The Complex Nature of Islam (and it's misunderstanding in the West).

[TMA_1]

Islam has a rich history. Of all of the world's religions, it is the one I least understand.

The reason being is this. Though it is strikingly different from the other monotheistic religions, it still has a worldview that is far from the almost existential philosophies of the East. Because of this there are so many sects and dogmas in Islam. To understand Islam is to delve into 1400 years of rich history.

It seems that the West has little understanding of Islam. It is easy to see this in American Media. When watching the news, you will hear of two kinds of Islam. Moderate Islam, and Fanatical Islam. To me, this distinction is dangerous. From what I understand, the invisible line between these too strange distinctions is totally a fabrication of Western perception. I guess what I am saying is that because people in America depend on the television, and in some cases the internet, to get their info, that there is a misunderstanding of the religion of Islam. If the West in general cannot understand the history of these people, then we are doomed to never make a headway towards peace.

Speaking of this ignorance, I for one am guilty.lol Any of you guys out there knowledgable when it comes to Islam, or any sect of Islam? I would love to hear personal info about this faith. I am reading about it right now, but I would also like to hear a more personal testament about the faith.

[Edric O]

I also can't say I know much about Islam, but it is my understanding that there are different schools of thought within Islam regarding the relationship that Muslims should have with non-Muslims. What the West calls "radical Islam" usually means the Wahhabi sect that is dominant in Saudi Arabia (and present to some degree in all Muslim countries). The Wahhabis believe that non-Muslims should not be allowed to live in Muslim society or on any lands that were occupied by Muslims in the past. This is at odds with traditional interpretations of the Qu'ran, which emphasize hospitality and state that non-Muslims - especially People of the Book (Christians and Jews) - should be given special citizenship and legal protection in Muslim countries, as long as they pay a special tax.

[Terror]

Well, if you look at the Muslim religion closely, it is hardly any different from the original christian religion. The difference with Muslims to most christians though is that they take the rules very directly and seriously.

Take for example the way of how people are supposed to get clothed. To most 'true' Muslims, their hair and body should not be visible to public. Only the hands and face may be shown. Looking at the christians up to like.. 50 to a 100 years ago, the same rules existed. Females had to cover their hair, wear long skirts and pretty much the only thing visible was their face and their hands. Similarities like these can be found on many different aspects. In the end you'll find that Christianity and Islam are not that different at all. They believe in pretty much the same thing. The same God, many of the same stories and they also acknowledge Jesus and are waiting for him.

However, because they take the Islam rules so seriously and directly, I think it is difficult for them to live with the 'western' society where atheism and 'fallen' Christians have the upper hand. Not only that, but these Europeans and Americans also try to force their rules, believes of freedom (what is freedom) on others, including muslims. And they realy wouldn't try so hard to get power in the middle east if there weren't so many resources to get.

However, the true problems of the muslims is, that their people are so divided. Most terroristical acts are described as being radical muslim whereas they are realy only cultural. A person from Egypt differs so much from someone from Afghanistan. In the past, the Islam united them and they were realy one. Since colonialism though, borders were drawn and countries were forged. Also multiple population groups were forced to live in a single country. Afghanistan for instance has 3 or 4 major groups. This causes internal strife and problems which reflect upon the outer world as Muslim aggression and Muslims terrorist activity.

A Muslim friend of mine hates all terroristical attacks that are said to be in the name of 'Allah'. He finds it an insult to him and the Islam. The problem though is that western Media makes everyone believe that terrorists are indeed spokesman of the Islam, while in fact, they are merely doing this for personal/cultural reasons. The best thing for the Muslims would be to stop the internal strife and once again stand as one. The US and Europe however will probably see this as a major threat so they will not easily give them a chance to do so. And by actions like, selling weapons to populations like the Taliban (and giving them minor training) they keep this internal strife alive and the Middle East will be a big mess for many more years.

[erjin999]

Divide the Muslims, conquer the oil, anyone ?

They would prbably be bad enough at internal fueding if the west wasnt busy helping them do it for their own reasons...maybe not just the west, maybe I should say external parties...

[Edric O]

I split off the whole debate about Judaism and Christianity so this topic can get back to a discussion of Islam.

Anyway, the thing with Islam is despite it being old, it's still comparatively new compared to Judaism and later Christianity.  Christianity was in the same place 800-900 years ago.  So while things don't look overly positive right now on the whole, if all hell doesn't break loose, Islam is likely on the very brink of much reformation.

I disagree. Religions don't follow a rigid time schedule that says they have to do X at Y number of years after their founding. Islam is not a mirror image of Christianity, and there's no reason for it to reform the same way Christianity did.

Besides, Christianity has almost reformed itself out of existence, and I don't think Muslims are too eager to follow that example.

Take for example the way of how people are supposed to get clothed. To most 'true' Muslims, their hair and body should not be visible to public. Only the hands and face may be shown. Looking at the christians up to like.. 50 to a 100 years ago, the same rules existed. Females had to cover their hair, wear long skirts and pretty much the only thing visible was their face and their hands.

Muslims see their dress code as a matter of modesty - Muslim women cover their bodies for the same reason Western women cover their breasts. Muslim men also have a dress code, but they are required to cover less than women. Many Muslims see Western society as decadent, godless, greedy, materialistic and sex-obsessed.

And let's face it, they do have a point.

[Caid Ivik]

People, you talk much about outer significants and avoid the meaning, which is to deepen the relation between the soul and God. The muslim way is hard and temptates many believers to make it easier, but you shouldn't despise them, thinking you are on a better way, but believe in your own and live it to bear testimony for them. Avoid the prejudices and stay alert against ignorance - for what else may irritate you? As the Prophet says:

Repel evil with that which is best: We are well acquainted with the things they say.

سلام

[TMA_1]

hmm I dont think anyone who posted here had any intention of saying that their way is better. In fact this thread was posted for the opposite reason. Their path is a hard one, but it suffers from an extreme approach to legalism, which is just as dangerous as too much of a libertine agenda. This is why secret sins are kept so hidden, and why an overzealous man can feel vindicated for killing innocents.

[Caid Ivik]

Actually, I find the islam, especially its sunni path, a very fruitful teaching. The only problem is when they part the religious and practical life into opposite or hierarchy (sacrifice for the higher future goal). That is even in christianity still a hard question to solve, altough its theological base is - honestly said - much more developed. It is still being solved only on the individual level, it didn't enter the main "frame" of religious teaching. Oriental religions have this at core, on the other hand this allows christians and muslims somewhat more autonomous thinking.

Because of that, you have both pacifists and warmongers under one crescent moon, same could be said about christianity.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Although Jews and Christians will accept each other as being legitimate in conception, both faiths usually regard Islam as a demonic forgery written 600 years later.  In addition, the comments about severe legalism are not unfounded.  Islam is very is ritualistic, legalistic, and action-based.  They do not believe in salvation and rather believe that one earns their place in heaven through actions.  The Arabs are also very arrogant and racist towards the jews and do not give them any credit for the Old Testament.  They believe that it is impossible for Jews to have written the Old Testament before the Qu'ran and state that Arabs were so much more advanced than jews at the time the Qu'ran was written, and therefore it was the jews who stole their holy literature...not the other way around.  They believe that claims of the Old Ttestament being Older are fabricated jewish lies.....which further demonstrates their irrational hatred and irrational thought process.  Arrogance blinding their ability to understand basic facts.  Muslims also are deep into the study of angels and believe there are many different types of angels... some with free will... some without.  Same goes for Demons.  They also believe that God is neither absolutely good nor bad.  But rather uses evil and good to catalyse His Will.  They beleive there is no ultimate responsibility for their actions because God Wills it.  They dont believe in true free will.   Some liberal sects of Islam believe that Islam is not the only way to Heaven, that Christianity and Judaism are also Validated forms of worship.  However these are usually very reformed and liberal muslims which make up a very small minority, but even those in this small minority will still state that jews are lying about being the originators of the God of Abraham, Muslims actually think their religion came first due to arab technological and educational superiority at the time of Mohammed.  Which i believe shows how the entire religion is founded on arrogance and pride.  Instead of Love, meekness, and mercy.  Its quite huomorous that they would attempt to deny that Jews were the originators of the God of Abraham.

[Edric O]

Do you have any evidence that any Muslims actually believe any of the things you say they believe?

And by "evidence", I mean verses from the Qur'an. The Qur'an is the ultimate authority on Islam.

[Mihail]

Do you have any evidence that any Muslims actually believe any of the things you say they believe?

And by "evidence", I mean verses from the Qur'an. The Qur'an is the ultimate authority on Islam.

Yes, I'd like to see these verses hat praise arrogance and state that Islam came before Judaism.

[Caid Ivik]

Let the Prophet speak for himself, the Word he brought for Israelis:

If you do good, you will do good for your own souls, and if you do evil, it shall be for them. So when the second promise came (We raised another people) that they may bring you to grief and that they may enter the mosque as they entered it the first time, and that they might destroy whatever they gained ascendancy over with utter destruction.

It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, and if you again return (to disobedience) We too will return (to punishment), and We have made hell a prison for the unbelievers.

إِنْ أَحْسَنتُمْ أَحْسَنتُمْ لِأَنفُسِكُمْ وَإِنْ أَسَأْتُمْ فَلَهَا فَإِذَا جَاءَ وَعْدُ الْاءخِرَةِ لِيَسُءوا وُجُوهَكُمْ وَلِيَدْخُلُوا الْمَسْجِدَ كَمَا

دَخَلُوهُ أَوَّلَ مَرَّةٍ وَلِيُتَبِّرُوا مَا عَلَوْا تَتْبِيرًا

عَسَى رَبُّكُمْ أَنْ يَرْحَمَكُمْ وَإِنْ عُدْتُمْ عُدْنَا وَجَعَلْنَا جَهَنَّمَ لِلْكَفِرِينَ حَصِيرًا

[erjin999]

erm, what does that mean, entirely ? I get some of it... :-