Dune Dynasty

[Nyerguds]

Hee. F3 indeed works for the Starport. Neat.

Building targeting still doesn't seem to work as it should, though. Put a soldier at the left side of a 3-wide building, and it won't shoot at all. Put it on the right side and it will shoot at it automatically.

Some remarks:

-The Sabotage command still isn't targetable with the target button or "s" shortcut, though. I wanted to try blowing up a tank of my own, and couldn't.

-You can't remove building waypoints in left mouse click command mode by clicking on the building again like you can in right mouse button mode.

-The "Select Conquest" arrows have unremapped red pixels in them

[dynasty]

Thanks.

Is this the building targeting bug I mentioned? :)

This fixes units sometimes sitting still when ordered to attack a target out of range. This is because the path finder fails if all of the tiles between the unit and its target are occupied, even if there are plenty of empty tiles just around the path. You can try this out in Dune II: line up units in a long row and the order left-most one to attack the right-most one.

So maybe it fixes the second half of your targetting bug?

-Units don't automatically attack buildings, even if they are in range, if they can't target the top-right cell of the building (I'd expect top-left, since that's the actual cell of the building, but it's really top-right). Despite this, they don't move closer when ordering them to attack it, which means there are 2 different logics at work for the range check for auto-targeting and the one for manually targeting.

Building targeting still doesn't seem to work as it should, though. Put a soldier at the left side of a 3-wide building, and it won't shoot at all. Put it on the right side and it will shoot at it automatically.

Ah. I must have only tested it with 2-wide buildings, which is why I couldn't reproduce it. Looking at the code, units on guard command will only attack a structure if a designated point of the structure is in the weapon range. For a 3x2 building, this is the centre of the right-most column. For other shapes, this is the centre of the building. This is different from attack command, which fires at the closest tile.

-The Sabotage command still isn't targetable with the target button or "s" shortcut, though. I wanted to try blowing up a tank of my own, and couldn't.

I would like to keep the sabotage button as is, rather than making it a targetted command, since that's how it was in Dune II. At the moment, you can only blow up your own units by killing the saboteur with a third unit. Blowing up your own units isn't as silly as it sounds: it would be handy to be able to blow up a deviated unit. But I haven't thought of a good way to do it, short of introducing something new (e.g. double-click the saboteur, unit icon).

[Nyerguds]

So maybe it fixes the second half of your targetting bug?

Umm, that second half wasn't a bug. I just meant the actual targeting when attacking WAS calculated correctly, but the auto-targeting isn't :|

I would like to keep the sabotage button as is, rather than making it a targetted command, since that's how it was in Dune II. At the moment, you can only blow up your own units by killing the saboteur with a third unit. Blowing up your own units isn't as silly as it sounds: it would be handy to be able to blow up a deviated unit. But I haven't thought of a good way to do it, short of introducing something new (e.g. double-click the saboteur, unit icon).

Hmm, true... maybe you could add it as enhancement though? Even when made targetable the auto-targeting when the saboteur is releasing still happens anyway, and I do prefer it to be targetable in general.

Oh, another thing: could you make it so holding ctrl or shift or something allows you to use the up and down arrows to scroll through the sidebar list instead of scrolling the screen?

[dynasty]

Umm, that second half wasn't a bug. I just meant the actual targeting when attacking WAS calculated correctly, but the auto-targeting isn't :|

Oops, I reread that point incorrectly. Anyway, problem is solved.

-You can't remove building waypoints in left mouse click command mode by clicking on the building again like you can in right mouse button mode.

How do you unset rally points in RA2? It sounds like RA3 resorted to right clicking on an airfield to remove the rally point, but I can't get it to run to verify at the moment. It's a little bit of dodgy, but I might copy that if no better alternatives are proposed.

[Nyerguds]

RA2 uses ctrl+click for setting them, and I do believe you can ctrl+click on the building itself to remove them, too.

btw, what does this mean exactly?

Strategic map indicates which scenarios you have not yet completed.

I didn't really notice any difference...

[dynasty]

Hmm, true... maybe you could add it as enhancement though? Even when made targetable the auto-targeting when the saboteur is releasing still happens anyway, and I do prefer it to be targetable in general.

I rediscovered that the sabotage command doesn't work if the target is your own unit. The scripts don't like it. The saboteur just stands still and cancels the action a little later on. So back to ordinary move command it is, but with a special detonate flag.

Might try out the controls for Crazy Ivan on the saboteur. That is, right-clicking (left-clicking) on any unit will sabotage.

btw, what does this mean exactly?

Strategic map indicates which scenarios you have not yet completed.

Just wait a bit and the arrows leading to regions you haven't won will blink.

I didn't really notice any difference...

Good. :)

[Nyerguds]

Hmm, Crazy Ivan controls would work, yes :D

I did notice the blinking arrows, but I don't really know what it's supposed to mean or do...

[dynasty]

rcblanke at vogons was kind enough to make some SC-55 flacs and mp3s. At the moment, you can play Dune Dynasty with these files by unzipping the MP3 package into the fed2k_mt32 directory.

(Also, was there a list of Dune II musics thread to add this kind of thing to?)

[Nyerguds]

Hm, not sure, but I do keep an extensive collection on my hard disk. Link please?

[dynasty]

The thread is titled "Dune II HD port at last!" in the milliways section:

http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?t=33823&start=42

Not sure how permanent those links are either.

[Nyerguds]

Huh, seems I'm registered with an ancient email address I don't have anymore... can't log in :(

Could you send a PM to some admin at Vogons to change the email for my user (should be Nyerguds) to nyerguds at gmail dot com please? The original address is probably either "maarten.meuris" or "nyerguds", with as host "@tiscali.be" or "@tiscalinet.be". That mail service has been down for years X_x

By the way, it's not abnormal that the unit cap is saved in savegames; Dune II (and, any C&C game) savegames are made to be 100% independent from their source ini file.

[swt83]

Please add a multiplayer and/or AI skirmishes component to the game. It would be awesome.

[swt83]

Additional UI improvements that would be awesome:

• When units are targeted to be destroyed, they blink once to indicate successful targeting. It would be nice if buildings also blinked once.
  
• When units are instructed to move to a certain location, there is no visual indication the the command registered. It would be nice if the cursor animated in some way to indicate that the move to command was received.
  
• Units are stupid and will attack enemy units even at the expense of friendly buildings in the way. So they will destroy their own structures. They should automatically route themselves around structures.
  
• The guard command only works with a very small radius, so it's largely ineffective. This radius should be increased significantly so units can defend an area in a useful way. Also, "guard" should be the default status of a unit, not a command that has to be specifically given. This behavior would pave the way for the area-attack command (hitting A and clicking on the ground between enemy units) because units could just move there and go into guard mode.
  

Also note that the links to files as hosted on http://dune2k.com/ do not work because of a PHP deprecation error.

[dynasty]

Please add a multiplayer and/or AI skirmishes component to the game. It would be awesome.

Multiplayer is pretty hard to add as Dune II was not designed with it in mind. For multiplayer Dune II, you're better off looking into Legacy or Golden Path. Those engines were written from scratch rather than from the OpenDUNE code, which is pretty much the original Dune II engine.

Units are stupid and will attack enemy units even at the expense of friendly buildings in the way. So they will destroy their own structures. They should automatically route themselves around structures.

Bullets hitting walls, mountains, and structures in their path is intentional. Sonic tanks will also fire through your own structures. Rockets from troopers and launchers, in contrast, will fly over structures. This makes launchers more effective when defending from behind a wall, and troopers more effective when defending from mountains.

This is how Dune II is, so use it to your advantage. Hold fire might be handy, but then again, you might as well just order the unit to move.

The guard command only works with a very small radius, so it's largely ineffective. This radius should be increased significantly so units can defend an area in a useful way. Also, "guard" should be the default status of a unit, not a command that has to be specifically given. This behavior would pave the way for the area-attack command (hitting A and clicking on the ground between enemy units) because units could just move there and go into guard mode.

Units will return to guard command after completing an action, e.g. attack unit, structure, move to a destination. Attack ground commands, however, don't complete, and shouldn't because it is used to force fire at a tile. Attacking blooms and walls also counts as attack ground (but probably shouldn't).

Units on guard command will stay put and only attack units in firing range. Think of it as "hold position". The AI does have an "area guard" mode, which you technically can use with a little work. I won't be adding that to Dune Dynasty though.

[swt83]

Dynasty,

Do you have any additional features that you intend to add to the game? I'm new to the scene, but it looks like your version is the best available.

[Nyerguds]

Dune Dynasty holds a nice balance between original feel and new GUI controls, with added bug fixes.

At this moment, the only thing still on my wish list is for the walls and spice bloom attacks not to be seen as Attack Ground. Though that may be hard to do.

By the way, Area guard isn't really useful for a player, since it causes the unit to execute a "retreat" command after destroying an enemy (or, I think, after shooting at it once after it's out of its guard area). This makes it move back to the original spot where the unit was first spawned on the map. This works fine for preplaced enemies placed on a certain spot to defend their base, but as player command it'd require resetting that "origin point" every time the unit is set to Area Guard. This will, as side effect, obviously remove the use of the Retreat function.

Then again, you only got 4 buttons anyway, so it should work perfectly fine as long as no unit has the 2 commands together. And hey, you kinda could make Retreat make units return to your mission origin point (the thing in the mission ini that selects the CY from the start) rather than to their build location. In that case, some clever keyboard shortcuts could be implemented to work on all units, including specials like the Devastator which normally only has Destruct.

Not sure if that's really necessary to have, though...

[dynasty]

Thank you very much. :)

By the way, Area guard isn't really useful for a player, since it causes the unit to execute a "retreat" command after destroying an enemy (or, I think, after shooting at it once after it's out of its guard area). This makes it move back to the original spot where the unit was first spawned on the map. This works fine for preplaced enemies placed on a certain spot to defend their base, but as player command it'd require resetting that "origin point" every time the unit is set to Area Guard. This will, as side effect, obviously remove the use of the Retreat function.

Yeah, that was what I had in mind. It should be a fairly simple change, and the retreat function could be fixed too. But it would make the game incredibly easy, and it seems too aggressive for a player's liking.

Then again, you only got 4 buttons anyway, so it should work perfectly fine as long as no unit has the 2 commands together. And hey, you kinda could make Retreat make units return to your mission origin point (the thing in the mission ini that selects the CY from the start) rather than to their build location. In that case, some clever keyboard shortcuts could be implemented to work on all units, including specials like the Devastator which normally only has Destruct.

Devastators don't retreat! Besides, it wouldn't do them any good.

I was considering adding a retreat to repair bay option, instead of the somewhat unpredictable retreat to origin.

Anyway, some ideas that might be nice (for another game):

• multiplayer
• unit caps beyond 80
• structure caps beyond 80
• larger than 64x64 maps
• fix up the game speed stuff (1.5 is not the inverse of 0.75, Westwood!)
• fix up the dodgy tricks you can do by changing game speeds.
  

 
Edit: Some more ideas:

• attack move
  
• way points
  
• patrol routes
  

[MrFlibble]

I've always thought of the retreat command as an emergency option when your units are hit by surprise enemy fire and you need to quickly move them out without having to micromanage them. Since the usual map design is such that the player's base is in one "corner" so to speak and the enemy base is in the other, moving to the point of origin should also mean moving back to the player's base most of the time. On later stages though, the player may build a factory in captured territory (or capture one for that matter), and ordering a unit to retreat could easily send it into dense enemy fire.

Not much of a problem anyway IMO, since Dune II requires some micro to move the units around. This is also valid for the issue with units not moving around friendly structures to shoot an enemy. Makes for a nice trick against the enemy ^_^

[dynasty]

I do find the retreat button to be a bit redundant now though.  Pulling units back from an attack with a click is just as easy as pushing 'R', and is also more flexible and predictable.

 

Another thing I am still considering is adding a follow mode like in the Sega Mega Drive version.  i.e. the units stay on move command even after catching up to the leader, rather than returning to guard in the middle of nowhere.  This means that the followers won't attack enemies in range though, even when they are stationary.  As far as I can tell, this is the behaviour in the Sega Mega Drive version.  Not really sure if that would be any less confusing than the current system.

[MrFlibble]

Follow mode would be nice. However, I believe the Warcraft II/Starcraft type would be more effective (i.e. units stick to the target they follow but will attack enemies in range), although I'm not sure if you want to introduce something that wasn't originally there.

[Nyerguds]

Both Follow and Retreat are made redundant by the multi-select, to be honest.

 

btw, I can't seem to post properly... it says my post is empty half of the time I try to post something, and one time the reply box even never showed up. Is anyone else having these issues?

[MrFlibble]

btw, I can't seem to post properly... it says my post is empty half of the time I try to post something, and one time the reply box even never showed up. Is anyone else having these issues?

X3M was right about it, seems to be related to the Infinite Dark skin.

However, I have JavaScript disabled most of the time, and stupid posting problems don't occur that way.

[Nyerguds]

Well, my Opera's inbuilt IRC relies on Javascript, and disabling it seems to be browser-wide, so I can't really do that, since I got my IRC channels open all the time.

 

Anyway, seems to be all OK now.

[MrFlibble]

I only know that IRC stands for "Internal Relay Chat" or somesuch :P

[swt83]

I am having trouble getting the necessary INI files for Super Dune 2 Classic.  Every downloadable version of the game includes an executable file.  Is there a URL where I can find the files necessary to add to Dune Dynasty?  I have succeeded in getting the other expansions.

 

As an aside, I just saw this image tonight.  I think it's from "Dune2: The Maker".  Somehow all the units are in 3D, which is pretty amazing.