[Release] Ordos Campaign Alternative Missions

[Domaithianus]

On 9/12/2017 at 9:56 PM, Cm_blast said:

Edit:

Played missions 4 and 5. They are good.
But maybe you didn't know that the in mission 5 the mercenary side train a eengineer. the AI don't send him to capture anything, but he it is.

 

Oh, hey, I didn't notice those edits, I had notifications on for replies on this post, but they didn't come up, so I didn't realise you'd replied.  Sorry about that.
I hadn't noticed that with the merc AI, thanks for the heads-up.  They'll now start with one light infantry, and one trooper.  Hopefully that'll do it.
 

 

On 9/12/2017 at 9:56 PM, Cm_blast said:

Played missions 6 and 7:
Now it is hard. I had lots of trouble because I through the enemies will attack the starport sooner or later, but that didn't happen until the very end. But of course, I didn't know that and didn't wanted to move those initial units to avoid loosing the building.

Haha, that'll be my loyalty to the original there.  You expect the Starport to be attacked, until consistent attacks on the main base lul you into a false sense of security.  Then, right at the end, when the player might have moved their defences, they come gunning for it.  V4, the Starport will be attacked more regularly.

 

 

On 9/12/2017 at 9:56 PM, Cm_blast said:

Mission 7 was really hard. They are coming for multiple areas and I was loosing harverster but I didn't even know when. I was "wait, I had 2 harverster there, where is the other?" and 2 minutes later "come on! I loose both?"

They were using a strong attacks or something. Not "harverster under attack" or sandworm attack voice line, so there were killing the harverster real fast between my "training" "unit ready".

The only reason I manage to survive was because a group of imperials were attacking my harverster at the left zone of the closest mine field. I retreated the harverster into my ally base; they protect it and start to march against other closest enemies, so they fought other units coming my way and even protect the harversters I had in the right zone.

Ps: The Atreides are trolls. They send the airstrike 3 squares up of my small groups of units, destroying sardaukar for me, that was hilarious xD.

The original mission 7 was one of my favourite missions in the campaign.  My only complaint about it had been that it was too easy, and thus, over too fast, so when I remade it, my main focus was bulking up the enemy.

 

I should have an update on the way in the next day or so, including a bonus mission, set between missions 6 and 7, based on the Ordos having received their Deviators, but not having learned to build them for themselves yet.

[Cm_blast]

5 hours ago, Domaithianus said:

Oh, hey, I didn't notice those edits, I had notifications on for replies on this post, but they didn't come up, so I didn't realise you'd replied.  Sorry about that.

I didn't want to create triple post, so I edited. I was about to do a new post after ending the campaign, which I am already halfway mission 9.

5 hours ago, Domaithianus said:

Haha, that'll be my loyalty to the original there.  You expect the Starport to be attacked, until consistent attacks on the main base lul you into a false sense of security.  Then, right at the end, when the player might have moved their defences, they come gunning for it.  V4, the Starport will be attacked more regularly.

I needed to reload the save because of that. I knew enemies will come against me at the end, but I saved like 3-4 minutes or so before times run out, just in case. So I reloaded, defended and profit.

Mission 8. all those infantry-like units from imperials was hard to stop sometimes. I ended using a few harverster to crush, until I got the siege tanks to stop them.

I don't know if was on purpose, but I didn't notice the Fremen until I saw them fighting the mercs.

And mission 9 it's fine. Hilarious seeing so many attacks against the mercs that I didn't even care XD. He lost the rocket turrets in the corner, but those were too easy to destroy so I decided to just give up those and focus in the others better.

Oh, there is a problem in naming the final mission:
Ordos - Mission 9v3
Ordos Mission 9v4

So they don't match in the mission launcher.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Cm_blast

[Domaithianus]

6 hours ago, Cm_blast said:

Oh, there is a problem in naming the final mission:

Ordos - Mission 9v3
Ordos Mission 9v4

So they don't match in the mission launcher.

Oh yeah, I noticed that before, then forgot to fix it.  Thanks for pointing it out, it's now in the new update, which is ready here:

OrdosCampaign200.7z

This also contains the bonus mission 'How to Build a Deviator' as well as all missions (including the bonus one) playable as allied sub-houses.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Domaithianus

[Cm_blast]

9 hours ago, Domaithianus said:

Oh yeah, I noticed that before, then forgot to fix it.  Thanks for pointing it out, it's now in the new update, which is ready here:

OrdosCampaign200.7z

This also contains the bonus mission 'How to Build a Deviator' as well as all missions (including the bonus one) playable as allied sub-houses.

Now in the Mercenary sub-section the mission 9 have the same problem xD.
Ordos - Mission 9v3
Ordos Mission 9v4

The playable as sub-houses are exactly the same or has some kind of help for the player? (since the AI is not a great player).

I see you let the AI building engineers. Maybe you should remove that, or else the maps are going to be nearly impossible. They are already hard with all the enemy waves, and having an AI that waste 500 credits on engineers don't help at all =(.

[Dark Wesker]

Now I'm playing your versions (Alternative missions). It seems interesting.

01V3 - The enemy forces are not high and you have too many units. This mission is boring as in the original.
02V3 - It's too easy and it's nothing special.
03V3 - Already something interesting. The mission is good, but I defeated the enemy easily.
04V3 - Something else and I liked it. More enemies and more complexity. But the mission itself was not hard.
04V4 - The same but also very interesting. Good job.
05V2 - Looks like original, just more space and more difficulty. I am glad that the enemies are strong. I mean the enemy has a missile tanks. It's just great. The mission is not hard.
05V3 - I thought I will have a lot of difficulties. But it was not. In the beginning it was complicated but then easy.
06V3 - There is something serious here. I had to really concentrate on this mission. This time it was not easy. But I liked it. Good job;)
O6V4 - This version is easy. But also interesting.
Bonus Mission - For fun this mission. I enjoyed to play.
O7V2 and O7V3 - These versions are very complicated.  Somehow I survived. But I liked it.  Easy to defeat enemies. Only the beginning is hard.
O8V2 and O8V3 - A bit easier. Also easy to beat enemies.
O9V3 - Now there is something good. Enemies are not easy. I like when the enemies is not easy to defeat. Well done
O9V4 - I completed all your missions/versions. I enjoyed the final missions;)

Really good missions.:) I recommend to create for others houses.

The sub-houses missions is really bad for AI. I did not try to play but played the dato. Too much Hard. AI must have a full base as enemies. You should change that, otherwise play is meaningless.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Dark Wesker

[Fey]

Hey @Domaithianus! We haven't heard from you in a while, so I hope everything's okay. I've had more time to play, so here's what I found on the remaining maps.

Spoiler

O6V3: This was a good mission to come back to. I'm very rusty, but I beat it just fine. The map layout is very well-suited to the AI attacks, reinforcements are perfectly manageable, enemy bases have multiple entrances which I liked, and when Ordos reinforcements began to arrive, it was over pretty quickly. Expertly done map progression!

I'd like a few less unbuildable tiles on the Starport island, and there's a cliff that tanks can traverse on the north side of the smuggler base. I don't know if that's just me, but if you find it, put a rock on the cliff!

O6V4: This one's a good deal easier due to the smugglers' position. I adore the ridges and cliffs with turrets nearer the player's base, but the cliff walls to the north and east certainly are... obstructive. They could probably use a few curves! The map is open enough, I think, so there's no need to put breaks in them. It seemed you wanted to ferry enemy units to the northeast attack vector.

Since this map went a lot smoother, I was quite ready to attack before the 30 minute mark, so that last reinforcement at about 3 mins left on the timer I could do without. However, the Atreides infantry that came down during that wave were... interesting! I think you could have more infantry-based attacks, and if you put a curve in the cliff by the Harkonnen base where you could drop an infantry-only entrance, it would help their attacks' pace as well.

I notice the Atreides base is in the far northeast, so the Atreides infantry reinforcements that arrived must have been dropped in that blocked-off area. I think the northwest area of the map could use some reshaping in general, but it's pretty much an aesthetic complaint. If you do, perhaps you could add a small Atreides expansion with a barracks and open the area up! Feels like a barracks would be nice there.

Finally, the worms were a couple of real jerks on this map. Do they both spawn close to the player's base, or what?

O7V2: Those little segments of wall near the Spice fields are appreciated.

This level really brutalized me at first. They send a lot of infantry, Sardaukar and Sonic Tanks, so a couple of Siege Tanks in place of those Combat Tanks at the start would probably go to better use. Maybe more Raiders over Quads and then all the infantry could be Troopers? The original level had two Siege Tanks to start, so at least that would be nice.

Destroying the two Atreides expansions and, less so, the main Atreides base, was a lot easier. That said, I believe the beginning of the map is overtuned while the latter stages are undertuned. Nerf enemy attacks at the start, buff enemy defenses later on, and I think this map will feel a lot better!

O7V3: REEE the walls are not here. But starting with two Wind Traps and two Siege Tanks made this level WAY easier to start than the other version. It made a huge difference.

The enemy defenses are better and the beginning is easier, which were my only problems with the last map. I think this version is better, but... the player's base could be moved a liiiittle bit closer to those Spice fields or some walls could be added. Particularly the southern Spice field; my Harvesters finished the closest Spice field to the west very quickly, and then my Harvesters and the Atreides' and Imperials' were all sharing the same field. I'd say the infantry-only passage on the south Atreides expansion could be expanded by one tile too. And, something was snatching up my Harvesters constantly. I think it was the worms, so maybe I got some bad RNG but if they're positioned near the player, maybe they could be moved a little further away. It might have been the enemy AI since I used the western Spice field. Again, I think the player's base could be moved a little further south. That'd help with the general Harvester vulnerability.

O8V2: I half love and half hate this map.

The beginning was great. Despite the masses of enemy units, I was able to successfully defend the north base entrance, get my economy going at a great pace, I'd say you could drop a couple of Wind Traps for the player's start because four is a tad much without structures to drain the power. I REALLY like the enemy's unit composition, large attacks, most of the terrain on this map is very well done, I like the large open area just in front of the Atreides base, infantry rock in good locations, the Spice fields are well placed except for that one behind the Atreides base which had me looking for that last Harvester for a while, uhh... it was pretty good.

The island the player starts on is a tad small. This is no problem because not only is there another rock island north of the starting position, but if the walls are removed, there's a good deal more space. I'd recommend nixing a bunch of the walls and just leaving a couple of segments near the west and north base entrances, like how the original O8V1 did it.

The mercenaries prioritizing the Atreides drove me nuts. Clearly, the best place to set up the Refineries was on the north side of the base, and so I targeted the Harkonnen and Imperials first. I've adjusted allied AI priorities to coax them into attacking specific sides on some of my maps, so if you'd like to do such a thing for this map, it's what I'd recommend, but considering that you're basing the style on the original maps, I suppose that's not a suitable idea.

The Atreides, when I attacked them, had a great base layout. I enjoyed prying their defenses open and devouring the meat of their base. The Harkonnen and Imperial bases had pathing that made me REE. If you could reduce the amount of paths a tank will want to take, it'd be easier to funnel them into the entrances. I think they could also use some infantry only entrances, or at least the Harkonnen base could. The Imperials' Starport reinforcements are also pretty nasty... I'd remove some units, like those light vehicles, and let them build them manually instead. That should help.

O8V3: Two Wind Traps at the start! And the beginning worked out fine. Same deal with the economy and Spice fields and stuff.

The ridge north of the starting position should be freed up. Grenadiers would logically be placed there, but they can't be trained. It would be a FANTASTIC spot for some Missile Tanks, Deviators, or Siege Tanks, but there's infantry rock blocking the way up. It just doesn't make any sense. There's also an area on that ridge where some infantry rock clipped off part of a cliff tile.

Once again, the Harkonnen base gave me trouble, but this time it wasn't because of pathing within the base itself. The ridges between the Ordos base and the Harkonnen base could be spread to the east a little. One tile on the west, a couple of tiles in the middle, my tanks keep swarming around and their defense forces overwhelm my trickling units unless I go around to the east completely. It's really inconvenient.

The Atreides base was harder to pry open this time, but not in any bad way. The Imperial base up top could use some more space though.

O9V3: The Atreides expansion on the south side of the map was nice. I'd put some medium gun turrets on the west entrance to make it a little easier to capture, but it wasn't hard to at all. Having Ornithopters for the main enemy bases was nice.

I like the terrain on this map in general, but I think the little area between the Atreides and Harkonnen bases could be a little more open. It's kinda difficult to get units in there. I ended up going through the main entrance. The Atreides base entrance could be expanded to face the bottom of the map, too. They have an expansion there, and that's what I went for first, so going up to the Atreides base would have been really convenient if not for the awkward layout right next to the Harkonnen base.

The little rock island east of the starting location could use some more space for buildings. I wanted to place another MCV there!

O9V4: The terrain on this map looked a little more artificial, if you know what I mean. The bridges are neat, but the cliff walls could use some rounding and stuff.

I liked the mercenary placement on the last map, but due to the terrain here, the player's base is just way more open. They helped a lot to stem enemy aggression in the last map, here not quite so much. The cliff wall just west of their base could be opened up, I think that'd help a bunch.

Thanks for the smuggler base in the top left. I guess it could use a few more defenders, like just some light vehicles would do, but it's fine as it is. Free money for the win. It is pretty far across the map, though, so a stable economy is perfectly achievable before we get the chance to send some engineers up there. I found it after leveling the Atreides base, so... maybe moving it down to the southwest rock island, or giving some kind of hint that it's there would be nice.

The Imperial and Harkonnen base entrances are so close to the Atreides it kind of demands the Atreides be taken out first. If you want, adjust the mercenary AI to prioritize Atreides structures. Otherwise, if you could open up the Imperial base a little more, or less-so the Harkonnen base, that'd be great.

Overall, this has been a fun and well-constructed campaign.

There. I hope that feedback is helpful!

Edited February 9, 2018 by Fey

[Krypto]

@Domaithianus

Your probably long gone, judging by the fact you've not logged in since January 2018, but I still want to share my thoughts and appreciation for your work, this is one of the best campaigns for Dune 2000 I've experienced and certainly one of my favourite's that I will revisit time and again, to replay missions with enthusiasm and saveless for a greater challenge. The composition of the map layouts were excellent, faithful to the original concepts but with your own unique reindition making for a familiar yet fresh experience. The terrain was creative and interesting, I like when authors make detailed rock formations, multiple paths around a map and especially alternative versions of the same mission for extra replayability. The difficulty was challenging yet fair, even catching me off guard in certain missions where I failed initially and had to restart and utilize a different strategy, I always play on Hard being a skilled player. I enjoy missions where you need to consider your tactics and build orders early, then consider how you progress from early to mid and then end game like a game of chess, you need to build a certain way and priortize different areas such as early defense or a strong offense in order to overcome an aggressive A.I and difficult circumstances. I will share my reflections on missions 4 and beyond as this is where the difficulty and enjoyment really kicked in for me.

I really hope you return one day and remake the Atredies and Harkonnen campaigns like you said!

Spoiler

O4V3: This took me by surprise, on maps where the enemy base is far away and doesn't appear aggressive, not attacking frequently and sending a small to moderate amount of enemies, I like to push for a Heavy Factory early to start producing Combat Tanks which make for ample defense, able to hold their ground against most vehicles and crush infantry with ease. I saw the Smugglers attack and was able to fend them off with ease, then the Mercenaries and Harkonnen begin to attack in quick succession, I didn't prioritise early Troopers not predicting I'd be attacked frequently and in large numbers. This forced a restart when the situation became out of hand and I lost my units with my base becoming defenseless, I then restarted and took advantage of the rock formations to setup squads of Troopers, the most effective method of optimising their power becoming invulernable to being rocked, but very suspectible to Siege Tanks or Sonic Tanks. I was really surprised at the size of the Harkonnen base, stretching far from right to left, with several Gun Turrets to boast. I really didn't expect both a Mercenary and Smuggler base! No wonder they were able to manifest an effective strike force, especially with the Mercenaries having two Barracks and Light Factories, it's a drastic change to the O4V1 which is pathetic by contrast, the Smugglers having a paltry base with no Mercenaries or strong Harkonnen presence. This was an excellent challenging level early on, if your over confident and underestimate the strength of the enemy here.

 

O4V4: This was much easier by contrast, the Mercenaries are sectioned off in a corner of the map, away from their allies they were easy to attack and overcome, although having a Heavy Factory this time around it didn't make any significant difference to the threat of their attack force. The position of your base also offers a great strategic advantage compared to the other map, their is only one main entrance to your base which is enhanced with walls creating a funnel, making it easy to create a defense line to slaughter the enemy. Infantry can come from the southern ramp, however you can block this off and they won't come from the top northen side which has rock formations, this is excellent as it forces tanks into one opening as well. The Smugglers and Harkonnen being far away in the bottom right hand corner, aren't a threat in this map and rarely attack, they are sitting ducks awaiting their demise from your ravishing forces. A very fun and unique alternative compared to the prior, despite feeling much easier.

 

05V2: Oh boy I love the mining spice to purchase the Deviator mission, it's intense with the swarm of Infantry that can amass if you don't take the Barracks outposts early. In the original I choose to destroy the Atredies entirely, I'm a completionist and opt for annihilating the enemy even if it isn't part of the objective. On this map while the Infantry force didn't feel as large and menacing compared to the original, I liked the fact the Atredies had two bases, a smaller one serving as a forward outpost then a large one which was tough to crack with one narrow entrance with walls, then comprised of tanks behind it making for an effective defence line. The Atredies tank force was more of a threat when it came to base defense, I had to build four Gun Turrets to feel secure, so they can hold off an attacking force with Siege Tanks to take out Infantry and reinforced with Troopers, I prefer not to use tanks solely for defense where possible, as you then lose money having to replace or repair them, when I need to be amassing them for my assault upon the enemy base. When it came to attacking, I had to recuperate after taking out the smaller base, not having enough to take out their main base effectively, another great mission which has a familiar layout to the original, but is more challenging thanks to the increased aggression and resources the Atredies have.

 

05V3: This one was tougher compared to the previous. It's a very creative and interesting design choice, you capture a small outpost, then take over a base rather then build your own, however on this map it felt like the Atredies attack with much greater numbers, they only have their main base, then one Barracks outpose as opposed to two on the other map, but this doesn't depreciate their capability, rather they are more threatening here, especially when they aren't predictable and sometimes prefer to send most of their force against the smaller outpost, which I walled off and made into a mining facility. I built some Gun Turrets and Troopers with walls to fend them off, with the walls in place all they could do is succumb to gun fire and weren't able to run amok and destroy my spice mining encampment. By contrast it felt easier to attack the Atredies here, they aren't spread out but focused in one corner, although their base entrances are smaller and have two Rocket Turrets on both sides, it didn't feel as occupied compared to the one on the other map, which was larger by contrast. This map was an excellent example of role reversal, it was harder to defend your base but easier to attack the enemy's.

 

O6V3: Wow I found the original O6V1 to be hard when played blind and you don't have an effective strategy to build a force with economic efficiency to protect the Starport which is far away. This map was a very interesting setup, your exposed being in the centre of the map, with the Atredies in the top left and the Harkonnen in the bottom right, although the Starport is near a Smuggler encampent, they are negligent and don't assist directly, instead they only appear to attack when their own harvester or forces are provoked. This was a tough and formidable challenge with the enemy attacking from different directions making them unpredictable in their attack patterns, I opted to build Troopers and Quads early on for protection against the Harkonnen which come from the south west area and decided to wall up the southern ramp, because their are walls already near it so why not take advantage to exploit the situation? I felt like I had control over the situation, cutting down the Harkonnen with ease in my central base then the Atredies began attacking from the north and they came with large amounts of heavier tanks, where the Harkonnen mainly used Trikes, Quads and infantry. I needed to support my Gun Turrets with squads of Quads, particularly when Missile Tanks came in quick succession and detachments of Siege Tanks. The attacks on the Starport were infrequent, but this was brilliant because you lull the player into a false sense of security, when the Harkonnen attacked from the south I reinforced it with troopers and some tanks, however near the end when the timer was almost over, I really didn't expect a large Atredies tank force to appear from the north and sneak attack. I couldn't have done this without saves and will definitely replay this mission saveless to get a true impression of the challenge. With the arrival of the massive reinforcements it's like the original, the pressure eases off but it took time to take out both bases, the Harkonnen having a big base in the corner with narrow entrances, I decided to attack from both the north and west entrances simultaneously to crush them. An excellent reinterpretation of the original, unique and challenging with a great layout.

 

O6V4: This was just like O6V2, in that it was really piss easy compared to O6V1 and O6V3, like no challenge by contrast. The Smugglers this time are in front of your base and even have a small defensive line, the Harkonnen need to go through them to get to you, what happened is their was absolutely no threat to my base or the Starport, hell thanks to the extra space you put I just built a Refinery and Heavy Factory on the nearby rock formation! I was able to get my economy setup really easily and quickly, focusing on Harvester production and using my tanks to reinforce the Smuggler forces to ensure they remain in tact, by contrast on the other map I couldn't focus on Refinery/Harvester production early due to the amount of incremental and frequent attacks. It also felt much easier taking out both bases, they are smaller with wider entrances and felt less occupied. A very fun mission despite being far easier.

 

O7VB1: This was interesting, really fun but weird in that it was easier compared to the Starport mission, I naturally assumed it would be harder as it comes afterwards. The Atredies post little to no threat, I just stationed Troopers and Infantry by the south east where they attack and they managed to hold off anything they mustered. The north west Harkonnen base is the real threat, being large and producing Devestators, but they aren't a threat to your base as they focus on the Mercenaries and they in turn harass and attack them, it's only the eastern base which only produces light tanks that really attacks your base, hell I didn't need to build any extra turrets, just use the tanks I built along with the Gun Turrets to defend my base, protecting the engineering team is easy, they aren't specifically targetted by the enemy and you can wall off the entrance to the west, although no one really attacks from there in the first place. It didn't seem justifiable building the Starport, as you only get two Deviators and a Missile Tank infrequently at best, ofcourse I didn't expect massive reinforcements like the previous level but hopefully something more abundant. After taking out the eastern base, I capture their Repair Pad which is a common tactic of mine, as it's a handy way to repair your army without having to retreat. Then I focus on the big Harkonnen base, taking them out from the top east entrance and slowly working my way through, doing my best to avoid the cluster of turrets in the west and destroying their power. The Atredies are in a weird position in this map, the eastern Harkonnen base is in their way, so they can only attack from the south east and their base isn't as occupied or threatening by contrast, they were easy to destroy. Playing as the Mercenaries was easier and more fun, I didn't spot you get Starport reinforcements as normal, they are certainly more effective compared to the Ordos deliveries. Thanks for creating this fun bonus mission, despite being way easier then expected!

 

O7V3: Here is where it gets really challenging, I actually had to restart twice after failing early on, I didn't expect both the Atredies and Emperor to attack early, consistently and with intimidating numbers. I struggled with defence and lost my forces, until I changed my build order to putting down a Refinery and a Heavy Factory immediately, creating a tank force of 6-7 Combat Tanks, which were able to fend off attack waves and hold their ground without being destroyed, then I got a repair pad to ensure their longevity and got my economy going to expand and start building an army. The Mercenaries are like the original, good at distracting the enemy and taking pressure away from your own forces, but not strong enough to take out a base on their own without assistance. I loved the small enhancement you made to their encampment, with the surrounding walls and one Rocket Turret, it's a neat touch. I also liked how you changed their delivery forces, they mostly get Siege Tanks with Troopers here, as opposed to Trikes and Quads in the original, with the rare delivery of Combat and Missile Tanks. I took out the small outpost to the right, then the larger one in the top right, then ended with descending upon the main base from the top right entrance which is weaker, because fuck going through the southern one with rocket turrets and the mass of tanks behind it. I liked how the Imperial Rocket turrets were right next to the Atredies Construction Yard, making it hard to take out if you've got a weakened attack force, I actually couldn't take out the whole base with one wave of forces, which were crippled from taking out the prior bases and had to send in a second wave. Thanks to the Mercenaries attacking in synchronicity with myself, we won the day against a grueling mission, it's great when you attack together with them, most of the time they either attack too early when I'm not ready or late when I'm already ready to go.

I replayed this mission with the Mercenaries and found it easier compared to Ordos, I play the Mercenary ones authentically, meaning I only use the units supplied by Starport deliveries and never purchase anything extra, using what I have intelligently, mixing units to enhance overall strength and reduce weaknesses and waiting till I have a formidable force to attack with. Although I actually failed the first time early on, because I wasn't paying attention to protecting the Ordos harvesters, they lost one to many and ended up selling their whole base xD In the second and successful run I actually did it saveless unintentionally! After I took out both outposts, I had a small to medium and crippled force with mainly Siege Tanks, if the Atredies had numerous Sonic and Missile Tanks in their base I knew I'd be annihilated when attacking, but I gritted my teeth and attacked from the top right entrance, with careful unit positioning I was able to take out most of their base, then the Ordos finally joined in and finished them off. I assume the Ordos don't have any specific scripting as they seem to build like skirmish A.I, they mostly focus on building their base and just kept building harvesters! Then finally built an army after a long bloody time! An excellent re-creation of the original, far more challenging and intense, I love the last three Ordos missions where you have Mercenary allies, their a very unique and cool addition.

 

07V4: This was another example of role reversal, it's easier to defend here as the Atredies and Imperials don't attack as often nor with a force as menancing compared to the prior map, however it's harder to attack their bases as the Atredies is larger and the Imperials have their own fully fledged one. The Mercenaries seemed to fair better on this map, they were more effective at crippling the outer defense of the Imperial base and pretty much took out the southern Atredies Barracks outpost after I cleared out the two main bases. When playing as the Mercenaries I first took out the Imperial starport in the corner where the Atredies base is, as a full scale assault at any other entrance would result in heavy casualties and a destroyed army, then I worked my way down taking out their power and their remaining forces before descending onto the Imperials for a delectable slaughter. Overall a very cool, alternative version of classic Mission 7.

 

O8V3: This was a tough nut to crack, the enemy attacks frequently from different diections, in big numbers and early on, the Harkonnen have a giant base which was tough to take out and you need to destroy the Imperial outpost to get to the weaker entrance. Their is a lot of pressure from both entraces to your base early game, but after getting your defence up and a bunch of units you gain control and can hold your ground. I focused on the Atredies first being the primary choice, as their base is smaller and easier to attack, then working my way to the Imperials and attacking the Harkonnen through the weaker entrance. I wasn't able to take out the Harkonnen base with my first force, but crippled most of their productive facilities and could muster up a second force to win the battle. I always thought M8 was one of the hardest for Ordos next to M6, due to having to face both a big Atredies and Harkonnen base, supported by a small but effective Imperial outpost that receives reinforcements in succession. It was unusual to see the Mercenary base have so many turrets, the south east entrance with Gun Turrets was puzzling as the enemy never attacked there so it seemed pointless. A challenging and awesome remake of the original.

 

O8V4: This was still as oppressive and challenging, the Harkonnen's are really nearby and although their base is smaller, it's well defended and hard to penetrate as it's stuffed with tanks, it was grueling to take them out and took a while of crippling their economy and launching an effective assault with enough units from their eastern entrance. The Mercenary base is much smaller, having no Light Factory and only one Rocket Turret, but their safe from attack with only Sarduakar harassing the eastern entrance, a few well positioned Siege Tanks neutralized them. Here the Atredies have the larger base, however they aren't the biggest threat, as the Harkonnen are much closer but they seem to be more aggressive in attacking more frequently. In fact it was easier to take out the Atredies simply due to capturing the Harkonnen base and making good use of Devestators to tear through the northern Imperial outpost, then working downwards, devouring the Atredies in turn. An very awesome map, like your other missions the mapping layout and structural detail feels like it was made by Westwood

O9V3: The end game to this glorious campaign, certainly ends with an impressive bang! Like the original the Mercenary base is front of your own, effectively acting as a shield, they prevent any northern threat from reaching you and create an effective distraction against an attacking force, this makes a huge difference making defending your base a breeze and the difficulty comes from taking out the remaining armies. The Harkonnen base is large and stretches in breadth, making it hard to take out in one fell swoop, reinforced with Imperials to the east and with turrets everywhere, it's a formidable fortress to decimate, I took over some structures but couldn't fully gain control with my first attacking force. Their was a slight struggle in between building a second force and holding on to my assimilated structures, before finally wrestling control and destorying the entire base. Then I felt the Imperials were a larger threat then the Atredies, having a larger tank force when attacking, their base was a pain in the ass to attack, forget going across the central bridge, it's cramped, full of turrets and a funnel making you a sitting duck, the western entrance supported only by Gun Turrets was the best choice. It's funny how their base is small, yet they produce units more frequently compared to the other two, making them a bigger threat as a result. By choosing to take the Emperor out first, it's easy to attack the Atredies from the north which is defenceless and has their windtraps exposed, crippling their southern turrets and the remainder of the base, the south eastern base was quiet and easy to destroy. So attacking the bases was the brunt of the challenge like the original, but actually protecting your base is easy thanks to the Mercenary presence, a very satisfying conclusion to this excellent remake.

 

O9V4: This was the harder of the two, like 09V2 the enemy bases are in close proximity with one another, as a result you pretty much have to take out the Atredies first, as theirs is the only base where the other two aren't directly adjacent, otherwise you risk being caught in a deadly crossfire if you try to take out the Harkonnen or Imperials first. The Mercenaries are slightly further away, but have the benefit of having only one entrance to the west, which is more strongly fortified with extra turrets compared to the other map, however they seem to attract more attention from the Harkonnen and Imperials, so I had to reinforce their defence or they risk being overrun. It was a more slow and cumbersome onslaught compared to the other map, due to how cramped the Atredies base is, everything just congregates at one focal point, making it harder to penetrate and extinguish the enemy force being your force is obliterated. Then I took over the Heavy Factory by their top east entrance and built a defensive wall of Rocket Turrets and started massing Missile and Sonic tanks to take out the Harkonnens and southern part of the Imperial base. These ones were easier to annihilate, as their economy and growth seems to be stagnant by the time it came to seeing their demise. I don't think I even noticed the Smugglers till near the end, but a great source of additional revenue to aid in finishing off the remaining armies. I didn't dig the criss cross bridges in the Imperial base, just annoying to traverse and causing a big cluster fuck However still an excellent finale that does justice to the original, with it's own unique interpretation.

There you have it, if you actually read this and return I'll be gobsmacked, but if it was a futile endeavour no matter, thank you for sharing your creative talent at awesome game design.

[Domaithianus]

I return.  Sorry I haven't been around for a couple of years or so.  I actually started work on another project, and promised myself I wouldn't log back on until it was done so that I wouldn't be tempted to post bits before it was complete... then the small project turned into a large project... then the large project turned into a huge project... then I kept reaching a point where I thought 'Hey, maybe just a couple more months of work, and it'll be done.' which turned out to be wrong every time... and I kept having more ideas, and then I burned myself out creatively.
The project really is nearly done now, and should be releasable soon though.

@Fey thank you for playing through, and for your review.  As always, very helpful insights - I really do appreciate it.  When I have some spare time, I'll tweak this campaign, and I'll be taking lots of what you said into account.

 

@Dark Wesker thank you.  Really glad you enjoyed these missions.  Yeah, the early missions were hard to do much with while keeping the original concepts.  Thanks for playing through.

 

@Krypto thank you so much, that was really gratifying to read on my return.  I will evetually be releasing sets for Harkonnen and Atreides too, as well as tweaking these missions.  I've actually developed my mission building a lot since making this, so it's great to hear you enjoyed it so much - I find it hard not to just see all the flaws these days.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Domaithianus

[Fey]

@Domaithianus Welcome back, man!! We've been eagerly awaiting your return, and I'm very glad to see you again.

5 hours ago, Domaithianus said:

thank you for playing through, and for your review.  As always, very helpful insights - I really do appreciate it.  When I have some spare time, I'll tweak this campaign, and I'll be taking lots of what you said into account.

My pleasure, hope I could help. Hey, when you go into tweaking things, there are plenty more assets available these days! Have you checked out the new Autogun Turrets, or Feda's Mission Launcher? Klofkac even came out with a fantastic new editor. And we even found explosive barrel behavior in Dune 2000! Here's a visual demonstration (with sound and memes too!) using some new sprites we have for them:
https://i.imgur.com/t7q6txL.mp4

So maybe you find something you like and want to put to use. At the very least, I would recommend checking out Klofkac's awesome new map editor and Feda's awesome new mission launcher. The map editor is a complete replacement for TibEd and the mission launcher has tons of new features, including the ability to load mods on a per-mission basis.

If you'd like help with the new stuff and don't want to bug Klof or Feda, Cm and I are naturally still around and would be more than happy to try!

5 hours ago, Domaithianus said:

I've actually developed my mission building a lot since making this, so it's great to hear you enjoyed it so much - I find it hard not to just see all the flaws these days.

This is a good thing! It means you've improved. Have no shame for mistakes made in the past; you've moved past them in many ways by now, and spotting them is just one way to confirm that.

[Cm_blast]

Welcome back Doma. The modding on this game have reach new skylines. And not refering to just new units and so on, but a new version of the mission launcher.

This new version will allow to load certain mods into certain missions, so if you remember these mods that used tibed to alter the game, now with the new version of the mission launcher it is possible to prepare your campaign to use these modifications but only for that specific campaign (or even just for a couple of missions of the campaign).

This mean that you can play a campaign I did that use modifications withouth overwritting the original file; so today it is possible to play the first mission on my "Emperor return" (which has certain modifications), then playing the third mission of my Ixian campaign (other modifications) and then playing the vanilla Ordos campaign withouth copying any files, doing back ups and all that stuff.

If you want to give a chance of that check it.

It is included a few of the really old campaigns that you may have already, but also a new one that make use of the new features, like altering the color of the hub and a new turret with a machine gun instead the old gun turret (on a few missions). And the best thing that you don't need to overwritte any file, except the launcher itself (although you can rename it).

But yeah, as it is all already prepared to play, you can give a try and see yourself the new stuff that can be done using this new version which, again, won't alter any other mission or the vanilla game.

Even if you are not into doing modification is still worth it for the reason I gave early, being able to play 5 different campaigns with 5 different modifications withouth worrying about which files you need to change, to overwritte, to back up and so on.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Cm_blast

[Domaithianus]

@Cm_blast @Fey  Thanks for the warm welcome back.  It's a great community on this forum, which I feel is a tesament to the game itself.  I find the same when I play online, D2K players always seem to be good natured and friendly.

 

I've been looking at the new stuff available, though I have yet to download any - my main PC is down at the moment, and I'm trying to save it, so I'm having to borrow a laptop for now - but it all looks extremely impressive.  I remember when I was last on here, thinking it looked like the tools had really advance a lot since people began modding this game, and I see that progress hasn't stopped.  Though I must confess, I'm a little concerned my 2 or 3 year project will now be obselete before I've even released it :-P.  I may have a lot of catching up to do in how to use the new tools.

 

I've already begun work revamping this Ordos campaign, and I have an Atreides set near completion.  Should be releasing both pretty soon.  Then I'll likely have my main project ready to go.  Really looking forward to seeing how people get on with it.  A Harkonnen set may take a little longer, but I still plan to do one eventually, and it should at least take less time than the big project I keep yapping on about has. 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Domaithianus

[Cm_blast]

Good, I always looking to play campaigns, or to replay old campaigns if you they are revamped.

It is not needed to use every single tool available, unless you want to do it or it fits your story. If with the vanilla stuff your campaign it's good enough, then it won't made any difference using the new launcher/tools or just the old ones, but if you want to add the intel, new colors and so on then yes, it requires to work for a while just to "modern" everything.

For example, those campaigns I mentioned early, like the "Emperor return", "Ixian campaign"... had some modifications of the units, so I took the advantage of the new launcher and created the folder necesaries so now anybody can play them any time withouth doing a copy of the files, back ups and so on; the campaigns itself are not touched (except for 1-2 extra lines needed to make those missions to load those custom files), but the campaign plays the same with no further alteration for the player.

On the Frank Herbert, since it is based on the book I used the "intel" to give a brief backstory about the characters mentioned, just to help a bit with people that didn't read the book or saw the movie (although it was never a requirement to start with) but that's it, my other 60-70% of works hasn't been altered even with the new stuff available.

So don't worry about that. It is possible for you to redo the Ordos campaign if you feel that you can make it more fun and balanced and complete the Atreides the way you have it done is also fine. Intel, terrain-map... it's more like a "luxury". Fey used to write on the briefing the information of the units, pros and cons and so on, but now that info it's in the intel.

The good thing it's that if you always wanted to have certain unit available for 1 specific mission now you can do it; like giving to the Atreides a Devastator to be built, but as you cannot do that (unless you capture the hark heavy fact) and use spawns, reinforcements or something like that, you can actually make the devastator to be produced for the Atreides but only for that 1 specific mission, while the rest keep the vanilla stuff. This is more like in "ooh, that limitation it's gone, now I can do that idea that I couldn't before because either atreides never build the deva, or they will always can".

Anyway, if you check the Feda's campaign and the Custom Campaign data you will see multiple folders and so on, and my lastest campaign I went overboard and I did around 10 folders, so I could load 10 different modifications. So maybe 1 or 2 missions could be altered with the new tools to allow you to fit your story much better withouth "cheating" with spawns and so on, but it is not really a must have.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Cm_blast

[Domaithianus]

On 12/27/2020 at 10:59 AM, Fey said:

@Domaithianus And we even found explosive barrel behavior in Dune 2000! Here's a visual demonstration (with sound and memes too!) using some new sprites we have for them:

https://i.imgur.com/t7q6txL.mp4

Woah, those things really go off. Like a devastator self destructing.

[Fey]

9 hours ago, Domaithianus said:

progress

Perfection can never be attained, but it is something we can strive for anyway!

9 hours ago, Domaithianus said:

obselete

Ah, not at all. As a matter of fact, there are modern campaigns purposefully using an older style of map! An "outdated" style is just the personality of that campaign. And any revamps you do will take on a new personality based on your current judgments. Which is also a-okay! Revamp as you wish. I do the same thing. 😅 Much to everyone's vexation, since I don't produce new maps like I should. Still, I was able to contribute heavily to the modding side of things, which can be used in more ardent mappers' campaigns, and can inspire more modding. So it all works out somehow, just do what you like!

9 hours ago, Domaithianus said:

releasing

Hype! We look forward to it!!

6 hours ago, Domaithianus said:

devastator

Aye, this was just a little test to see if they would work, and it was indeed using the Devastator self-destruction power.

Some more short video clips for other new assets below the spoiler:

Spoiler

After some balancing and such, they're a lot more, uhh... balanced in how much damage they deal and stuff. Here's a small clip of some of the new "Munitions Silos" clustered up with some Spice Silos, being destroyed by RPG Quads:
https://i.imgur.com/yzW4XWz.mp4

The damage they deal looks a bit more appropriate, yeah?

That's also on the Heighliner tileset, which... was that around when you first swung by? And there are Autogun Turrets, a popular new asset, around the various Silos. They go pew pew and doesn't afraid of anything. If you'd like to see more of those, here's a clip of a bunch of them stacked up:
https://i.imgur.com/TQc1iDZ.mp4

One of the Combat Tanks gets too close to a bunch and just gets shredded, but the other that sits at max range lasts quite a while. They annihilate infantry and are fairly effective against light vehicles, but they're inadequate against armor. Although they can soak a bunch of shots from CTs, so there's that at least! Those sprites were based on a vehicle's sprites, and I also touched up the spriteset for that. Here are some "Autogun Tanks" in action:
https://i.imgur.com/hlmSUD0.mp4

It's a double-barreled tank, so it could be anything you want it to be. I just decided to stick with the autoguns theme so there's more separating them from Combat Tanks. I balanced them around the strengths and weaknesses of Autogun Turrets: They're rather durable and have good attack power versus targets strong against Combat Tanks, like Troopers and Missile Tanks. However, they're slow and can't match armored anti-armor units like Quads or Combat Tanks. So they perform well if you roll them up to the enemy perimeter and have them be the first things in the way of enemy defense forces, or the first things targeted by enemy turrets, or if you group them up with some artillery like Siege Tanks or Missile Tanks somewhere that they can stay and front of and protect. They don't even come close to replacing Combat Tanks and other traditional units though.

Some modern campaigns have featured "hero" units, like the player commander, on the battlefield on certain missions. If you ever want a commander unit and don't want a big, badass tank for the commander to be driving, there's always these lovely new sprites DxSard did up:
https://i.imgur.com/IbJXQIv.mp4

I also did some work on these. The death animations, muzzle flash, spriteset alignment, color correction for the Saboteur palette... and besides commander units, they also make nice high-end infantry in general. Cm used these in one of his recent campaigns.

On the flip side of things, the Engineers now have sidearm assets:
https://i.imgur.com/XVr4qu8.mp4

Which are not at all badass, in fact they're rather puny and perhaps even entirely pointless, but they're nice flavor. They could probably kill a Trooper with these, maybe a weakened Light Infantry. Of course, that's just how I balanced 'em. If you want to slap a harder-hitting weapon on 'em, it might look a little silly since the sprites I did up show a very small weapon in their hands, but the assets are there if they are wanted.

Here are some more Engineer clips:
https://i.imgur.com/I0Iprsz.mp4

The first clip is just thirty or so Engineers running around pew pewing at things. They're very weak, but with thirty of them and nothing shooting back, they manage to kill some things.

The second clip has some enemies that shoot back. Troopers go down easily, but that Siege Tank one-shots all but one of them. By contrast, the new Shotgunner infantry which can also be seen in this clip after the captured structures are sold manage to take the Siege Tank down to half HP. The job on the Shotgunners was exactly like the Engineers - a new firing animation, an adjusted sidebar icon, and that's it. They make a very fun replacement for traditional Light Infantry!

The third clip is just some Engineers versus a Raider. They win, but they are terribly cost-inefficient.

Anyway, yeah! Lots of neat new stuff to check out.

If anything, I'd recommend having a look at the new Munitions Silos. They have been a lot of fun for me so far, and we haven't seen them in any campaigns yet!

They're a classic in C&C, so they feel right in d2k. You can put them around specific enemy structures, like big sections of walls or enemy factories, to add new weak spots to the enemy base without actually weakening the enemy, just giving the player more opportunities to deal more damage. They can also be used to make AIs clear certain walls out without giving them a priority to attack them by putting some Munitions nearby. And, they can pose some threat to the player's units too, forcing him to slow down, look more closely at the base he's picking apart, and maybe micro units a little differently.

For instance, I placed some Munitions Silos around this large base (highlighted by green boxes):

Spoiler

Just having one in a few places doesn't do much. It'll blow up some walls, maybe damage some tanks or kill some infantry nearby, but it's not like seeding an enemy base with nukes. Just quick ways to open up shortcuts, and make more avenues of approach viable. The top-left area of the base with all those Wind Traps is a glaring weakness, but with the Munitions Silos around, the player can attack from other angles without first attempting to knock out the power and deal plenty of damage anyway. There are no Munitions Silos near those top-left Wind Traps because that's a weakness all on its own, there's no need for them there.

Take the two Silos next to each other just above that infantry-only as an example:

Spoiler

Only takes out a few walls. And the one next to the Autogun Turret nearby, all that does is take out a couple of wall segments, damage a few more, and damage the turret:

Spoiler

So they're not quite like the incredibly destructive explosive barrels that I remember from RA2, meant only for like the tutorial missions or introductions or whatever. Instantly destroying everything around them because kaboom. There's some good potential with these ones in balancing d2k campaign maps, rounding out the potential weaknesses in an enemy base or making certain weaknesses even more exploitable, all without handing the player easy victories if used properly. And they're a blast to play with too! No pun intended.

I presume you'll want to stick with the classic stuff until your first campaign project already underway is finished. Unless you're going neck-deep in on the revamp, in which case I encourage you to explore ALL the options! Hopefully any of the things I've listed proves useful or at least fun.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Fey
typo lol