Vanguard: SoH

[bryorama]

Has anyone looked into this game? I am currently really, really anxious to get my hands on this game when its released. Right now I am currently beta, er yeah. Shh. If you haven't heard of VG, check out this site: www.vanguardsoh.com. The graphics are really amazing, and the gameplay so far the greatest thing that has ever happened to me in an MMORPG/RPG.

[Cyborg]

It looks and sounds very good. Are you playing the beta?

[bryorama]

Yes. Noone is really supposed to know, but yeah.

[GUNWOUNDS]

do you have any other MMO experience so as to be a good judge of mechanics and gameplay.  Just curious.  Also i would hope this turns out to be a great game.... i really need a good hack N slash & magic game that is more like Oblivion and not like WoW.

[Dracis]

Well, this is my first post, and I should probably keep my mouth shut, but considering I'm in the beta too, I had to say something.

Vanguard is not all that great. It's my point of view, and you can only truely judge by playing the game itself.

First off, Vanguard looks, and feels alot like EQ2. I'm not sure how much of a hand SOE has a hand in it, as they are technically only the distributors of Vanguard, but I don't trust many of the big names once they get their hands on any game.

Secondly, there is nothing truely inovative about Vanguard. It just seems like the same ole ho hum fantasy MMORPG. Ok, yes, you can sail a ship, which is different, at least for me. But nothing truely revolutionary either.

As far as my MMO experience, I've played the original EQ, EQ2, SWG, Saga of Ryzom, World of Warcraft, Eve, Dark Age of Camelot, Dark and Light, DDO, Guild Wars, Roma Victor, etc, etc, etc...

So I've been around a bit.

I've said this probably on every forum I've ever posted on, and if you see Dracis there, it's probably me, "If you're not sure about the game, and you can't accurately judge by the community responces, then wait until there is a trail offer".

Plain and simple.

[Cyborg]

I dislike EQ2, so that was good to know.

Thanks. Saves me a lot of hassle.

[GUNWOUNDS]

i didnt play EQ2.

I've only played SWG for 1.5 years and then EVE for 2.5 years.  So 4 years of MMO experience for me.

Cyborg could you elaborate as to why you didnt like EQ2.  I never picked it up due to lack of PvP game mechanic.  But just curious as to why you didnt enjoy it.

Also, Dracis can you give a list of pros/likes and cons/dislikes for Vangaurd.  Seeing as how you and I have both played SWG and EVE, i maybe can get a better understanding of it without having to plunk 50 bucks into it.  And i dont want to make the same mistakes i made with SWG and EVE.  SWG, altho i had fun with early on (before horrible nerfs) i wished i hadnt wasted time on , which made me miss out on the first year of EVE which is an MMO that i truly love.  So SWG is a game i wish i hadnt wasted time on and EVE is a game i wish i had started earlier.

So i dont want to make either mistake with Vanguard.  I dont want to start it if i am gonna regret it..... and i dont want to delay if i am gonna love it  :P.  I guess you could start by talking about the :

1.) Melee Attack system in general

2.) Aggro management

3.) Magic system in general

4.) Trading system

5.) Crafting system

6.) PvP Mechanics

7.) PvE Mechanics

8.) Leveling (Caps?, Easy/Hard?, Perks?, God status like WoW or Still a Mortal as in EVE?)

9.) New diplomacy system?

10.) Balance of classes (is there a flavor of the month?)

11.) Fun to Group with others....  XP distribution??

Thats all i can think of for now.   Feel free to reply at your leisure.

Guns

[Cyborg]

Why I didn't like EQ2:

* I disliked the graphics. This was mostly because I had been presented with screenshots that looked much better than what the game actually did. It was not my graphics card that scaled down the graphics, because mine's good enough. The graphics was also too cold and blunt to me.

* The animations in the game weren't good enough, or fluid enough, if you like. Games like WoW and EVE far surpass this.

* GUI was OK, but just that.

* The whole world seemed too synthetic, and I couldn't get the right gaming feeling I get from a good game.

To answer your points (I don't even care to go in detail here because I despise the game):

The game is "just another MMORPG" in mostly every way. It has nothing special to offer, and if you've played MMORPGs before, you'll have no problems understanding the game mechanics instantly.

Those are some of the reasons why I dislike EQ2. It's all subjective, though, and you're welcome to try the game yourself. However, I warn you that your time invested will most likely feel wasted.

[bryorama]

1.) Melee Attack system in general

2.) Aggro management

3.) Magic system in general

4.) Trading system

5.) Crafting system

6.) PvP Mechanics

7.) PvE Mechanics

8.) Leveling (Caps?, Easy/Hard?, Perks?, God status like WoW or Still a Mortal as in EVE?)

9.) New diplomacy system?

10.) Balance of classes (is there a flavor of the month?)

11.) Fun to Group with others....  XP distribution??

Hey Gunwounds. I'll give you the rundown here.

I'd like to first start by saying that I've played World of Warcraft for 2 years, and this game definitely puts WoW to shame. I've also played Eve Online, and found it fun. Other MMORPG experience includes: EQ2, EQ:OA, Guild Wars, and City of Heroes. Some RPG experience includes: Neverwinter Nights (all expansions), Oblivion, and quite a few more games. I'm an avid RPG/MMORPGer but I love my FPS's (such as BF2 and COD2).

Here are my reponses to your list:

(Keep in mind everything is still in testing stages and is subject to change.)

1. Melee Attack System in General

The Melee system is the typical melee system in most games. You have auto-attack, but there are obviously melee skills. I find the melee system fair as it is realistic. I don't really know how much more there is to the melee system that what I have explained. Its just your typical melee system as there is in WoW, EQ2, ect. For classes that can use a bow, it works where you shoot one shot then the mob comes at you and you melee, unless you kite the mob. I'm not sure how rangers go as far as having a pet goes and I'm not sure how pets hold aggro if they do at all.

2. Aggro Management

I have no idea about this as I haven't created an aggro-holding class yet. Its my best bet as far as I've seen that there are aggro increasing and reducing abilities that allow classes to hold aggro better than others, for example Warriors holding aggro better than sorcerers. =) But this is quite obvious. The aggro system seems pretty typical as well, but I don't have a vast experience of the game as far as bosses go, ect.

3. Magic System in General

I've only made two characters so far (a rogue to 10, and a cleric to 2 (8 blacksmithing)), but as far as I know, the magic system is better than any game I've seen so far. (See: WoW) You can move while casting (realistic), your casting bar can be lowered from being hit, but there are some kinks involving alot of spells in general, such as some spells being completely useless, besides cooldown fillers.

[bryorama]

3. Magic System in General

I've only made two characters so far (a rogue to 10, and a cleric to 2 (8 blacksmithing)), but as far as I know, the magic system is better than any game I've seen so far. (See: WoW) You can move while casting (realistic), your casting bar can be lowered from being hit, but there are some kinks involving alot of spells in general, such as some spells being completely useless, besides cooldown fillers.

4. Trading System

There are no such things as auction houses as of yet. (thank god, more immersion.) There are chat channels for every area called the auction channel though. Its hard to say how the game will do economically, as I really have no idea how much things generally cost and how easily it is to make money in the big picture. Overall, I like how money is earned and how you have to be economically smart.

5. Crafting System

Yesss. One of my favorite parts of the game. The crafting system is fun, AND you can gain levels in it so you feel like you are getting somewhere. This is 10x better than clicking "Create All" in WoW and going AFK for 20 minutes to craft. It actually ivolves you being there and problem solving, while using crafting skill points effectively. I'll explain: You can increase the grade of your item with certain crafting skills, but they cost craft points. (You have 2000/2000 at the start of every craft.) Each skill costs skill points, including the skills to make the item. But there are skills on the side that increase the items grade from D to A. You have to conserve and use your points wisely. Its quite fun.

6. PvP Mechanics

This is not implemented in the game as far as I know so: No comment.

7. PvE Mechanics

The PvE Mechanics still have quite a few kinks that need to be worked out, that they will obviously not be allowed in release. Some of these include mobs running away from you infinitely and never de-aggroing that require a death or it to be killed. Kind of hard when a mob runs into a million mobs but doesn't aggro them, but you will. Overall, the PvE mechanics are clean and there are no major bugs or problems.

[bryorama]

8. Leveling

The cap is 50 right now. Rumor has it it will be increased at some point. I can say leveling is 10x more fun than in WoW or any other MMORPG. Not sure if its easier or harder, but its more fun. I guess that makes it easier. People are obviously better when they are max level than players of lower level, and they are obviously better when they commit the time to a guild to down hard bosses, ect.

9. Diplomacy

The new diplomacy system is quite interesting. You get cards (skills), and you play a 'card game' against an opponent, kind of like an argument. It can be used for bribes, reputation, ect. Cards are called things like "Strong Retort" but I really have no idea, I haven't messed around with it too much.

10. Balance of Class

There will obviously be classes that can beat other classes, outlast other classes, outheal other classes, classes that will dominate in PVP with burst damage, classes that dominate classes in end-game at steady DPS, and classes that level faster than others. Not much more I can say than that.

11. Grouping With Others

I grouped with my 2 other friends in beta the whole time, so I can say the exp is really fair and its extremely fun to group.

There you go guns.

[bryorama]

I'd also like to add that the graphics are FRICKING AMAZING if you have a good computer.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Thanks for the in depth response.  Hopefully, more wil be revealed as the beta continues and you can keep us posted.  Its unfortunate that it doesnt have PvP mechanics, but it is understandable considering the nightmare SWG went thru trying to balance PvP (which they never accomplished, and hence the game died).  Hopefully tho they have a plan that will introduce meaningful, balanced, and fun PvP.  Dracis if you have anything to add, feel free to.

Guns

[Dracis]

I just restarted playing the beta after I posted that comment.

I will admit, it is a graphically nice game, but graphics aren't everything.

As far as game play.

1. Melee is handled point and click or via your keyboard. One thing I noticed, that unlike like other games i have played, if you get in front of your opponent, or they get behind you, you can't attack them. There is a targeting system, so I'm not sure if this is working as intended, or if it's a bug.

2.As far as aggro management, I never had 2 aggro mobs attack me at the same time, but the targetting system does change color. One thing I didn't like is how damage is shown for your character. It is shown up by your health bar, and not any where near your character. This may not be a problem for some, but I play on a 27in wide screen monitor, and sometimes I don't get to catch everything.

3. The magic system is just like every other system I have tried. As does the entire skill system. Some of the spell effects are cool looking, but nothing incredible beyond that.

* A quick comment on the entire skill system. I have tried 3 different characters, in 3 different skill sets, and everything seems very linear as far as skills. There is literally no choice, as far as I have seen as to what skills you get. I will admit I haven't had a huge chance to play as I am a game developer myself and don't always have the time to play games that much any more.

4. As I said before, I haven't played all that much, but I agree with Rebirth, there is no general acution houses, which can be good, depending on how large the server is, and bad. Alot of items, like armor and weapons can be looted, all of the ones I have looted have different stats, benefitting one attribute or another. So i'm sure there will be a definite loot economy if things stay as they are.

5. Crafting, unfortunately I haven't had a chance to try it yet.

6. There is no PvP in the game at all at the moment.

7. PvE system is ok. There are pleny of wild mobs running about. I'll tie this into something you didn't ask about, which is quests. in doing alot of the starter quests, which are pretty straight forward, go kill this, go collect that, return to NPC. There are bugs, like Rebirth mentioned, but nothing huge.

8. Leveling is fairly easy. I've only gotten to level 8 on one character, but it went fairly quickly, following the quests.

9. Diplomacy, I haven't tried this yet either.

10. Balance of the classes. Well, I can see advatages for each class i have tried, Necromancer, rogue, and Dread knight. So, at the moment, I can't see any imbalance issues, but someone always finds something. One thing to note, any real balance is an illision. I mean that sometimes, developers spend way to much time on balance, and not enough time on anything else.

11. As I only get to play in odd hours, I haven't been in any groups as of yet.

Over all, Vanguard isn't a bad game. But, at least to me, there is nothing to make it stand out either. I guess that's the problem. As a developer myself, we're still working on our first full title, you look for more that just the usual ho hum style stuff. You look for innovations and new ideas. While there are parts of Vanguard I haven't yet explored and even though I'm going to play it a bit more, as of right now, I wouldn't purchase it.

On a side note, I also won a beta invite to LotRO and am curreently doiwnloading that. If you want to know about that one, I'll be happy to post my first impressions after I've played it for a bit.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Thanks

[bryorama]

Thanks for the in depth response.  Hopefully, more wil be revealed as the beta continues and you can keep us posted.  Its unfortunate that it doesnt have PvP mechanics, but it is understandable considering the nightmare SWG went thru trying to balance PvP (which they never accomplished, and hence the game died).  Hopefully tho they have a plan that will introduce meaningful, balanced, and fun PvP.  Dracis if you have anything to add, feel free to.

Guns

You got me wrong, man.

I meant that there is supposed to be PvP, and very good PvP, its mechanics and rulesets aren't implemented yet.

[Dracis]

You got me wrong, man.

I meant that there is supposed to be PvP, and very good PvP, its mechanics and rulesets aren't implemented yet.

That's correct, there will be pvp, eventually in Vanguard. As I understand it, there may be RP'ing servers and PvP servers. Although that may have changed.

[bryorama]

That's correct, there will be pvp, eventually in Vanguard. As I understand it, there may be RP'ing servers and PvP servers. Although that may have changed.

Correct. Different servers with different rulesets.

[Harkdawg]

I at some point was also really looking forward to SoH, however ... it really has no PvP, nor is it at any focus in the Game.

And me being a hungry PvP person i discarded V:SoH.

Having played WoW for past 7-8 months i finally gave it up, closed my subscription. I got to say i liked WoW, but there are also sooooo many BEEFS i have with it and Blizzard is not takeing theyre game towards the direction i was hoping.

WoW is too goofy, its too "Controlled" , too instanced and too cartoonish most of the time.

Hell, i wanted WoW to be more of a FFA style PvP game, Big raids to major Citys and good rewards in PvP. THe PvE part should be a minor sidekick in the game, however its all PvE and only PvP in instaces ... i did play on PvP server, but the world PvP is basically nonexistent.

I wanted to raid Citys and kill everything on the Opposite faction, like in previous Warcraft games, its PvP , races fight eachother, not a Dungeon Monsters to get new items.... In an Instance

As i said, WoW is too "Controlled" by Blizzard,  they dont allow razeing a City to the Ground or kill all the opposite faction members. Too "Instanced" ... Raid or Die ... people just raid Instances. Too "Childish" ,its soo friggen contained enviroment that no real War could wage, its too Emo, like little children playing ....

But i have to say, i do like RPGMMORPG Genre, its quite fun i must admit and thats why im waiting certain another MMORPG to come wich is by the looks exactly what i want, im talking about WARHAMMER:Online ofcourse.

Since my computer is sooo outdated i cant play anything really on it anymore, but i wont buy new one until Warhammer is close to release sometime in 2007 so i can buy better computer cheaper ! :)

[Harkdawg]

Meh, ive been watching some small Vanguard clips latewly and getting more info on the game and i must say im pretty interested, its looking really SOLID !

I think ill acctually get it, heck, there is still a year or more to Warhammer anyway and Vanguard is due to Release at worst in February !!!!

I like how its not soooo effin childish like WoW and the complexity of the customisation for the Charachter you can do is incredible!!!!

Though i havent seen much of the actual combat system and Class specific abilites, but the much they have on the video clips looks good.

[GUNWOUNDS]

when you do get it.. be sure to post your character name on here so we can do some cooperative pwnage

[Harkdawg]

Well, you are in US and im in EU, dunno if we can play on same server

[GUNWOUNDS]

can  i get an update on this game?  havent heard much about it.  I'm realy looking forward to Quake Wars ET so i'll probably skip over this game.... but if anything radical has changed and this game is a must have.... post a reply here.

[Atomic Mitten]

You guys need to check out SoE's Planetside Aftershock, a little known game but fantsatic it's an MMOFPS

There are 3 Empires to choose from and it has quite a steep learning curve, I have been playing it for over 2 years !

The graphics are awesome, but be warned it is totally addictive.

[Dracis]

can  i get an update on this game?  havent heard much about it.  I'm realy looking forward to Quake Wars ET so i'll probably skip over this game.... but if anything radical has changed and this game is a must have.... post a reply here.

I quit playing the beta. It just was literally the same ole thing for me, and I just lost interest. I felt the same about the LotRO as well. Both kind of blah, in my opinion, but that's me.