UK General Election 2010

[athanasios]

:O This poll is fascist-at least. I am shocked. It is the first time I see a poll where the options not to vote for any party (blank vote) or having not decided yet for whom to vote are missing. Granted I am not a British citizen, so I am not supposed to vote for this poll, but we have to keep some standards gentlemen.

In 'democratic' countries anyone has the right to cast a blank vote or not to vote at all.

In 'other' countries the only option is to vote for a single party. A failure to do so (blank vote) means that either you will loose your job or end in prison. - There a responsible citizen would choose the latter. Such an attitude is a duty.

I come to the defense of Dragoon Knight's option not to vote for anyone or even not to vote at all. He is not the single person who has decided to do so. In elections the percentage of those who do not vote or cast a blank vote usually varies from 15% to 35%. All these people have valid reasons to do so. Please read my post carefully and you will understand why many of them have decided to do so.

[Dante]

The USA, just to take an example at random, has a 50% voter turnout. That means that fully half of the population that can vote, doesn't. Reasons for not doing so range from the mundane ("I can't be bothered") to the stupid ("I don't see how it effects me") to the apathetic ("It doesn't make a difference anyway") and everything in between. Those are all reasons. None of them are valid.

Not voting is not some sort of brave stand against a series of losing options. It is the losing option. It's a statement of defeat. It's saying "The extent to which I don't believe in this system is such that I don't even think it can be improved." And maybe it can't. But not voting isn't going to change that.

[Dunenewt]

BNP are economically left wing.  Edric...can you please separate BNP and UKIP?  I can't bear to click any option which includes BNP :(

[Dante]

Don't do it, Edric. Let him squirm. >:D

[Edric O]

BNP are economically left wing.  Edric...can you please separate BNP and UKIP?  I can't bear to click any option which includes BNP :(

The BNP identify themselves as right-wing and often refer to their enemies as "the left". Furthermore, you are incorrect about their economic policy. "State benefits for white British people only" is not left-wing for the same reason why "state benefits for bankers only" is not left-wing.

What defines the left is a desire to achieve the greatest possible level of social and economic equality. Different left-wing groups and ideologies disagree about what level of equality is possible, but they all believe in equality as their guiding principle.

What defines the right is a belief that some people are better than others (because they are supposedly more intelligent, or more "entrepreneurial", or more white-skinned, or more religious, etc.), and the people who are better deserve greater power and/or wealth than the rest.

The BNP strongly believes that white British people are better than others and deserve special treatment. That is why they are right-wing.

[Dunenewt]

I'd say they are left of centre fascists...but anything to avoid them being grouped with UKIP.

[Edric O]

I'd say they are left of centre fascists...but anything to avoid them being grouped with UKIP.

Again, the fact is that they virulently oppose racial equality, which makes them virulently opposed to the left. Even on economic issues. After all, political discrimination against a racial group will make that group poorer, and thus promote economic inequality between races.

Of course the BNP is not the same as UKIP, but then again the SNP is not the same as Sinn Fein either, yet they are grouped together in the poll. I did that to keep the number of options at a reasonably low level.

Edit: And speaking of grouping parties together, I realized that the Greens should be mentioned as an example of "other left-wing".

[Dunenewt]

But the BNP and UKIP have very different policies, and have the more differences compared to the Lib/Lab/Con who are all getting closer together.  If you took out the racism, they'd be a left wing party, besides, I don't see racism as being associated with either the left or the right, as the Stalinist governments were well known for being anti-Semetic amongst other things.  The only major thing UKIP and BNP have in common is tighter rules on immigration. 

[Edric O]

You can't just "take out the racism." Racism is the BNP's raison d'

[Dunenewt]

Ah colonialism - a very liberal idea.

Edit by Edric: Clicked "modify" instead of "quote". Sorry.

I think I said something along the lines of...I don't like the old left/right classification of politics as its too old fashioned and cannot accurately describe modern political parties.

[Dante]

They're similar enough.

Additionally, I find the term "left of centre fascists" to be highly questionable.

[Edric O]

Ah colonialism - a very liberal idea.

Umm, I hope you realize that pre-20th century liberals - especially the ones in the UK, who pretty much invented laissez-faire capitalism - were so right-wing that they would have made Margaret Thatcher look like a commie.

[Dunenewt]

Yes, I mentioned liberalism because you're one of the few people that really understand the word.

Dante, UKIP and BNP are nothing alike! 

[Wolf]

Labour seeks to portray Gordon Brown as a Dirty Harry figure.

[hide]This was absolutely hilarious. Not to mention spot-on for a meaningful April Fool's.[/hide]

[Dunenewt]

Is the creation of the World's Largest Marine Reserve a good tactic for unpopular Western Governments?

[Dante]

Dante, UKIP and BNP are nothing alike! 

Global warming is the new secular religion, many of whose proponents doubted Christianity and whose political philosophy was destabilised with the collapse of communism in 1989.

We believe that whilst climate change is proven, the arguments over global warming, and particularly anthropogenic global warming (AGW), are at this time unproven. We believe that the security, happiness and prosperity of the nation are too important to be thrown away in the pursuit of illusory aims.

I said similar enough and I meant it.

[Dunenewt]

In trying to find some sources for a counter argument, I found this delightfully misinformed piece of...well I don't want to say journalism, but you can read it anyway.

I'll let Nige explain:

[Dante]

Oh he explains himself very well, alright. See 1:24 to 3:04.

[Dunenewt]

I do agree with him that clean burn coal stations and nuclear power are the way forward.

[Dante]

Why?

[Dunenewt]

Cost per kilowatt.  Also, the new pebble breeder reactors and 'clean coal' are both relatively green anyway, because as we know, I don't agree with the UKIP policy on climate change 100%.

[Dante]

But you, like them, would rather discuss money than science. Money speaks to voters in a way that information does not, don't you find? You tell people that you're going to save them money and they might overlook the fact that you're carefully avoiding speaking about the science for fear of looking too much like those nutty climate change deniers in the BNP. Funny that.

[Dunenewt]

Have you considered the carbon costs involved in creating these wind farms??

[Dante]

And mining out a finite resource is a better option?

[Dunenewt]

At least until fusion becomes feasible.