[RELEASE] War of Assassins Sandstorm expansion campaigns

[jamesensor]

Lol it worked. I kept a contingent on the atreides base and that made the emperor faction thinking twice on an all out attack. The reinforcements later helped defending it. Then I placed a tank+missile wall at the middle of the map and harvester extermination started, while my allies made prepared their offensives.

 

On the harkonnen campaign, map 3, great stuff - To make it easier I tricked the emperor on attacking the mercs and these got squeezed with the help of the ordos lol, leaving me time to build up my base. At my first run, the mercs overran the ordos base. 2nd time I tried this strategy to make things more interesting xD

Edited February 13, 2016 by jamesensor

[Feda]

I played the mission a lot of times, I never managed to have the Ordos fully destroyed by the mercs lol, interesting. If you watch the story, that is very uncanonical since in the Ordos campaign you have the same mission with the task to destroy once and for all the Mercenaries :D

[jamesensor]

In any case, it could be seen as a break of truce plotted by the harkonnen to frame the emperor. Every  turn through each faction's perspective on key moments, you slightly changed something in terms of strategy - final mission with atreides or the others, the approach had to be different, as we spoke about; the jamming outpost either destroyed by harks or atreides, the trigger is always on the player's hands to turn the battle on its favor. Yesterday, in this mission, somehow the smugglers engaged the emperor but got destroyed because the outpost was still working. Poor guys, annihilated!

 

Oh, and the sabotaging mission, playing with the harkonnen, the fremen stop at the starport's walls and don't destroy it. With ordos didn't happened. I just ended the mission and moved on.

[Feda]

Yea, I liked all these randomness things. IMO funnier to have the same mission behave in multiple ways each time you play it rather than be the same every time. That's why I used a lot of neutral active factions, it actually makes the game and the diplomacy in the mission much more dynamic. For example if you find things hard enough in a mission, you'll try to avoid getting close to the neutral factions so you don't get additional enemies. Anyway, the whole point was to have something new, not the same old style of "your team vs enemy team". Having free for all situations or mixed conflicts like two 1v1's in the same mission makes the game more dynamic.

 

The Fremen do very low damage vs walls, but eventually they will destroy them. It takes a while, but I didn't want to remove the walls cause... well it looks so good :D

 

About the Smugglers, they can survive on their own if they are only fighting the Emperor. If they somehow become hostile to the Guild too, then they will surely die. I usually tried to take out the Jamming Outpost asap since the smugglers become a very valuable ally afterwards. You can actually destroy the Outpost in a very easy way, but it ain't honorable :D I think you know what I'm talking about

Edited February 14, 2016 by FedaYkin

[jamesensor]

" You can actually destroy the Outpost in a very easy way, but it ain't honorable :D I think you know what I'm talking about"

Yep, I know..

You did well with the diplomacy dynamics. ;)

It's interesting to see that this game has had so much investment in terms of single player content, while so many other games with their own devkit handed since launch, players didn't do squat with it.

[Feda]

Tbh the feature that really makes dune stand up compared to other westwood rts like it (like C&C 95 and RA1) is the fact it had so many sides and it actually made use of diplomacy between them. It wasn't just an 1v1 or 1v2 (player alone) like it was in the other C&C games. And also, the neutral diplomacy stance which is unique in the C&C-Dune franchise, I didn't find it in any other C&C game

[Cm_blast]

I found something odd.
Although this happen with a map of mine, I saw happening in one of yours, so you maybe know.

I saw an IA ordering Harversters using the starport. I had the reveal map to 0 to check what the IA do, and suddenly when I look at him, several harversters were near the starport. I load a previous state (1-2 minutes before that) and pointed the enemy to check.

And yes. He, for some reason, ordered a Quad and 4 or 5 harvesters. 40 minutes or so have passed when that happens.

In this very campaing "Sandstorm", I saw the Ia doing it in the second level with the Atreides. I played lot time ago, but I remember seeing 1 or 2 harvesters near the entry of the starport, appearing after a while (I almost destroyed the base to the left first, then the one in top, and before sending my engineer I saw the harversters appearing there.

Did this happen to you before? I mean in general, not in this particular levels.

Pd: Just in case. There isn't any starport delivery for the enemy, nor my level, nor in yours.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Cm_blast

[Feda]

Yea, he probably does it to fill the HarvesterPerRefinery quota that is specified. Instead of building them from the factory, he purchases it from the Starport. That's what I think

[Cm_blast]

2 hours ago, FedaYkin said:

Yea, he probably does it to fill the HarvesterPerRefinery quota that is specified. Instead of building them from the factory, he purchases it from the Starport. That's what I think

Dunno, seems a bit to much ordering 5. Maybe the Worm eat one, but I never saw an enemy with 8 harversters when he should have 4.
Sometimes the IA have an extra Harverster because the quick unit build rate, starting to build a harverster just because he doesn't count the ones that already comming to the field, but 8 was .

 

[z_kerekes]

Hello,

Hopefully somebody still read this: does anybody know how the WOA Sandstorm Ordos Mission 5 should be done?

The Emperor has such a huge base  that no matter how many units I produce, I always get overwhelmed by them and even the Atreides AI ally gets annihilated in like 20 minutes or so.

This happens even if I quickly destroy the 2 front smaller bases when the game begins.

Don't want to build up turrets and always counter attack from behind turret lines, maybe there is another method that we should do?

Thanks for any help in advance!

[Szwagier]

its easy... i just played it on normal:

DO NOT UPG FACTROY/YARD

make fast as possible 2  ref + 2 har(so u got 4)

then start produce combat tank

then make wind,ref,wind,ref ( u got 6 har) and still make all the time combat 

dont use concrete(only winds need it, one per wind)

after 4 ref make  barrack and start make  troopers

make another 2 ref and if u need winds also

make outpust, starport

order carryall, if u need more harv also do it

make light factory

if u got bank u can make second heavy factroy/light factroy/startport since u DIDNT USE CONCRETE and its easy to destroy

produce all the time

combat tanks/quads/few raiders/troopers res order in starport

start hunt their harv

easy

 

[Cm_blast]

@FedaYkin
Finally I played the whole expansion, because I really wanted to look at all maps that I didn't played yet; I did it on easy.

I already played long time ago some maps but I gave up during the six mission of the Atreides and... well; on easy and this map still is a pain!!!

After beating the early 5 missions with not much problem, suddenly this one transform in a very hard map; I rushed the launch on the Yellow Outpost to free the smugglers but at the end didn't matter; my Harkonnen ally lost a few buildings, the smugglers got annihilated and, after seeing how the enemy just keep sending big waves after waves (And this it's in easy, scripted deliveries are cut in half and the AI don't do traditional buying"; but nothing could stop them.

I manage to survive and decided to rush turrets as I never build before; dunno, between 15-20 turrets so I could gather enough units to start on the offensive without loosing more stuff while defending. Still, the enemy has a very easy access outside the base so took me a good amount of time to take out the enemies mostly on my own.

Then, the mission 7 which... was surprising easy! Yes, there are plenty of enemies, but the way the map it's designed was easy to start attacking the enemy harversters early; combined with the plenty of resource, units and money. Because of that I dragged enemy units against me, but unlike the mission 6, the design here makes the AI to go much more around the rifts, so his units got spreaded and easy to kill.

Then there were a good amount or reinforcements that keep coming from time to time so overall this map it's not that hard as the previous one.

For the Harkonnen campaign, the mission 5 (which it's the same as Atreides-6) I rushed 20 turrets early and that's it; I wasn't as near as destroyed nor my smuggler's allies.

There is something here; on the Atreides version of this map the outpost to destroy (so smugglers become ally) it's revealed, but on the Harkonnen version is not. I don't know if that was intended or not.

The Ordos part was fine for the most time; although those poor guys... the Atreides have the improved Palace with 4 Fremen per spawn, and the Harkonnen the more accurate Death Hand, the Ordos don't get anything at all =(; well, a few reinforcements from the smugglers on the mission 6; but on the mission 7 nothing happen; poor guys =(.

But anyway; you give to the Ordos players more buildings and there is that map with enough windtraps to place all the building possible withouth needing extra windtraps (except if you place more turrets or several factories, stuff like that).

Overall I enjoyed the campaign and I am glad I played it on easy; the mission 4 it's something really interesting, and the "shared" maps are also something that looks fine, although the main problem with doing this it's when you play as Ordos only the three first maps are original; map 4 to 7 are maps already played, but anyway; I congrat the efford and the idea of making houses to cooperate by playing the same map from different prespectives.

Also those "neutrals" present in battles that may help you in battle but also can turn on you makes me be very carefully; on one map somehow the Ordos become hostile without ever triggering the ingame message (probably some splas damage) and was forced to reload because I was attacking very strong on the Emperor and didn't have too many units defending, but nothing that reloading a few minutes ago and being more carefully didn't fix.

ERRORS, or not...
I want to ask about some errors I found, just to know because maybe they were intended or, depending of the files uploaded in this post (or the main launcher), maybe the files I got here are not the good version or just simply didn't realice what was wrong.

*Harkonnen map 1: The main problem with this map it's how the "inactive" base it's not that inactive; Yes, their unit build rate it's set to not produce units, but at any moment an order it's going to happen and, once 1 single units start to wander around the base, it's just a matter of time that the tile that reactive the base got stepped by that unit thus revealing that tile. I only needed to reach 2 bases, the third much before I was entering the base already got reactivated by that reason.

*Harkonnen map 4: Atreides Fremen getting stuck. The map it's about the three task (1 per house) with the Fremen, controlled by the AI, are tasked to destroy the starport. They got stuck because the walls around the starports are controlled by the mercenary side, which it's ally. Only two sections of walls are controlled by the smuggler but if the Fremen cannot reach them they are going to get stuck.

I can see from the Ordos map 4 that all the sections there are smugglers so the Fremen attack those sections if needed to reach the starports; I am assuming that the Harkonnen version should be the same, so as a workaround I am going to change them for future plays.

*Harkonnen map 6: I already say it before, but on this same map (Atreides perspective) a reveal map it's placed on top of the jam-outpost, making easy as Atreides to launch a DH; however, for the Harkonnen there is nothing; intended? not? <-- I can do the fix to myself quickly, but I want to ask you first if both should have mission on the building or only the Atreides version.

*Harkonnen map 7: It's is something small; but on the Atreides spawn (AI ally) they recieve two Harkonnen tanks; I guess you did a copy-paste of the map and forgot to turn those tanks into the Atreides version.

*Ordos map 3: The Harkonnen Ai it's messe up; Maybe you didn't paid attention to this ally while testing (or simply I don't have the correct file, dunno), but unfornatelly the Harkonnen proportion of units make him an useless ally-nonally (neutral player).

Those Harkonnen have a 1.000 proportion for everysingle unit on the game, including MCV and Death Hand; because of this, 2 MCV were producing and, only when a DH it's launched, the AI builds quickly a couple of units; mostly 1 infantry, 1 trooper, 1 trike and 1 quad at most.

The reason: the AI understand that he need to build 1 of everyunit, but the DH also count here; so he already has 1 each of everyunit "some in stactic position, others wandering around the base" but only when the DH it's launched the AI understand "ok, NOW I have 1 of each unit, so I'll proceed to build the second of each unit" but since DH lands the AI stop again and, because of that, their attacks were useless.

If you have your Harkonnen AI for this map correct you can send me the file, or I can just simply do a fix here quickly, by turning the proportion of non-combat units (MCV, carryall, Death hand...) to 0 so the AI behave more like normal.

Also this AI have a starport but not deliveries for free, so I am going to set the value to 1 so that building are not useless; but again, if you have a working AI to pass me I will use it, but if not (or too lazy) the small fixes I did should be enough to havea more active AI present and that's enough. you don't need to do anything at all.

Ordos map 7: Same as Harkonnen map 7; the Harkonnen recieve Harkonnen combat tanks but also the Atreides recieve the same Harkonnen combat tanks instead the Atreides version; also the player recieves some Harkonnen tank on the reinforcements loop; maybe because a copy-paste from the Harkonnen version?

Just need to say to me if that stuff was intended or just a few mistakes; I can do the quick fix from here for future references.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Cm_blast

[Feda]

On 1/2/2019 at 5:29 PM, Cm_blast said:

@FedaYkin
Finally I played the whole expansion, because I really wanted to look at all maps that I didn't played yet; I did it on easy.

I already played long time ago some maps but I gave up during the six mission of the Atreides and... well; on easy and this map still is a pain!!!

After beating the early 5 missions with not much problem, suddenly this one transform in a very hard map; I rushed the launch on the Yellow Outpost to free the smugglers but at the end didn't matter; my Harkonnen ally lost a few buildings, the smugglers got annihilated and, after seeing how the enemy just keep sending big waves after waves (And this it's in easy, scripted deliveries are cut in half and the AI don't do traditional buying"; but nothing could stop them.

I manage to survive and decided to rush turrets as I never build before; dunno, between 15-20 turrets so I could gather enough units to start on the offensive without loosing more stuff while defending. Still, the enemy has a very easy access outside the base so took me a good amount of time to take out the enemies mostly on my own.

Then, the mission 7 which... was surprising easy! Yes, there are plenty of enemies, but the way the map it's designed was easy to start attacking the enemy harversters early; combined with the plenty of resource, units and money. Because of that I dragged enemy units against me, but unlike the mission 6, the design here makes the AI to go much more around the rifts, so his units got spreaded and easy to kill.

Then there were a good amount or reinforcements that keep coming from time to time so overall this map it's not that hard as the previous one.

For the Harkonnen campaign, the mission 5 (which it's the same as Atreides-6) I rushed 20 turrets early and that's it; I wasn't as near as destroyed nor my smuggler's allies.

There is something here; on the Atreides version of this map the outpost to destroy (so smugglers become ally) it's revealed, but on the Harkonnen version is not. I don't know if that was intended or not.

The Ordos part was fine for the most time; although those poor guys... the Atreides have the improved Palace with 4 Fremen per spawn, and the Harkonnen the more accurate Death Hand, the Ordos don't get anything at all =(; well, a few reinforcements from the smugglers on the mission 6; but on the mission 7 nothing happen; poor guys =(.

But anyway; you give to the Ordos players more buildings and there is that map with enough windtraps to place all the building possible withouth needing extra windtraps (except if you place more turrets or several factories, stuff like that).

Overall I enjoyed the campaign and I am glad I played it on easy; the mission 4 it's something really interesting, and the "shared" maps are also something that looks fine, although the main problem with doing this it's when you play as Ordos only the three first maps are original; map 4 to 7 are maps already played, but anyway; I congrat the efford and the idea of making houses to cooperate by playing the same map from different prespectives.

Also those "neutrals" present in battles that may help you in battle but also can turn on you makes me be very carefully; on one map somehow the Ordos become hostile without ever triggering the ingame message (probably some splas damage) and was forced to reload because I was attacking very strong on the Emperor and didn't have too many units defending, but nothing that reloading a few minutes ago and being more carefully didn't fix.

ERRORS, or not...
I want to ask about some errors I found, just to know because maybe they were intended or, depending of the files uploaded in this post (or the main launcher), maybe the files I got here are not the good version or just simply didn't realice what was wrong.

*Harkonnen map 1: The main problem with this map it's how the "inactive" base it's not that inactive; Yes, their unit build rate it's set to not produce units, but at any moment an order it's going to happen and, once 1 single units start to wander around the base, it's just a matter of time that the tile that reactive the base got stepped by that unit thus revealing that tile. I only needed to reach 2 bases, the third much before I was entering the base already got reactivated by that reason.

*Harkonnen map 4: Atreides Fremen getting stuck. The map it's about the three task (1 per house) with the Fremen, controlled by the AI, are tasked to destroy the starport. They got stuck because the walls around the starports are controlled by the mercenary side, which it's ally. Only two sections of walls are controlled by the smuggler but if the Fremen cannot reach them they are going to get stuck.

I can see from the Ordos map 4 that all the sections there are smugglers so the Fremen attack those sections if needed to reach the starports; I am assuming that the Harkonnen version should be the same, so as a workaround I am going to change them for future plays.

*Harkonnen map 6: I already say it before, but on this same map (Atreides perspective) a reveal map it's placed on top of the jam-outpost, making easy as Atreides to launch a DH; however, for the Harkonnen there is nothing; intended? not? <-- I can do the fix to myself quickly, but I want to ask you first if both should have mission on the building or only the Atreides version.

*Harkonnen map 7: It's is something small; but on the Atreides spawn (AI ally) they recieve two Harkonnen tanks; I guess you did a copy-paste of the map and forgot to turn those tanks into the Atreides version.

*Ordos map 3: The Harkonnen Ai it's messe up; Maybe you didn't paid attention to this ally while testing (or simply I don't have the correct file, dunno), but unfornatelly the Harkonnen proportion of units make him an useless ally-nonally (neutral player).

Those Harkonnen have a 1.000 proportion for everysingle unit on the game, including MCV and Death Hand; because of this, 2 MCV were producing and, only when a DH it's launched, the AI builds quickly a couple of units; mostly 1 infantry, 1 trooper, 1 trike and 1 quad at most.

The reason: the AI understand that he need to build 1 of everyunit, but the DH also count here; so he already has 1 each of everyunit "some in stactic position, others wandering around the base" but only when the DH it's launched the AI understand "ok, NOW I have 1 of each unit, so I'll proceed to build the second of each unit" but since DH lands the AI stop again and, because of that, their attacks were useless.

If you have your Harkonnen AI for this map correct you can send me the file, or I can just simply do a fix here quickly, by turning the proportion of non-combat units (MCV, carryall, Death hand...) to 0 so the AI behave more like normal.

Also this AI have a starport but not deliveries for free, so I am going to set the value to 1 so that building are not useless; but again, if you have a working AI to pass me I will use it, but if not (or too lazy) the small fixes I did should be enough to havea more active AI present and that's enough. you don't need to do anything at all.

Ordos map 7: Same as Harkonnen map 7; the Harkonnen recieve Harkonnen combat tanks but also the Atreides recieve the same Harkonnen combat tanks instead the Atreides version; also the player recieves some Harkonnen tank on the reinforcements loop; maybe because a copy-paste from the Harkonnen version?

Just need to say to me if that stuff was intended or just a few mistakes; I can do the quick fix from here for future references.

The reason why Atreides has sight of the outpost and Harkonnen don't was intended to represent the Atreides air superiority, their ornithopters scouted it out, but I never mentioned that anywhere so I can see why nobody got the idea  

 

About Hark1, yea, I know about it, decided to let it be like that since it was mission 1, did not aim for something extremely challenging, especially because the entire campaign is pretty difficult itself.

 

Hark4: i remember that thing with the wall, i believe the problem was they were attacking the walls as well and suffering splash damage from walls that killed them. I might remember wrong but i think this is why I did it that way, not sure. Anyway every time I tested it they did kill the starports eventually, usually at least 1 fremen was shooting it. I also remember they shot walls sometimes, but it might be the ordos version, dont remember, it's been a long time

 

About harkonnen tanks in last missions, yea, a copy-pasted trigger event, i saw it but decided to let it be since i kinda always liked to see combined combat tanks in one side  like the Guild, they get both atr and hark tanks from starports. And since all houses are allied and they also shared superweapons, it does make some sense to share some tanks

 

Ordos3: Yea I know how the AI numbers for units work, that sounds really bad lol, must have messed up the AI section somehow, definitely a bug, nice catch. I guess i didnt pay much attention to them when testing since they are a neutral faction meant to only spice things up a bit. I checked my version, I seem to have the same for death hand missile, which is bad  I think i used an empty AI file that i edited, IIRC empty AI has 1000 to everything, so probably that is the reason

 

Updating all these issues would be cool, but i am not sure how could they be added to the mission launcher pack and to the gruntmods edition. I guess Funky and/or Gruntlord should add them in case there will be fixes. I always wanted to fix Harkonnen 3 from stock War of Assassins for example (the one with no win event), but decided not to since i cant edit my initial post anymore and also i would need someone to add them in the mission launcher again.

 

Glad you liked the story and style of the missions and thanks for the feedback, the neutral mechanic is definitely something pretty unique and i also enjoyed it a lot, hence why i decided to take full advantage of it. It definitely makes things very interesting, especially on Medium and Hard, where one small splash damage could get you with 1 or 2 new enemies and open up a totally new front. I remember in hark 7 original WOA on hard, after killing the north-west sardaukar base i waited for atreides and ordos to weaken the eastern sardaukar base some more since i was really broke, they killed my harvs a lot  This campaign makes good use of difficulty levels imo, when i created it i only played on medium (as I always do) because that is the middle-ground between less experienced players and veterans.  I am sure I can't beat all missions on hard, i didnt even try all of them on hard cuz I know that, but there are ppl who can. Also, i let some small "cheese" possibilities here and there, such as no units for the enemy at the start of a mission, so players can exploit that if they can't beat it normally, or, if they want a challenge, they can try not to exploit that vulnerability

 

 

 

 

[Cm_blast]

1 hour ago, FedaYkin said:

The reason why Atreides has sight of the outpost and Harkonnen don't was intended to represent the Atreides air superiority, their ornithopters scouted it out, but I never mentioned that anywhere so I can see why nobody got the idea  

Oh, that's interesting. A small mention on the Atr one would be nice, just for clarify, but not a big deal.

1 hour ago, FedaYkin said:

Hark4: i remember that thing with the wall, i believe the problem was they were attacking the walls as well and suffering splash damage from walls that killed them. I might remember wrong but i think this is why I did it that way, not sure. Anyway every time I tested it they did kill the starports eventually, usually at least 1 fremen was shooting it. I also remember they shot walls sometimes, but it might be the ordos version, dont remember, it's been a long time

Yes, on one house all the walls are owner by the same side as the starports, while the other only 2 sections, but they got stuck because they couldn't reach them to shoot a something.

1 hour ago, FedaYkin said:

Ordos3: Yea I know how the AI numbers for units work, that sounds really bad lol, must have messed up the AI section somehow, definitely a bug, nice catch. I guess i didnt pay much attention to them when testing since they are a neutral faction meant to only spice things up a bit. I checked my version, I seem to have the same for death hand missile, which is bad  I think i used an empty AI file that i edited, IIRC empty AI has 1000 to everything, so probably that is the reason

Yes, probably that; I remember looong time ago, playing one of your Ixian maps on coop with a friend (using hamachi, I didn't ever know about gruntmods yet); for be able to play I arrange the sides, but I didn't arrange the Ai's, so I still remember seeing one of those guild-houses producing MCV; 5-6 at the outside of the heavy factory and I was "wait, what?" "Since when the AI can do that?".

1 hour ago, FedaYkin said:

Updating all these issues would be cool, but i am not sure how could they be added to the mission launcher pack and to the gruntmods edition. I guess Funky and/or Gruntlord should add them in case there will be fixes. I always wanted to fix Harkonnen 3 from stock War of Assassins for example (the one with no win event), but decided not to since i cant edit my initial post anymore and also i would need someone to add them in the mission launcher again.

I understand; at least I can do the more quick-fixes locally so if I play again I am not longer searching on the map for a map that never win/loose.

On the mission 6 for both Hark and Ordos (expansion) there isn't any mission fail, and I don't remember if it was a mission win either; maybe I added that too when I saw that 1 version was missin the win so I looked into the counter-part to check if the mission was there or not.

1 hour ago, FedaYkin said:

Glad you liked the story and style of the missions and thanks for the feedback, the neutral mechanic is definitely something pretty unique and i also enjoyed it a lot, hence why i decided to take full advantage of it. It definitely makes things very interesting, especially on Medium and Hard, where one small splash damage could get you with 1 or 2 new enemies and open up a totally new front. I remember in hark 7 original WOA on hard, after killing the north-west sardaukar base i waited for atreides and ordos to weaken the eastern sardaukar base some more since i was really broke, they killed my harvs a lot  This campaign makes good use of difficulty levels imo, when i created it i only played on medium (as I always do) because that is the middle-ground between less experienced players and veterans.  I am sure I can't beat all missions on hard, i didnt even try all of them on hard cuz I know that, but there are ppl who can. Also, i let some small "cheese" possibilities here and there, such as no units for the enemy at the start of a mission, so players can exploit that if they can't beat it normally, or, if they want a challenge, they can try not to exploit that vulnerability

Yes, the double battles are interesting too see; just people figthing each other than, sooner or later, you need to attack the enemy in common but being carefull to not attack them.

And like you say, splash damage can turn them against you, sometimes even without a warning. 1 minute I am fine, next minute somebody it's attacking me with no "X is hostile now".

I also like the neutral sides that are not part of the story; lesser/weaker enemies that can makes thing harder or help you to hold against some enemies; definitelly I am going to take inspiration from your campaigns in the future to do some ideas or whatever I can think.

[Rookie with Shield]

anyone has a guide or youtube video to play WOA snadstrom Atredies mission 6?

Seriously have no idea how to go through this match😆