Ukrainian Revolution

[damrankomran]

To anathema, what about england? Didnt they support chaos to create ukranian russian war?

[X3M]

Today, we have a national grieving day.

Almost every one knows someone who in their turn knew victims. One way or another.

We are finally getting them back home.

 

---

 

Ever since the plane got shot down....

Here in the Netherlands hear the weirdest things now in the media.

Every one is shouting something, blaming another, making theory suggestions of what might have happened.

Yet notching was consistent in the beginning.

 

There are more countries and groups being blamed for the plane being shot down, all over the world, then any one of you could imagine.

I could name them. But rather not since it doesn't benefit to this topic. And would only create chaos?

I will name only one item:

The civilians living near the crash site. Are scared that the Netherlands might attack them directly for vengeance? They shouldn't be afraid, we never attack civilians. We know better. We know they had notching to do with it. We can even imagine (contains a horrible description)

that they hear a loud bang. Later on they hear stuff falling around the house. And some time later, they walk into their yard, just out of curiosity, only to find plane parts and ripped off body parts. Of a child none the less. It must have been a horrible experience for them as well.

 

As mentioned before, media is a tool as well. Here in the Netherlands, we double check, triple check, quadruple check: Every little single news item all around the world. If it regards our country.

However, we cannot check all countries. Some are still a blind side to us. Unfortunately Russia is one of them. Except for this forum.

 

Now I never thought of Putin as a complete bad guy. He is trying his hardest and others should just give him a chance in doing well. Instead of telling him that he is bad. They should ask him if he would like to receive help. Or simply provide help. That way, he could do better and show the world that Russia (read Russian leaders) isn't bad.

That is what I thought.

 

But at this moment, not even one country is giving a sound of supporting his side.

Not even the civilians that live in the territory of the separatists.

And the only thing I see is Putin, threatening with putting up defences for his country?

And Russia telling the separatists that it was Ukraine who shot down the plane?

This is what the media of around the world is giving me.

 

That is why I am asking the Russian forum members here.

Just them.

What is Putin telling his country?

What is the information that the Russia media is giving to the people?

[damrankomran]

So just like evrytime russia is bad sixe but not europa. I really want to know how europa is always right side.

[X3M]

So just like evrytime russia is bad sixe but not europa. I really want to know how europa is always right side.

I didn't say that. I didn't say that Europe is the right side. I didn't say that Russia is the bad side.

I didn't say anything to that matter.

 

I simply said that we in the Netherlands are getting all kind of weird noises from the world. And none of those noises is supporting Putin at this moment.

 

I know better than that. I want to hear all sides before coming to conclusion. Putin has given his?

Now I await the answers of the people of Russia themselves.

So please, don't reply directly to my post. I want them to reply directly to my post.

Can you honour that?

[damrankomran]

Europe make them alcoholics with ambargos, with trade ambargos after down of soviets. Those people was in wery bad life for years. Butin, yes hes mafia like leader. Old kgb member. But as you europans said, kill to survive. So he rebulding his collapsed country. He ignore communisim, but started to imperialism wic traditional for europa. Its why he started aggrassive camping. Russian army was known as defansive for gtousand years. Now they are aggrasive. Georgia, now ukrain. Someone must show to europa world is not their playground.

someone must show europa, when europan children going to schools, because of europa russian children become drug and alcohol addicted, become sorry but nothing. Puting chencing this. Putin making russia strong again. For his leople. Just like you europans hes dont care any other people, you suropans started this shyt.

[MrFlibble]

X3M, my deepest condolences. To answer your questions:

That is why I am asking the Russian forum members here.

Just them.

What is Putin telling his country?

What is the information that the Russia media is giving to the people?

Here's what I know. A few days ago, an address by Putin was broadcast in the news. He was saying that an investigation should be carried out by the International Civil Aviation Organization, and that Russia will provide whatever help possible to the investigating team. This is the only address by Putin personally that I know of.

Also the news are that the locals were able to retrieve the flight recorders, and subsequently gave them over the the Malaysian delegation. Apparently the recorders were them given over to English experts for analysis.

Another news item is that the USA reported alleged evidence of Russia's involvement in the crash, however later they took this statement back apparently.

The investigation is not concluded, and the causes of the crash, as well as the people responsible, are not identified yet. This is what the news says here.

It is also reported that Ukrainian artillery continues shelling Donetsk and other targets in the vicinity of the crash site, which hampers cooperation from the locals. This is also reported by a Kharkiv news site (Ukrainian Russian language source).

[damrankomran]

Why answering to person who actually enemy of russia but not answeting to my post?

[MrFlibble]

damrankomran, you were already asked several times to refrain from xenophobic comments and to respect other users in this board. Please observe the rules of conduct, both those specific to the forums here (Forum Guidelines) and some general accepted forms of public behaviour.

[X3M]

MrFibble,

You have my gratitude. Thank you.

This is an answer that I was hoping for. Luckily it matches almost exactly with what I have filtered out of all the media. Although, I didn't know it was specifically artillery weaponry. At least I know that the seperatists said to come and investigate. Why Ukraine is showing this behavior, puzzles me to no end.

[damrankomran]

Hi my name is damrankomfan im a troll from upper trollland. Ehehehuehuehueha. I hope trolls invade evryvhere soon.

[X3M]

The following news had my attention:

"Unneeded" sanctions (in my oppinion) have heen taken towards Russia and vice versa, Europe/US. It makes no sense to the "intelligent" people.

Today I heared that Russian people are not allowed to use wifi anominously. Why has this been taken into action?

Further, Russia keeps blaming Ukraine for shooting down the plane. While the west and east obviously know that it was Russian technology. Only the seperatists had this? Russia continiously tells its people that it was Ukraine.

---

Is it pride?

Can't Putin admit it is true. Yet also admit it should not have happened? Why can't both sides say: leys come to an agreement? And Russia simply saying STOP. Only talking is allowed now? This time I suggest a hippy conference from both sides. No way that, that would happen :(

I have to say. I kinda predicted that some civilians in the crashsite would have secured personal belongings in a good way. And returned this to the investagators. Some are very grateful here, despite the fact that normally only the location is shown of where the material is supposed to be found.

There are 2 ways to look at this:

1. Some "criminals" can hide the stealing through the securing of material.

2. The securing of material makes sure that it is protected from enviromental influences.

The last is what kind people do. And it happened, thus will be remembered. Not the right thing (they could not have known). But a good thing none the less. I don't know if a thank you of any kind would ever come accross.

---

I hope to get an answer about the wifi situation. Am curious about that.

Another thing that I heared is that Putins daughter married a guy from the Netherlands? If it is true, or just a rumour, or a crazy man giving a theorie? Should that not increase relations instead of a declination?

Thus far my notifications and thoughts on the matter.

[MrFlibble]

This is the first time I hear about the WiFi thing. Absolutely no idea if this is true or not.

While the west and east obviously know that it was Russian technology.

To the best of my knowledge, Ukrainian military also largely uses Russian weapons, being a former part of the USSR.

I haven't watched the news lately, so I'm afraid I cannot provide any recent information from Russian sources, sorry.

Another thing that I heared is that Putins daughter married a guy from the Netherlands? If it is true, or just a rumour, or a crazy man giving a theorie? Should that not increase relations instead of a declination?

Again, never heard of anything like that before. At any rate, personal relations between politicians or their family members normally should not affect a country's foreign policy in any serious way.

[X3M]

That is why i post it here for a tripple check. ;)

[Anathema]

From X3M
The following news had my attention:

"Unneeded" sanctions (in my oppinion) have heen taken towards Russia and vice versa, Europe/US. It makes no sense to the "intelligent" people.

Today I heared that Russian people are not allowed to use wifi anominously. Why has this been taken into action?

.....

Further, Russia keeps blaming Ukraine for shooting down the plane. While the west and east obviously know that it was Russian technology. Only the seperatists had this? Russia continiously tells its people that it was Ukraine.



Is it pride?
Can't Putin admit it is true. Yet also admit it should not have happened? Why can't both sides say: leys come to an agreement? And Russia simply saying STOP. Only talking is allowed now? This time I suggest a hippy conference from both sides. No way that, that would happen :(


I disagree, the sanctions make a lot of sense.

I've read about the WiFi thing, but there are doubts about the feasibility of the plan (for instance, are you going to ask everyone on a train or a bus to show their ID-card when they want to use WiFi?). Seemed to me like a poorly conceived plan that won't come of the ground.

About weapons and what happened: everybody involved uses Soviet-era weaponry, so that alone means very little.

There's a Russian theory that MH17 was shot down by Ukrainian SU-25 jets. They also claim to have radar images that show SU-25 aircraft nearby when the disaster occurred. However SU-25 is a ground attack plane with a service ceiling of 7 kilometres, 3 km below the altitude where MH17 was flying, so this is highly implausible. More likely it was hit by a Surface to Air Missile, i.e. a Buk or SA-11.

From what I understand the Buk missile launcher is capable of firing and hitting targets on its own. However, on its own it's not capable of telling what the target is. It's usually paired with a separate "command" component and a radar component.
A Buk operated by an organized military force (i.e. Ukraine or Russia) would have been accompanied by command and radar verhicles, and besides, both Ukraine and Russia would have had acces to flight information of civilian airliners. That leaves two possibilities:
- either Ukraine or Russia deliberately targeted MH17
- the rebels targeted MH17 by accident, mistakenly believing that it was a Ukrainian military transport


(PS:I didn't use the quote function because the code seems to be either broken or extremely user-hostile)