OK... this has to be a Miracle

[GUNWOUNDS]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/11/11/shot.in.head.ap/index.html

Woman in brazil was shot 6 times in the head by ex-hubby.  These were .32 caliber bullets.  None penetrated her skull.  All bullets were lodged underneath her scalp.

I cannot fathom this.  Her head should be mince meat.

So miracle or do you guys think there is an explanation.

[Acriku]

Can't figure the specifics of how it happened. Was she shot point-blank? From afar? While moving?

There are plenty incidents of freak physics, so saying this is a miracle is hardly progressive in finding out what really happened. It's more like sweeping it under the curtain so it looks nice, all the while the dirt is still there underneath.

[GUNWOUNDS]

maybe her bone density is exceptional...nah  ;D

And i am asking for ideas... hence no dirt sweeping anywhere.  Its just i own a firearm and i know what they can do.  Since the guy got six head shots on her (that hard to do even in BF2) i am assuming she was stationary and point blank.

[Acriku]

maybe her bone density is exceptional...nah  ;D

And i am asking for ideas... hence no dirt sweeping anywhere.  Its just i own a firearm and i know what they can do.  Since the guy got six head shots on her (that hard to do even in BF2) i am assuming she was stationary and point blank.

Perhaps she had excessive fat tissue in her face/head? Assuming point blank and stationary targets is pretty wide of assumptions. It's hard to figure out what happened without basic facts of the case. My idea is probably many factors aided in preventing the rounds from entering the skull chamber, such as obstacles (physically outside of the body and inside) inhibiting the rounds' speed, some possible way of distributing the energy of the rounds over a higher surface area thereby reducing the impact and penetration. An interesting case, that's for sure.

[TMA_1]

yes quite amazing! I dont really think it was a direct touch from God, but it could have been. Most likely it is just one of those strange quirks in life. I remmeber hearing about how some of the firefighters who survived after the tumble. They said that they were many many stories up when the building collapsed, and yet they left the scene shaken and injured, but nothing too serious. Sometimes that stuff just happens. Also, what classifies as a miracle? There are people who throw the word around a whole bunch, but never know. hmmm

[GUNWOUNDS]

yes quite amazing! I dont really think it was a direct touch from God, but it could have been. Most likely it is just one of those strange quirks in life. I remmeber hearing about how some of the firefighters who survived after the tumble. They said that they were many many stories up when the building collapsed, and yet they left the scene shaken and injured, but nothing too serious. Sometimes that stuff just happens. Also, what classifies as a miracle? There are people who throw the word around a whole bunch, but never know. hmmm

How would you define a miracle? I suppose the virgin birth would be one of course.  This is just so death defying i was flabbergasted to say the least. 

Webster defines a miracle as :  "an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs".

Maybe six bullets in a row not penetrating your skull isnt a miracle... but its pretty close.

[Acriku]

yes quite amazing! I dont really think it was a direct touch from God, but it could have been. Most likely it is just one of those strange quirks in life. I remmeber hearing about how some of the firefighters who survived after the tumble. They said that they were many many stories up when the building collapsed, and yet they left the scene shaken and injured, but nothing too serious. Sometimes that stuff just happens. Also, what classifies as a miracle? There are people who throw the word around a whole bunch, but never know. hmmm

When something good happens to you, it's a miracle and God intervened to make it happen. When something bad happens to you, it was your fault, not God's.

;)

[GUNWOUNDS]

When something good happens to you, it's a miracle and God intervened to make it happen. When something bad happens to you, it was your fault, not God's.

;)

Well it depends on the magnitude of the "good".  Obviously the more astronomically good it gets the more likely it will be attributed to God.  If i win a 5 dollar football bet i wouldnt call that God... but if someone shot me 6 times in the head and bounced off ... i would be going to church the next day.

[TMA_1]

Man, the christians you meet sound like they have absolutely no self esteem, acriku! ;)

It isnt their fault by the way, it was the fault of Adam! hehe (quite true, but felt it funny to say.)

[lowzeewee]

Low-quality bullets that can't punch through a paper bag to save their lives.

[Darth Kwisatz]

Sounds like the work of the Wachowski Bros to me.

[Acriku]

Low-quality bullets that can't punch through a paper bag to save their lives.

such a thing is probably common in Brazil, especially the ghetto areas.

I'm amaze it took us this long before somebody made a Matrix reference... DARTH  :P

Hey tma, I'm met my share of catholics and boy do they look like they have no self-esteem. They are so unworthy, they are so small and insignificant worshippers of the Almighty. Gets depressing after a while  :(

[TMA_1]

The world is a pretty awesome and terrible place. It's power and great evil leave all of us sensitive enough to feel many terrible things. In some this trait is felt as guilt. Some leave a faith system simply because of this. To me though there is a greater way, just havent found it yet. I still believe though that it is through Christ. Believe me, some of my friends see this as foolish. Not a few have extremely bitter thoughts of the concept of God. I am not unaware of other perceptions of reality. This is why it can be a real battle!

It wasent a miracle, just a fluke. A miracle is done intentionally to be known as a miracle. There is no ambiguity about it.

[Acriku]

Therefore miracles could not exist, since God would not want definitive or clear evidence of his existence. Right?

[GUNWOUNDS]

can someone move this back into PRP.....

 The virgin birth was a miracle... but that doesnt show clear definitive evidence of His existence.  As it obviously wasnt documented in a way that is irrefutable to someone such as yourself.  So your statement doesnt hold up.  Miraculous events can exist and not give definitive or clear evidence of his existence to the masses.  Faith is still needed.  Even for miracles.

[Acriku]

can someone move this back into PRP.....

oh and God owuld only allow miracles to exist if they wouldnt show clear or definitive evidence of His existence.  The virgin birth was a miracle... but that doesnt show clear definitive evidence of His existence.  As it obviously wasnt documented in a way that is irrefutable to someone such as yourself.  So your statement doesnt hold up.  Miraculous events can exist and not give definitive or clear evidence of his existence to the masses.  Faith is still needed.  Even for miracles.

Um, this was in response to TMA's saying that miracles were done to be known as an actual miracle, with no ambiguity. Pay attention  :P

[GUNWOUNDS]

Um, this was in response to TMA's saying that miracles were done to be known as an actual miracle, with no ambiguity. Pay attention  :P

Ah well i disagree with him partly... because there is ambiguity for those who only know of the miracle from hearsay.  There is no ambiguity for those directly involved, true, but for later generations that isnt enough to prevent any and all ambiguity.

[Acriku]

Ah ok. Even so, to the people directly involved, they cannot have any faith in God because they have a miracle done by God right in front of them. Where do they lie in God's plan?

[GUNWOUNDS]

Ah ok. Even so, to the people directly involved, they cannot have any faith in God because they have a miracle done by God right in front of them. Where do they lie in God's plan?

Yes, I guess you are referring to people like Moses, Elijah, etc... they had such intimate contact with God that faith wasnt an issue really. 

I think they are chosen by God to strengthen other people's faith, and to give that person the ability to lead others better due to having unshakeable belief in God and having received any informtion personally  (such as disciples) . 

[Dunenewt]

Yes, I guess you are referring to people like Moses, Elijah, etc... they had such intimate contact with God that faith wasnt an issue really.   

But according to my friend, they also have an intimate contact with Allah...

[GUNWOUNDS]

But according to my friend, they also have an intimate contact with Allah...

When i say intimate i mean audible voices, shining manifestations, etc.  You can have a close relationship with God that isnt miraculous, by feeling that He is directing your life thru your conscience, etc.  But what i am referring to is "Moses seeing Burning Bush" miraculous type intimate relationships.

[Dunenewt]

I mean Moses et al had a close relationship with Allah.

[GUNWOUNDS]

I mean Moses et al had a close relationship with Allah.

The Hebrew word for deity, El (אל) or Elōah (אלוה, rarely אלה), was used as an Old Testament synonym for Yahweh (יהוה), which is the proper name for God according to the Tanakh. The Aramaic word for God is אלהא Elāhā (Biblical Aramaic) and ܐܠܗܐ Alāhā (Syriac), which comes from the same Proto-Semitic word (*ʾil-) as the Arabic and Hebrew terms; Jesus is described in Mark 15:34 as having used the word on the cross, with the ending meaning "my", when saying, "My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?" (transliterated in Greek as ἐλωι elō-i). One of the earliest surviving translations of the word into a foreign language is in a Greek translation of the Shahada, from 86-96 AH (705-715 AD), which translates it as ὁ θεος μονος (ho theos monos) [6], literally "the lone god".

Each race has their own racial specific linguistic name to call Him by.  Moses et al. had a close relationship with God, this the abrahamic religions agree on.  The characteristics of this God (trinity?, etc) may be debated but that's an issue on its own... it has no bearing on Moses' et al relationship with aforementioned God.

Guns

[TMA_1]

"Therefore miracles could not exist, since God would not want definitive or clear evidence of his existence. Right?"

I'm a dispensationalist Acriku, so mind the dispensations. :)