How can battles be realized with shields?

[Mahdi]

"You have to remember that, because of the Great Convention, and the rules of Kanly, House-to-House "battles" were often nothing more than gladiatorial battles between hosue leaders.  Some "battles" even took the form of Cheops (like chess) tournaments."

That, of course, depends on your belief of what Kanly is.  Plus, even though Kanly was declared in Dune, there were two huge battles, the Harkonnen invasion and the Arrakeen revolt.  And in the end, Paul was well within his rights not to engage in single combat with Feyd.  Kanly is more of a personal challenge than something with set rules.  Think of chivalry or the Asian Warriar code, although Kanly seems much less important.

"When fighting full-scale wars, there were two main types of troops:  those who used shields and hand-to-hand weapons such as the knife, sword, or kindjal, and those who preferred ranged weapons."

Where are you getting that?  As far as I know, its not mentioned in the original trilogy.  I would really like to know where that is mentioned.

[Vanguard3000]

Well it's really just common sense.  If shields were used by all, most guns would be obsolete.  One can only assume that not everyone fough hand-to-hand with shields and knives.

Sorry, I should have mentioned that that was more speculation than book-based fact.

[Mahdi]

Guns are considered obsolete.  

[exatreide]

The only place guns were not obsolite was in the desert whare sheilds= death.

[Vanguard3000]

Ah well, I guess you're right.  I just have a hard time picturing the soldiers in Dune not having guns.  I'm sure many of them would have had a pistol or something, just in case some people didn't have shields.

[nemafakei]

Err... Maula pistols, anyone remember?

[Mahdi]

Which wre used only by the occasional Fremen in the deep desert where shields were rarly used, and then were very rare that only certain people were allowed to have them.

[Vanguard3000]

The Maula pistols were used by slave drivers as well (Maula = slave).

[exatreide]

First lets get one thing strait

Projectile weapons were rarly used in  warfare. They were used to guard slaves and the such. And slaves dont have sheilds. So there for Projectile weapons are a option. But in sheild combat. Projectile weapons have limited or no ability to do harm. There for its not practial to have your armed forces armed with projectile weapons. The only way a sheild can be penitrated with out resalting of the death of the penitrater is to enter the sheild slowly with a knife or very rare sheild penitrating weapons.  There for the logical thing to do is arm your infantry with knives and the like. Now about the orni thing. You dont armor a jumbo jet. Its the same with a orni. You dont have all your ornis with sheilds its just to much solars. So you armor what you can.

[nemafakei]

That's true, but shields are very expensive, and it's not just slave who don't have them - I don't expect a whole army corps is given shields, only the important generals and the like. However, on arrakis, shields were not an option, so lasguns could be used.

And maula pistols were not just for slaves - it's just that was their original use. I agree that most fighting infantry would not use maulas, but I was just pointing out that some ballistic weapons were in use.

[Mahdi]

That's true, but shields are very expensive

ACtually Nema, you're a bit confused.  Lasguns are expensive, shields are very cheap, and entire military outfits are outfitted with them, as evidenced by Duncan asking Teg why the soldiers Bene Gesserit army don''t have shields.

[nemafakei]

Oh, yes. Wrong way round. Oh, well.

[UsulSK]

what is a maula pistol and what does it do against shields?

[Usul]

I think it's a sort of dart gun. The projectile can travel 40 yards. They were used by some Fremen in the desert as althougth it cannot pass through a shield only a fool wore a sheild in the desert anyway (because they attract the Shai Halud).

[Vanguard3000]

Yeah, it says in the Terminology that it's a spring loaded dart pistol.  Of course, the darts can be treated in almost any type of poison.