Origins of the Dune houses/communities

[Davidu]

Wow... My respects my friend!

Yes, you are right, after the bulgarian settelement in Moesia and after the Second Vlacho-Bulgarian Tzarate (led by Petru (Peter) and Asan, two noblemen from North of the Danube) was crushed by the Bysantines, the proto-romanian line split as the vlachs in present-day Bulgaria went either North( over the Danube) or South.

Aromanians inhabited large areas in Northern Greece, and Epir (Albania).

After Islam was addopted by the albanian aristocracy they exterminated most of the aromanian population in Epir.

About the numbers, well, as far as I know there are about 1.500.000 aromanians. They are, however, dispersed in Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, and the Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia.

There is another branch settled in the Meglen area. They are known as Megleno-romanians.

There is one western branch: Istro-romanians in the Istrian peninsula (Croatia) that were setteld there in the 15th century by the hungarians. Today they have almost dissapeared.

And the most sensational branch is one that dates back when the Bysantine Empire controlled Egypt.

As a monastery (I don't recall it's name) was build in the Sinai peninsula its Bysantine founders moved a vlach village from Moesia to Sinai to serve the monastery's needs. What is extremely interesting is that even if they lost their language ( by 1900 this language was lost for about 25-50 years already) they still recall they are vlachs. I'm afraid they will soon dissapear.

Why did I bid my respects to you at the top of the post? Because very few people know of these splinter branches.

So, in return I must tell you I know of the greeks in southern Italy that still use the greek language and greek alphabet.

[Ellinas]

Wow... My respects my friend!

Yes, you are right, after the bulgarian settelement in Moesia and after the Second Vlacho-Bulgarian Tzarate (led by Petru (Peter) and Asan, two noblemen from North of the Danube) was crushed by the Bysantines, the proto-romanian line split as the vlachs in present-day Bulgaria went either North( over the Danube) or South.

Aromanians inhabited large areas in Northern Greece, and Epir (Albania).

After Islam was addopted by the albanian aristocracy they exterminated most of the aromanian population in Epir.

About the numbers, well, as far as I know there are about 1.500.000 aromanians. They are, however, dispersed in Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, and the Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia.

There is another branch settled in the Meglen area. They are known as Megleno-romanians.

There is one western branch: Istro-romanians in the Istrian peninsula (Croatia) that were setteld there in the 15th century by the hungarians. Today they have almost dissapeared.

And the most sensational branch is one that dates back when the Bysantine Empire controlled Egypt.

As a monastery (I don't recall it's name) was build in the Sinai peninsula its Bysantine founders moved a vlach village from Moesia to Sinai to serve the monastery's needs. What is extremely interesting is that even if they lost their language ( by 1900 this language was lost for about 25-50 years already) they still recall they are vlachs. I'm afraid they will soon dissapear.

Why did I bid my respects to you at the top of the post? Because very few people know of these splinter branches.

So, in return I must tell you I know of the greeks in southern Italy that still use the greek language and greek alphabet.

Yes, I forgot to mention the Megleno-romanians. Their number in Greece (Meglena area-north Greece) must be about 10000-15000 today. A website with surveys about the Vlachs that immigrated to Greece is this http://www.vlachs.gr/

As for the Greeks in Southern Italy, most of them are located in Calabria, Salento and Sicily (Magna Graecia region). DNA tests proved their Greek origin, however as time passes more of them get "Italianised". The language they used to spoke is Griko, a Doric Greek dialect with Italian elements, however their children learn only Italian in schools and the people are speaking Griko today are limited. I am afraid that soon they are going to lose their cultular identity - they will just stay Greeks only by DNA.

[Davidu]

That is what is going on all around the world with minorities.

Except the hungarians.

[Ellinas]

That is what is going on all around the world with minorities.

Except the hungarians.

And the Jews, they can keep their traditions. Here we have the Askhenazi Jews who are here for about 2500 years and their faith is the same.

[Davidu]

Well, that is remarkable.

You can pride yourself with the fact that you, the greeks, are the same ( largely) from the begginning.

[rymoah]

Searching in an atlas, I found out that exists a city in Ukraine called Harkov. And, at the time of URSS, it was famous for being an important industrial centre. Maybe the name Harkonnen derives from it...

What do you think?

Rymoah

[Davidu]

There was a huge battle there in WWII.

[MrFlibble]

Nope. Harkonnen is definitely a Finnish name (the -nen suffix), while Har'kov (should be pronounced with a soft r) derives from the cossak name Har'ko, which is diminutive from Hariton (according to Vasmer).

[Davidu]

Diminutive from Hariton? That doesen't sound slavonic.

[MrFlibble]

Which one? Hariton is naturally Greek (

[Davidu]

I don't want to be ignorant, but that word sounds english to me  ;D

[MrFlibble]

Don't forget that English lexis has many borrowings from Latin, Greek (thrgough Latin mostly), French, so words that "sound English" is a very wide category ;)

[Davidu]

I tottaly agree. But it still sounds odd.

[gowachin]

The Bene Gesserit originated from the area somewhere between Mesopotamia and India, I could not conclude the exact location.

I haven't read it in a while, so I hope I remember this correctly.

What I gather from the Encyclopedia, women AND men from the areas you mention had access to Other Memory. At some point, men lost this ability. Women formed primitive organizations to preserve this trait and to see if men would, someday, be able to gain it again. These primitive organizations were spread across the Old World.

Now, when it comes to the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood proper... this organization seems to have been formed in and around Rome during the late Republic/early Empire. Though there were organizations before this time, with variations of the same name, the organization that would last (underground until the Great Revolt) started at this time, in this area. This makes the Bene Gesserit the oldest continuous human organization in history.

The search for men to regain access to Other Memory is what, eventually, turns into the program to create the Kwizatz Haderach. Some proto-Kwizatz Haderachs (called "active-trait males" in the Encyclopedia) were: Alexander the Great, the God-Emperor Augustus, and Jesus. The Roman Emperor Caligula was the first Abomination.

Sorry for the long-winded answer... but I really love the stuff in the Encyclopedia about the BG. With the Sisterhood going back this far... it makes me think of the women throughout history who could have been BG.

The mother (Atia) and wife (Livia) of Augustus; the "three Mary's" associated with Christ; Eleanor of Aquitaine (watch The Lion in Winter w/Hepburn... the essence of BG); Elizabeth I; Eleanor Roosevelt; hell... K. Hepburn, herself... just to name a few.

O.K., I'm done!

[TMA_1]

Some of the major houses have kept to their specific cultures, and some have even kept parts of their early racial identity.

I think mahdi is right though. 20 thousand plus years of human development and expansion, cultural shifting and uplifting, It seems very likely that most humans in the known universe have no racial identity. Some specific groups and cultures maybe, but most dont.

[TMA_1]

Interesting ideas Ellinas.

Though I always felt that the Harkonnen had racial stock from the ancient russians.

Also, I think that after the third mohammed, it changed the face of religion for the entire human race. The warped version of islam that Meometh (not sure if I spelled it right)founded became the religion of the known universe, until the council of ecumenical translators was formed to unify humanity after the great jihad against thinking machines. Even after the unification of various religious sects, the mutated islamic faith seems to have stuck itself out more than any other religion.

I think Frank saw that Islam would be a religion of the future. Obviously it is fiction, but for a man who doesnt believe in any particular religion, it is a pretty wise, albiet pragmatic observation.

[jros83]

I fail to see how it's wise. Islam has so many internal problems. Anyway, it seems a prevelant theme in Dune with the Zenshiite and Zensunnis is that at some point Islam and Bhudism merge. they rever "Buhdallah" and in Machine Crusade sttues to Muhammed and Bhudda are mentioned in a Zenshiite city.