A strange question

[3ngel]

I was wondering... we all take it for granted the phrase

"A man one day will come, the Kwisatz Aderach..." etc etc...

But who said this propechy? And why?

This is (obviously) not written anywhere, so hipothesys?

I think it would be funny to think on :)

[Timenn]

The Bene Gesserit infiltrated the Fremen by sending Reverend Mothers to them. They told the Fremen their Lisan al-Gaib would be their Kwisatz Haderach. The Kwisatz Haderach would be the end of a millenia-long breeding line of the Bene Gesserit.

The Bene Gesserit did this in order to get control over the Fremen, this worked only partially because the sisters they sent didn't come back (they converted to Fremen)

[TMA_1]

Totally Timenn..

I suggest reading about the Missionaria Protectiva, 3ngle. This should help you to understand. :)

[Timenn]

Missionaria Protectiva, that was the name I was looking for. Thanks.

[SpiceGuid]

An important aspect is the Lisan al-Gaib & his mother are said to be fremen without learning to be.

That puts much pressure on Paul & Jessica as their lives depend on their ability to be presciently fremens. Otherwise they would be killed as imposters.

[MrFlibble]

Notwithstanding their excellent skills and training, Paul and Jessica still depended on uncontrollable factors (i.e. "luck"), like in the episode when Jessica obtains the crys from Shadout Mapes, and she has a "lucky guess" with the "Maker", not even knowing what meaning this word has for the Fremen.

[3ngel]

Well, back to the topic.

I know about Missionaria Protectiva. But my question was about the very same concept of Kwisatz Haderach. In the sense, from what comes from the same concept of Kwisatz?

How BG can know that a Kwisatz "can see where we cannot"? I mean, a Kwisatz was never known or encountered (except by Tleilaxu, but many times later and that's another question), so how can they know what he could or couldn't do?

[MrFlibble]

I guess that the Bene Gesserit have accumulated a vast knowledge base on human possibilities and how to achieve/expand them via genetic combinations. In the course of their centuries-spanning breeding program, they have probably learned a lot, and could predict the possibility of a Kwisatz Haderach without encountering any real one. In fact, a KH is not unlike a BG Reverend Mother, albeit far more powerful.

[chatfsh]

I for one have often wondered why the ultimate Bene Gesserit, the Kwisatz Haderach, had to be a male.  I mean here

[MrFlibble]

I for one have often wondered why the ultimate Bene Gesserit, the Kwisatz Haderach, had to be a male.

The Kwisatz Haderach is not only described as a "male Reverend Mother", but also as an "ultimate Mentat". In Chapterhouse: Dune, it is mentioned that BG adepts could not excel in Mentat training because a Mentat must be free from any dependencies, and BGs could never completely rid of the loyalty to the Sisterhood.

[TMA_1]

I for one have often wondered why the ultimate Bene Gesserit, the Kwisatz Haderach, had to be a male.  I mean here

[3ngel]

Regarding why KH must be male, i think is a more simple question. I explain.

It's a biological-sensation difference. We know that generally to a man correspond

a kind of "logical" view of the world, while on a female a "sentimental" view of

the world. In other words, man is more "rational", female is more "emotional".

And BG are not exception to this, at the opposite they had to suppress emotion

'cause they know the emotions, can damage then. Now if we take this basic concept

and put it on the BG high/verydeep plane, we can understand why emotion is so

dangereous to them. Take for example the "abomination". Leto as far we know is

the only who was able to "win" againsts the abomination. And this because he

was able to "rationalize" the process to such a way he understood he had to

do compromise with the "first ancestor". He did this, because he totally

flew away from the subject he was trying to understand, he completely lost

the contact, he was able to totally be un-feeling. And this was possible because

he was a man. No woman would ever be able to be so un-feeling.

And now we extend this concept to the KH being. We know that a Qwisatz has

practically, and IS practically the entire universe, every essence, everything.

If we think what can be, to be like this, we can understand how much force is

needed not be inglobed and totally blown away by this overhelming state. Only

a possibily strong rational being like a male can fight all this.

A woman would be completely burnt by the sensations brought by being a KH.

We can say that being a KH is like to be an abomination to the nth factor.

And we know that BG fear to be abomination. You can imagine why they fear to

be KH.

[chatfsh]

Is the answer really that complicated?  Frank Herbert never really elaborated on why the KH had to be a male.  Honestly, I don

[Egeides]

Here's a pssibility.

Paul had some ideals and wished to get to such ideals (ideals of freedom, etc etc.). Leto II was an absolute imperial hive-mind. Basically, both were "totally rational" (~full power), but Leto II was totally pragmatic: he had no ideal which did not come from experience (no ideals of how it "should" be, only what it actually is). He used only experience, not rational-creation ideals.

exemple:

Someone mentioned Leto II compromising with another ancester. He is pragmatist to the point of willingly give a part of his soul... kind of. And of course to the point of engineering a whole bunch of holocausts for his plan.

Basic ideas can always be explored in detail, so here goes:

In the world, it is like saying that things are entirely pragmatic so any perfect plan will be perfectly pragmatist. And therefore any perfect ruler pursuing such a plan as well. It is essentially survivalist; instead of being about "using our minds to find what is the ideal to strive for", it is "using our empirical data to figure out how to get the best odds". Two opposite stances: total liberalism, total conservatism; total induction, total deduction; some might say totally extreme Plato, totally extreme Aristotle (or otherwise in other cultures).

(Wikipedia has deductive and inductive reasoning for whoever wants)