The PSP

[EWS]

Was that comment aimed at me Spectral?  I am not a sony victum.  And when you say that the N64 offered the best graphics at that time, you're actually wrong.  It was the Dreamcast, that offered graphics at that time that were very good.  Infact, I am still amazed at the graphics that mine can come out with.

I agree that the PSP's graphics are not the be all and end all, infact it is quite the opposite.  A game that I actually would go back to would interest me more than a game that look realistic.

Anyway, I bought a DS and haven't bought a PSP.

[Spectral Paladin]

No the comment wasn't aimed at you and I know the n64 hadn't the best graphics compared to other consoles of its time, I 'm talking about its generation in general.

[Spectral Paladin]

PSP outsold

[Kiyouta]

PSP outsold

Owned. Literally.

[Spectral Paladin]

And Nintendo goes even further

[Dragoon Knight]

I resented it when I was called a PSP fanboy.  I posted opinion to begin with, then facts, then a mix of both.  I got tired of arguing about attachments, paying for what you get, quality, etc. because people either outright disagreed or refused to accept some kind of superiority.

Now, however, this entire thread is turning into a "Look How Much Nintendo Are Doing That's Better Than Sony, Look Look LOOK!!" thread.  I don't think I'm the fanboy, here.  If you want to talk about the DS, please make another thread to do so.  Stop trying to belittle the PSP by throwing figures about like they mean something - of course the DS is going to out-sell the PSP; it's cheaper by almost half!  I'm probably going to buy a blue one, just because I can afford it!

And for someone who used the argument "who would want to watch movies on journeys", I ask you this - who would want to play multiplayer games, while eating, in a select few fast food restaurants?  The answer?  Plenty of people would, but not me.  This is where opinion comes into it again - I bought the PSP because I think it's a better console.  In my opinion, it is, and it has the facts to back it up as well.  So does the PSP.  But you don't see me going around listing every single 'victory' or 'loss'.  So please, keep the Nintendo Fanboy stuff to yourself, Spectral Paladin; it looks like the pot was calling the kettle black.

[Spectral Paladin]

I didn't comment, merely posted some news. You opened the thread to discuss the psp, but you aren't putting any psp-related stuff in it  :P

earlier in the thread you asked me to post proof that ds is outselling the psp  ::) ::) ::)

and if the figures you're comparing are quite recent, consider that the DS was released before the PSP before you make any judgements.  Also, where are you getting these figures from?  I'd like to keep an eye on them in the coming weeks. :)

Those figures are after September ended. The most recent you can find and the psp and ds have coexisted in the market for quite some time now.

I admit that the second piece of news is totally irrelevant as it concerns only the ds. I was bored actually. Apologies.

[Dragoon Knight]

Indeed I did; I asked you on Page 1, when the figures said exactly the contrary to what your link does now.  Convenient that you post it now.

And this thread is to discuss the PSP; while this includes comparing it to the DS, it does not include the fanboy attitude you are expressing here.  If I had the time or inclination to go around digging up every article regarding PSP Fanboy-ism, I could counter-act all of your 'figures' digit for digit.  Sales go up and sales go down; try posting a whole view of the article, rather than just summing it up in two words.  It's critical of the DS as well, and by the wording of it, when the PSP starts making more varied games, the DS will start to lose that innovative edge.

[Spectral Paladin]

O boy, the word fanboy must have hurt your feelings quite a bit  :P

Yes the article is critical of the DS as well, which shows I 'm not posting it because I 'm some fanboy and found an article that hails the DS  ::)

It also says exactly what I said in my early posts and you tried to counter (the fact that the psp's lineup is currently worse than the DS's).

The psp was designed to play the knowng game genres. The DS is still able to introduce new ones, and won't lose its innovative edge for quite some time. Sure there was a lot of not-so-good minigames, the whole point of which was to make some use of the DS's features, but now games like Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney are already paving the way for new (or improved) genres.

[Dragoon Knight]

You calling me a fanboy didn't "hurt my feelings", as you put it.  It did, however, annoy me.  For some time now, I've been saying that the PSP is better overall, while the DS is much more innovative and gaming-focused.  Nintendo have always been like that; providing for all the family, while trying to reach new levels of interactivity.  Take a look at the Revolution's controller, and you can see what I mean.

Microsoft are all power; the best graphics, the best online community, the biggest box, the biggest number on their console... they're all about catering to the "hard-core" gamers out there, with some appeal to beginners with their "core system", which is laughable.

Sony are the intermediary, balancing power and playability.  Though I don't have the article to hand, I think EWS can back me up in saying that the PlayStation controller was voted the favourite of its time.  The PlayStation outright owned the Dreamcast and the N64 in terms of games and playablity, and it even outsold the Gamecube for a time.  Sony have always managed to maintain a balance between the two extremes.

Now, Nintendo are zerging the marketplace with consoles.  The DS is good; I want one, just because it's available in blue, and some games sound good.  I wanted the PSP as soon as I heard about it, because it looked so damned cool, and had games I was instantly interested in.  Nintendo seem to have a habit of simply recycling old games for a new console.  You know when the Revolution comes out, there's going to be the staple Mario, Mario Kart, Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, F-Zero, etc. etc.

Nintendo have just gone into overdrive; "DS, Micro, Revolution, Advance2... keep 'em coming, boys!!"

Now take Sony; their FIRST handheld console, going against the handheld kings.  People know and trust Nintendo.  Sony release the PSP... it initially does better than the DS.  Then Nintendo fire off all of their news events (NEW COLOURS!!!  POK

[EWS]

You know, I like the PSP.

[Spectral Paladin]

You calling me a fanboy didn't "hurt my feelings", as you put it.  It did, however, annoy me.  For some time now, I've been saying that the PSP is better overall, while the DS is much more innovative and gaming-focused.  Nintendo have always been like that; providing for all the family, while trying to reach new levels of interactivity.  Take a look at the Revolution's controller, and you can see what I mean.

Microsoft are all power; the best graphics, the best online community, the biggest box, the biggest number on their console... they're all about catering to the "hard-core" gamers out there, with some appeal to beginners with their "core system", which is laughable.

Sony are the intermediary, balancing power and playability.  Though I don't have the article to hand, I think EWS can back me up in saying that the PlayStation controller was voted the favourite of its time.  The PlayStation outright owned the Dreamcast and the N64 in terms of games and playablity, and it even outsold the Gamecube for a time.  Sony have always managed to maintain a balance between the two extremes.

Now, Nintendo are zerging the marketplace with consoles.  The DS is good; I want one, just because it's available in blue, and some games sound good.  I wanted the PSP as soon as I heard about it, because it looked so damned cool, and had games I was instantly interested in.  Nintendo seem to have a habit of simply recycling old games for a new console.  You know when the Revolution comes out, there's going to be the staple Mario, Mario Kart, Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, F-Zero, etc. etc.

Nintendo have just gone into overdrive; "DS, Micro, Revolution, Advance2... keep 'em coming, boys!!"

Now take Sony; their FIRST handheld console, going against the handheld kings.  People know and trust Nintendo.  Sony release the PSP... it initially does better than the DS.  Then Nintendo fire off all of their news events (NEW COLOURS!!!  POK

[EWS]

I actually visit Gamespot daily.  Like Is said, I don't like thier meida file types.  And waht the hell does that ahve to do with this?

[Spectral Paladin]

I put him on msn yesterday and talked about gaming sites.

Media file types? They 're the most common. You can stream them with real player or windows player, or downloaded them.

Dragoon, I tried your patience? Please. I had to put up with you saying the stylus might get lost while in the DS.

I explained the reason I 've bashed the psp. It's because of certain people. You said that people knew Nintendo. Indeed. But for many who bought the psp, it was their first handheld console. Actually it's those people I 'm bashing, and not because they bought a psp, but everything else that is popular, just because it is popular. If you 're not one of those Dragoon, don't take offence. I still remain critical of every psp owner for the other reason I 've posted (ds offers you n64's graphics in your pocket and you want to spend another $100 for more?), but that is just my opinion.

I tried to lighten the mood because the atmosphere was so charged as though it was some fanboyz war. If you wish to keep that tone, go ahead.

Concerning the games that Nintendo keeps producing the same titles with each consoles is a huge advantages. Mario games, mario kart, legend of zelda and metroid prime - all of them have a very long history and most importantly the new games don't just bear the name but are always among the best games of their times.

Now this here is a good example of opinion.  Although DK I would love to agree with you, I reckon that the GC got it better.  I think that they did a great job of making games fun, whilst offering good graphics.  Don't get me wrong, there are some really good games on the PS and PS2 but I tend to have more fun playing some of Nintendos consoles.  ow drawing this from personal expierience with DK - remember playing Hydro Thunder?  How much fun did we have?  How good did we think the graphics were?  How many hours did we loose playing that game?  The only other time I think we have done that was with Final Fantasy 7 and even I passed out after 9 hours of the 16 or 17 we(you) were playing it for.  But anyway, that is just my personal opinion.  As you may not know, I actually don't own a PS2, I get bored playing it.  There are no games on it that seem to hold me attention span long enough, yet I find alot on the Gamecube does.  But that is just me.

You do know that Gamecube had better graphics than the ps2? (let alone more fun games). The ps2 was very popular and that is virtually all it had more than the cube.

Xbox at 299$ and ps2 not having 4 ports smart moves? Nope, imo the dumbest in the entire gaming history. Concerning the xbox, it's a straight ripoff. The only reason they 're doing it is so they can claim they launched at 299$. The hard disk alone makes for the difference in price as it costs $99 itself. And if you don't have a hard disk you 'll need a memory card. So that's already more than 299$. Add to that the wireless controller, the better cables and some other stuff you get with the $399 and you 'll know what it 'll be clever to buy.

Concerning the ps2: my cousins got a ps2. Even though they 're 4 (and often they get more people) and play lots of This is football, which would be lovely to play with 4 players simultaneously, haven't bought the multiadapter, because they couldn't afford it and the controllers (or would rather spend that much money elsewhere). That's 2 controllers sold less.

Micro is aimed at different people than the SP. It hasn't arrived yet, but I see people checking the advertisements, people who would never have bothered about the original game boy advanced.

[EWS]

I actually think that it was implied in my quote the gamecube had better graphics.  Everyone knows that the Gamecube had better graphics then the PS2, and as for Gamespot.  Like I said, I had major problems with their streaming and downloading services so don't get up at me about not having seen a video of the revolution controller.  Not everyone can spend their whole day sitting about on the internet watching movies and downloading stuff.  I have to work, I have to learn and I have to study.

With the PSP, people buy it because they have always bought Sony.  The same reason why all celebrties have iPods (and near everyone else as well) have one is because they are fashionable.  The PSP is turning into that as well, however it still doesn't mean that it offers a good expierience.  People tend to stick to what they know, and I still think that the price of the PSP can be justified.  I'm afraid that I don't have the figures to hand about how much the individual components cost to manufacture.  How much the chip took to develop etc... All of these go into the final price of the machine.  Teh DS was cheap to make as they didn't have to develop a media system, the ability to play movies or the ability to incorporate a data stick into the machine.

Xbox at 299$...smart moves? Nope...The only reason they 're doing it is so they can claim they launched at 299$...The hard disk alone makes for the difference in price as it costs $99 itself. And if you don't have a hard disk you 'll need a memory card. So that's already more than 299$

Like I said above, it's a pretty good marketing ploy.  However I can see sense in what they are doing.

Even though they 're 4 (and often they get more people) and play lots of This is football

Man that game sucks.  Educate them in the way of the Pro Evolution Soccer my Greek friend. :D

Micro is aimed at different people than the SP. It hasn't arrived yet, but I see people checking the advertisements, people who would never have bothered about the original game boy advanced

I've seen a micro, played a micro and nearly bought one.  They are just so cool, but I wouldn't play it ever.  I don't need to because I have a DS.  But the size amazes me, you see the advertisments "Actual size displayed" well you don't fuly appreciate the full extent of the size until you see one in the "flesh".

The reason why people have bought the PSP are simple.  They stick with what they know, and what they love.  People will not deviate from the track if they are unsure whether they are going to like it.  I know of plenty of people who don't like Metroid Prime, Mario Kart, Mario 64, Zelda and all the other "classic" Nintendo games so it would make perfect rational sense to them to buy the PSP instead.  On that they can get to play games that they do like - Grand Theft Auto, Pro Evolution Soccer, Gran Turismo, Metal Gear Acid etc... so I think it would be kinda harsh to bash them for that - after all it is their opinion and their money.

If I draw on the point that I made about people sticking with what they know, and love it would follow that for those who the PSP was their first handheld they would be enetering the era of their life when they would be buying it.  I'm lucky, I grew up with a commodore, Atari ST 520, the SNES, the MegaDrive then progressing onto the PC, the PS, the N64 and so forth.  Many who have bought a PSP have only expierienced the PS2 and were really too young to play the magic of the Gameboy, or maybe even the advance.  Though it would be interesting to see the amount of gamers that have a GBA(or SP) as well as the PSP and their relative age.  I think it would show that a high percentage have both.

All my friends had a GBA, then had a PS2.  Refused to get the DS, or even a GC but instead went out and got a PSP.  They are sticking with a brand that they are comfortable with - much like a particular brand of jeans or clothes.

[Spectral Paladin]

Dragoon, you should look at the reason why I called you a sony fanboy.

You were trying to tell me that psp is better.

Not because it has a higher resolution screen though.

Not because it can display far more colors.

Not because of its multimedia features.

But because it doesn't have a stylus.

Such absurd claims can only come from a fanboy.

You know what? A DS is better than a mobile phone! (!!  :O !!) Since you can't make phone calls with a DS, you can never run out of credit! (!!  :O !!)

O wait. If you run out of credit, you can't make phone calls. So you 're missing something that the DS didn't offer in the first place.

If you resent being called a fanboy, check how reasonable your arguments are before posting them.

I actually think that it was implied in my quote the gamecube had better graphics.  Everyone knows that the Gamecube had better graphics then the PS2, and as for Gamespot.  Like I said, I had major problems with their streaming and downloading services so don't get up at me about not having seen a video of the revolution controller.  Not everyone can spend their whole day sitting about on the internet watching movies and downloading stuff.  I have to work, I have to learn and I have to study.

Well, I think you stressed how fun gamecube games are to the point I thought you meant it made up for worse graphics.

As for Gamespot, heh I don't think it's bad you saw the video later, I merely pointed it out. Funny though, I visit gamespot because I can see what I want fast and easy instead of having to search various sites.

For the rest, I agree. I 'm critical though of people that fear change and stick with what they know, being potentially less  happy and spending more.

[Dragoon Knight]

It seems as though you can't go even one post without insulting me or calling me a fanboy, Spectral Paladin.  My point regarding the stylus is valid, regardless of what you may think; and if you took the time to read the posts I make, I have noted several times that the PSP has superior graphical capabilities and comes with more versatile and advanced multimedia features.

However you continue to mock my comments, and reduce them to what you class as "fanboy" arguments.  EWS - my best friend for over 13 years - has vouched that I am not a fanboy, and he has known me for that long.  You don't know me at all, have biased views towards Nintendo, disrespect each and every PSP owner simply because they bought a PSP... and yet you still have the audacity to call me a fanboy?

Your tone is reminiscent of Emprworm; debasing my opinions, and using your own 'superior' views to mock me.  It's the type of flaming that's most common nowadays, because the person who's doing it can always worm their way out of any disciplinary action by arguing semantics and implied tone.  My arguments have always been reasonable; the one you seem to take affront to most being that a stylus is easy to lose in comparison to no stylus being required.  It is an empirical fact that it is easier to lose something that exists than something that doesn't.  Your personal opinion doesn't come into it - I don't care if you think people who would accidentally lose a stylus are idiots.  My friend has lost several, and he is not an idiot.  The point I'm making is that they can be lost, which would theoretically hinder gameplay.  Accept this as you should, and keep your personal insults to yourself, because they are not welcome here.

Your point regarding the DS being better than a mobile is self-defeating; you state the obvious afterwards.  The DS can't be said to be better or worse than a mobile, because they are two different pieces of equipment.  It's like saying that a toaster is better than a kettle; there really can be no comparison.  What I've been doing is comparing the PSP and the DS - two games consoles.  These two pieces of equipment are on the same level, and are ripe for comparison and adult debate, something you seem incapable of doing without resorting to insults in an attempt to make your arguments seem better.

I've said it several times now, though you seem to conveniently ignore it; the PSP is a better console overall, depending on your definition of console.  The PSP is a multimedia device, and the features it offers (music, video, etc.) are all of a better quality than the DS can ever hope to be.  Its main weakness at the moment is the games lineup, something that will constantly change over the next few months, and as such is not really the best basis for a snapshot comparison... though use it if you want.

The DS, on the other hand, is a pure gaming handheld.  Nintendo have designed it in a similar way to the Xbox 360 Core System; it will play games and perform some standard features, but the main focus is on its innovative gameplay style.  It doesn't focus so much on the other features that are becoming commonplace for games consoles everywhere.  One of the major weaknesses of the Gamecube was that it couldn't play DVDs, while the PS2 and Xbox could.

The PSP says "here's everything you need in one machine; buy me".  The DS says "here's innovative gameplay at its best; you want more?  You can buy more".  Both views are valid, my personal opinion has always been that I prefer the PSP's statement, but that's just the type of person I am.  I don't expect my valid point of view to be reduced to your level of argument, Spectral Paladin.  You continue to make inappropriate posts, directed at me personally, instead of arguing any kind of rational comparison.

EWS has honoured my request that this thread be brought back on track, with valid arguments being posed from both sides.  Your article said that most find the DS too heavy, but EWS indicated differently, saying that he's used to using just one hand, and found the PSP slightly heavier than he would have thought.  He brought up points regarding similar situations in the past, with the Dreamcast being the 'underdog', but still producing great games.  He highlighted the point that - despite your own arrogant views - staying with a brand simply because of the brand is an acceptable choice, because you know that you can trust it.

If you can't reply to this thread without calling me a fanboy, or debasing my views, or dismissing my opinion without valid reasons... then don't bother posting at all, Spectral Paladin.  I've lost nearly all respect for your views and opinions, and the fact that I already know what your response to this post will be pains me even more.

[Spectral Paladin]

Well, I 'd be worried if it didn't.

For one, I do not intend to insult you; however I disagree with what you say. If my attempts to counter it make it seem ridiculous, and you think I 'm mocking you, then maybe it is indeed ridiculous.

However you continue to mock my comments, and reduce them to what you class as "fanboy" arguments.  EWS - my best friend for over 13 years - has vouched that I am not a fanboy, and he has known me for that long.  You don't know me at all, have biased views towards Nintendo, disrespect each and every PSP owner simply because they bought a PSP... and yet you still have the audacity to call me a fanboy?

I do not doubt EWS word. Read again if you cannot understand what I said. Claims as absurd as yours come from fanboys.

It seems as though you can't go even one post without insulting me or calling me a fanboy, Spectral Paladin.  My point regarding the stylus is valid, regardless of what you may think; and if you took the time to read the posts I make, I have noted several times that the PSP has superior graphical capabilities and comes with more versatile and advanced multimedia features.

There are two points about the stylus:

-how easy it is to lose it

-does that make DS worse than PSP?

Now let's see. Is it to lose it? As I 've said many times it is put in the DS and thus the chance is no greater than losing the DS itself. Or losing the earphones of an mp3 player (though I think less). Is it >0? It is. But I don't think that's what you are trying to say. If it is, I concede the point. However the chance is so little (assuming you put the stylus in its place), that it's virtually nil, therefore rendering the argument useless.

When you walk, you may fall and snap your neck. That chance is too small to consider though. If you are careless it will increase certainly. The only way to reduce it to 0, is to not walk at all (have no stylus).

Now, does that small chance of losing the stylus make DS worse in any way than the PSP? As my example proved and you admitted, but failed to see what it means, no. The psp didn't have a touch pad in the first place.

I've said it several times now, though you seem to conveniently ignore it; the PSP is a better console overall, depending on your definition of console.  The PSP is a multimedia device, and the features it offers (music, video, etc.) are all of a better quality than the DS can ever hope to be.  Its main weakness at the moment is the games lineup, something that will constantly change over the next few months, and as such is not really the best basis for a snapshot comparison... though use it if you want.

The DS, on the other hand, is a pure gaming handheld.  Nintendo have designed it in a similar way to the Xbox 360 Core System; it will play games and perform some standard features, but the main focus is on its innovative gameplay style.  It doesn't focus so much on the other features that are becoming commonplace for games consoles everywhere.  One of the major weaknesses of the Gamecube was that it couldn't play DVDs, while the PS2 and Xbox could.

The PSP says "here's everything you need in one machine; buy me".  The DS says "here's innovative gameplay at its best; you want more?  You can buy more".  Both views are valid, my personal opinion has always been that I prefer the PSP's statement, but that's just the type of person I am.  I don't expect my valid point of view to be reduced to your level of argument, Spectral Paladin.  You continue to make inappropriate posts, directed at me personally, instead of arguing any kind of rational comparison.

Nothing new here.

I am not ignoring the fact PSP has multimedia features, and a better quality than the DS. Or the fact that they offer different features. I have made very clear that I agree this is the case and there is nothing to debate, hence why I am not making any posts relating to that. I did make comparisons though based on price.

Lastly, I also made clear that it is my view that sticking to a brand is a bad thing.

[jeff2429]

I see people who buy it because it is sony's.

And I'm not buying the DS because it's from Nintendo, the makers of the crapcube.  :P

[erjin999]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/5071830.stm

Nintendo is outselling psp games or console as well ? What markets ?

I like the closing line though, the best game nintendo never made ! :P

[Danuary]

Well erjin, good job on reviving a long dead thread. It has been quite a while since the argument, I wonder if any opinions have changed seeing the new chain of great games that have been certainly a long time coming for the DS and the phasing out of the PSP as a game console.

BTW, do you even own either?

[erjin999]

Nope, and I didnt revive an argument, I revived a thread about the psp ;).

I saw this article in the news site and remembered this threadm thats got to relevent, no ? Remember, I didnt partake in any of this argument, only a few posts about some controls, if I remember correctly.

Anyway, have you read the bbc story ?

[Danuary]

RTFA? yes, and I thought that the ending comment was rather funny if a bit "fanboyish".

[erjin999]

Yeah, that was all I wanted to show.

[exatreide]

While I still think the PSP is a better system, currently the DS has better games. The control sceme of the PSP seems to be a problem..

BTW I have a 360 now, and it's a sexy beast.