
4) Sand craters don't appear on the grass.

This tileset being compatible with normal craters allows for Caladan maps or something to be included among other missions in a campaign without breaking the data.r16 file. Or any file, for that matter! The Base Platform only fits on the grass, but if I were to move the borders up to the edge, it could be placed over water as well and look good. That's just a thought though.

I have a Gimp2 file saved with all the layers and stuff. I can upload it if it's requested by someone else who wants to edit the tileset image.

Crater data can be edited through one of the .r16 files and structures can be modified to not screw with the tiles underneath them, but that requires tibed, resource editing, spritework, and other stuff that's kind of inconvenient for most modders. This is a simple, practical solution.

Here are map details and a download link for a tileset demonstration map:

Spoiler

Full map image: https://i.imgur.com/923NYQO.jpg
Strategy:
This is a very simple map. Head straight up to the Base Platform in the top left corner and start building up.

You'll get reinforcements as you build new factories. Building an Outpost will reveal the enemy base and all Mass Deposits.

Harvesters return only 350 credits, not 700, so Light Infantry spam is recommended. You can garrison Mass Deposits with infantry to annoy enemy Harvesters or defend your own more easily. The enemy Harvesters will only use the southern Mass Deposits, so try setting up some Troopers, and Trikes on Guard mode, out there. The best place to attack the enemy base from is the north since the choke point near the Refinery is tough to penetrate.

Good luck and have fun!

ADDITIONAL INTEL:
Base Platform:
     Construction Yards root themselves deep in the rock of Arrakis and pull raw materials from the ground to provide for base structures. Standard buildings cannot normally be relied upon on Caladan's own soil, but certain areas have been laden with Base Platform, which simulates the various elements of Arrakis and allows for base construction.

Mass Deposit:
     The Spice Melange is the most valuable substance in the universe. However, it exists only on the planet Arrakis. Across Caladan are Mass Deposits - towering storehouses containing useful materials. You may fund your war effort only by withdrawing Mass from these structures.

Download link: FEYCALDN.zip

The player is Atreides. The zip contains a README that can tell you how to edit with this spriteset in the D2k map / mission editor by Klofkac.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Fey

[Cm_blast]

Finally I tried all this thing; I must say that the lights looks much better in game that in the screenshots.

Takes a bit of time getting used to the sudden slow movement when going into the borders, but all looks really good with the crates fitting the building platform and no other crates out of place.

And definitivamente those mass deposits looks much better than I expected; If this was a bigger tech map I would need to reach a second deposit because with the first you barely can get enough money to keep the production; and of course, more harvesters won't help since they may push each other, although on this distance at least 3 or 4 harvesters won't have too much trouble going to the same "harvesting" area.

However; there is a bit of a problem I encounter; May I ask if you can give the "TILEATR8.bin" another name? This is because already exist tileatr8.bin and tileatr9.bin.

Those two are used by the Dato's tilesets done on the RA games with the own tileatr. His tilesets the "8" one it's making all the dunes on the top rows to be a buildable area, while the other have plenty of unwalkable tiles on those top rows (rifts on the tilesets).

So I would suggest to rename it to another name; 10.bin could fit, but who knows if in the future somebody creates a new tileatr too and name it 10 for the same reason you give it here an "8".

And since even the Dato's pack includes the .ini to be moved into the editor with references to both the images and those two specific tileatr would be best to let him be the owner of those specific numbers.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Cm_blast

[Fey]

5 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

Finally I tried all this thing; I must say that the lights looks much better in game that in the screenshots.

Takes a bit of time getting used to the sudden slow movement when going into the borders, but all looks really good with the crates fitting the building platform and no other crates out of place.

And definitivamente those mass deposits looks much better than I expected; If this was a bigger tech map I would need to reach a second deposit because with the first you barely can get enough money to keep the production; and of course, more harvesters won't help since they may push each other, although on this distance at least 3 or 4 harvesters won't have too much trouble going to the same "harvesting" area.

Awesome! Glad it looks good, I ain't no artist. lol

The slow movement can be removed, or at least reduced. Is it a problem, you think? Since it's not rock, it's a sort of platform, I was thinking units would go slower when moving across the border, but that also makes them move slowly while on the border. Other "dunes" type areas that slow movement are on, like... river-sides, on the areas between the grass and the water in general. The beach.

I didn't know the Harvesters would push themselves around, but you could always add multiple Mass Deposit pads around a single building. I just arranged them in 6x4 or vice versa tiles for this demonstration. They could even be placed atop Base Platforms and look good! How do you like the infantry-only tiles built into the Mass Deposits?

6 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

However; there is a bit of a problem I encounter; May I ask if you can give the "TILEATR8.bin" another name? This is because already exist tileatr8.bin and tileatr9.bin.

Those two are used by the Dato's tilesets done on the RA games with the own tileatr. His tilesets the "8" one it's making all the dunes on the top rows to be a buildable area, while the other have plenty of unwalkable tiles on those top rows (rifts on the tilesets).

So I would suggest to rename it to another name; 10.bin could fit, but who knows if in the future somebody creates a new tileatr too and name it 10 for the same reason you give it here an "8".

And since even the Dato's pack includes the .ini to be moved into the editor with references to both the images and those two specific tileatr would be best to let him be the owner of those specific numbers.

Oh, I didn't know that! Sure, I'll change the tileatr as soon as I can. You can still use the tileatr to map and stuff in the meantime, all it would take is a change in the tilesets.ini in the editor to include the new tileatr.

Hey, didja give S14 through S15 a try? Haven't gotten any feedback on those maps yet, but they're in the post preceding the grassy tileset post. I'm especially interested in feedback for S15 since it uses the new turrets and stuff.

[Cm_blast]

3 hours ago, Fey said:

The slow movement can be removed, or at least reduced. Is it a problem, you think? Since it's not rock, it's a sort of platform, I was thinking units would go slower when moving across the border, but that also makes them move slowly while on the border. Other "dunes" type areas that slow movement are on, like... river-sides, on the areas between the grass and the water in general. The beach.

I'ts fine, just feels a bit weird because usually "staying in the inner base" don't slow your units, but you can use that on your favor; for example placing walls (in a higher tech) and taking advantage of a bit of choke (since this terrain it's more open) and the small slow part to defeat the enemy attack.

3 hours ago, Fey said:

I didn't know the Harvesters would push themselves around, but you could always add multiple Mass Deposit pads around a single building. I just arranged them in 6x4 or vice versa tiles for this demonstration. They could even be placed atop Base Platforms and look good! How do you like the infantry-only tiles built into the Mass Deposits?

Yes, the first time they went (since 2 are delivered) the first one pick up 2-3 blobs and the second harv push the first to get that.

I had a map that make use of single tiles of infinite spice and you can't have more than 2 because otherwise they keep pushing each other and stop doing his job.

For this theme it's fine, so players can't just focusing on a single deposit and force them to go in another.

3 hours ago, Fey said:

Hey, didja give S14 through S15 a try? Haven't gotten any feedback on those maps yet, but they're in the post preceding the grassy tileset post. I'm especially interested in feedback for S15 since it uses the new turrets and stuff.

Not yet; I am doing a final re-run of my last capaigm with a few fixes here and there, but I am already near the end so next I will try your new stuff.

[Fey]

39 minutes ago, Cm_blast said:

I'ts fine, just feels a bit weird because usually "staying in the inner base" don't slow your units, but you can use that on your favor; for example placing walls (in a higher tech) and taking advantage of a bit of choke (since this terrain it's more open) and the small slow part to defeat the enemy attack.

A good idea. Hey, the tileset is available for anyone to use, so I do hope folks enjoy it.

Do a Harkonnen campaign and have the final map or two on the Atreides homeworld or something. I still remember the Atreides homeworld map from Emperor, you start on like the bottom corner and then there's a lot of water, and then the Atreides base is on this peninsula or something. Right? Maybe could re-create that now. Just need an icy tileset for Draconis IV and an industrial tileset for Giedi Prime... or, perhaps, for a Heighliner map...

39 minutes ago, Cm_blast said:

Yes, the first time they went (since 2 are delivered) the first one pick up 2-3 blobs and the second harv push the first to get that.

I had a map that make use of single tiles of infinite spice and you can't have more than 2 because otherwise they keep pushing each other and stop doing his job.

For this theme it's fine, so players can't just focusing on a single deposit and force them to go in another.

I mean, like, I didn't know before I implemented the idea, but I knew before releasing it since I tested it.

You're talking about the Gom Jabbar map, right? I remember that!

The Mass Deposit idea was just an example. The deposits could also contain stored Spice or something, so it could still give 700 credits per return, but for this map I wanted to give more of an idea of what one could do with the tileset. 350 per is a serious nerf unless the Mass Deposits are placed on Base Platform, meaning you could drop a Refinery literally right next to the Mass Deposit. Which would be nice! Harvester goes on the pad, harvests, and then goes back.

39 minutes ago, Cm_blast said:

Not yet; I am doing a final re-run of my last capaigm with a few fixes here and there, but I am already near the end so next I will try your new stuff.

Oh, alright. I'm very eager to hear back from you on that, at your earliest convenience! S15 played very well for me on my testing runs, so I'm excited to hear about what other folks get out of the map. S14V1 / V2 went nicely too, but they're very standard maps. As fun as massive tank battles are on S14V1, S15 takes the cake out of this update simply for the new concept and stuff.

Since infantry in general have a higher range in the mod now, I'd love to hear how your use of infantry and infantry rock plays out, too. Troopers on infantry rock are nice and effective against any light vehicles now, and Grenadiers will always sit behind Quads. Even Light Infantry are more effective against vehicles and especially structures since all the building armor is normalized now.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Fey