Abrahamic religions - the downfall of humanity?

[Mihail]

Does anyone else think this is true?

Over the centuries, these Big Three religions(Christianity, Judaism and Islam) certainly have been responsible for the eradication of many traditions, cultures and other religions. Pieces of history and great works of art have been destroyed, forgotten, and replaced with monotonous works which apparenty preach the "truth".

These days these religions breed only idiots - ignorant oafs who take their perverted and corrupted holy books so seriously that nothing else is right and that the "enemy" should be eradicated or converted(for example, midwestern Americans against Islam, nazis and neo-nazis agaisnt Jews, Muslims against Judaism and Christianity), and even those with "milder" views usually hold it against a person, even subconciously, for belonging to a "wrong" religion. This is something which should have no place in the modern world if we want anything to get better in it.

They played a central part in the eradication and subjugation of native peoples around the world(the Caribbean people, the inhabitants of the Americas, the Aborigines of Australia, etc.), and are certainly imperialistic.

Does anyone really think that the good they have given humanity outweighs the bad? And if so, could you list the good things? I can think of a few, but my opinion kind of stops me from trying too hard to think up good things about these three religions...

[CSyril]

Since the beginning of time, there have always been wars, and yes, many have been in the name of religion, nothing new here.  However, I believe the wars have always been waged for imperialistic reasons under the guise of saving

[Caid Ivik]

Does anyone else think this is true?

Over the centuries, these Big Three religions(Christianity, Judaism and Islam) certainly have been responsible for the eradication of many traditions, cultures and other religions. Pieces of history and great works of art have been destroyed, forgotten, and replaced with monotonous works which apparenty preach the "truth".

These days these religions breed only idiots - ignorant oafs who take their perverted and corrupted holy books so seriously that nothing else is right and that the "enemy" should be eradicated or converted(for example, midwestern Americans against Islam, nazis and neo-nazis agaisnt Jews, Muslims against Judaism and Christianity), and even those with "milder" views usually hold it against a person, even subconciously, for belonging to a "wrong" religion. This is something which should have no place in the modern world if we want anything to get better in it.

They played a central part in the eradication and subjugation of native peoples around the world(the Caribbean people, the inhabitants of the Americas, the Aborigines of Australia, etc.), and are certainly imperialistic.

Does anyone really think that the good they have given humanity outweighs the bad? And if so, could you list the good things? I can think of a few, but my opinion kind of stops me from trying too hard to think up good things about these three religions...

and what gave the latvian pagan cults to humanity?

[Edric O]

Since Humanity hasn't fallen yet, I think it's safe to say that anything which has existed for over 1000 years can't be the downfall of Humanity - if that were the case, we should have fallen by now. ;)

Over the centuries, these Big Three religions(Christianity, Judaism and Islam) certainly have been responsible for the eradication of many traditions, cultures and other religions.

Yes, but why is that a bad thing? Cultures and traditions come and go. I see no reason to be upset over their loss.

Pieces of history and great works of art have been destroyed, forgotten, and replaced with monotonous works which apparenty preach the "truth".

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Christianity, Judaism and Islam may have destroyed pagan works of art, but they produced many more beautiful works of their own.

These days these religions breed only idiots - ignorant oafs who take their perverted and corrupted holy books so seriously that nothing else is right and that the "enemy" should be eradicated or converted(for example, midwestern Americans against Islam, nazis and neo-nazis agaisnt Jews, Muslims against Judaism and Christianity), and even those with "milder" views usually hold it against a person, even subconciously, for belonging to a "wrong" religion. This is something which should have no place in the modern world if we want anything to get better in it.

Hmmm, I beg to differ. I am a Christian, I take my religion seriously, and I wouldn't call myself an ignorant oaf. :) Neither do I want to eradicate or convert the unbelievers - though converting more people would be nice, but that is not my life goal. Others can do missionary work much better than I; I am more of a political philosopher than a religious one.

More importantly, I want to address your point about some kinds of beliefs or attitudes having no place in the modern world if we want anything to get better in it. Beliefs do not shape the world; they are shaped by it. For the most part, people do not adapt themselves to their religion - they adapt their religion to themselves. I do not think that religious fanatics would be much less fanatical without religion; they would probably just find something different to be fanatical about. And many religious conflicts are really cultural or economic conflicts, with each side using religion to claim that God is on the side of their culture or economic interests.

They played a central part in the eradication and subjugation of native peoples around the world(the Caribbean people, the inhabitants of the Americas, the Aborigines of Australia, etc.), and are certainly imperialistic.

Imperialism can and has been justified by other things than religion - racism, for example, was originally created to justify imperialism, and it was quite effective. The powerful always find excuses to oppress the weak. If it's not because "God told me to," it's because "these natives are an inferior race," or because "we need to bring civilization to them" or "to spread freedom and democracy" or whatever.

It is a mistake to fight against the excuses they use. It is much better to fight against the sources of their power, the thing that allows them to oppress other people in the first place. And these sources are always economic - the powerful are powerful because they control vital land, resources, or means of production.

Does anyone really think that the good they have given humanity outweighs the bad? And if so, could you list the good things? I can think of a few, but my opinion kind of stops me from trying too hard to think up good things about these three religions...

How does an abstract concept like religion give something - good or bad - to Humanity? Only people can give things to Humanity. For example, Christianity didn't give us anything, good or bad, except itself. Christians - Christian people - gave us good or bad things, and often justified those things in the name of God. How can you decide whether a good or bad action done by a Christian was caused by his religion or not? How can you differentiate between the things "Christianity gave us," and the things that just happened to take place in Christian countries, and would have happened anyway with or without Christianity?

[gunner154]

I'd prefer to put the blame on people than their beliefs.

[Anathema]

Does anyone really think that the good they have given humanity outweighs the bad? And if so' date=' could you list the good things? I can think of a few, but my opinion kind of stops me from trying too hard to think up good things about these three religions...[/quote']

It's impossible to say wether or not a pagan Europe would have been more civilized by now than it currently is. And wondering about it is pretty pointless, to be honest. Religions aren't picked for their utility for the human race, but by individuals who think it's their ticket to Heaven/enlightenment/miscellanious. Trying to deny people that freedom is totallitarian, and pretty futile anyway.

Besides you have to be careful not to blame everything on religion. One example: someone once said to me that the Pope is responsible for a lot of AIDS infections among Catholic Africans because he doesn't endorse condom use

The gap in this reasoning is that the Pope doesn't allow marital infidelity either, and yet it's the biggest reason for the spread of AIDS.

]Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Christianity' date=' Judaism and Islam may have destroyed pagan works of art, but they produced many more beautiful works of their own.[/color']

I wonder what the Taliban built to replace all those Buddha statues...

Imperialism can and has been justified by other things than religion - racism, for example, was originally created to justify imperialism, and it was quite effective. The powerful always find excuses to oppress the weak. If it's not because "God told me to," it's because "these natives are an inferior race," or because "we need to bring civilization to them" or "to spread freedom and democracy" or whatever.

I can't recall any imperialist expansions based on racist ideology, unless your definition of imperialism is broad enough to include Hitler's adventures in eastern Europe. Ideological racism is a relatively modern thing, anyway.

As for bringing civilisation to native peoples, I'll say this. The social problems that the Australian aboriginals have are mostly a result of:

1) the government is leaving them mostly alone now, letting them live as they please

2) but even so, they still have access to drugs, alcohol, pornography and whatnot

To be honest I'm divided on this problem. You can't reasonably hold people from living the way they want to, but I have issues with parents deciding that their kids don't need education or healthcare.

[Mihail]

and what gave the latvian pagan cults to humanity?

In a word - culture. Music, dress, art(not in the traditional sense, but rather through things like complex embroidered patterns, woodwork etc.)

Yes, but why is that a bad thing? Cultures and traditions come and go. I see no reason to be upset over their loss.

You may not, but I do - the replacement of those cultures and traditions with one large, overpowering culture. Certainly after the Crusades of the 12th and 13th centuries, the same Latvian pagan culture became very stifled, as the "civilised knights" rode in from the south and slaughtered anyone that didn't convert. Who were the barbarians, and who the civilised people? I'm all for diversity, in no way would I like to see one culture(with quite dubious values, in my opinion) spread throughout the world.

More importantly, I want to address your point about some kinds of beliefs or attitudes having no place in the modern world if we want anything to get better in it. Beliefs do not shape the world; they are shaped by it. For the most part, people do not adapt themselves to their religion - they adapt their religion to themselves. I do not think that religious fanatics would be much less fanatical without religion; they would probably just find something different to be fanatical about. And many religious conflicts are really cultural or economic conflicts, with each side using religion to claim that God is on the side of their culture or economic interests.

So why give them more reasons to be fanatical? Especially a reason as absurd as religion? At least in the case of economic or national fanaticism, their prejudices and fears could be grounded - the dimishing of a nation's wealth, the loss of land or some other event that you can see taking place. You can't see your god or religion dieing, you don't even know for a fact that they exist!

At their core, these religions are based on fear and oppression, moreso than others. If you don't do this or that, you will go to Heaven, if you sin, you'll go to Hell. Only by following these rules and these leaders can you lead a good life!

Basically, they were thought up(or perverted) by men who wanted to advance only their own agendas, to control the weak and gullible, or the desperate, whos chances at a good life were so faint that they turned to religions for help, only to find(usually when they were nearing the end of their lives) that religion hadn't helped them one bit and only made them ignorant for a while, thinking that through prayer and devotion to some non-existant being they could gain a better life. Sure, they might have had peace of mind for a while, but what happened when they realised that it was really all a farce?