Hitler

[EWS]

Excuse me for creating this topic.  On the threat of sounding...well phychotic, I actually believe Hitler was not as bad as everyone said he was.  I know all about the "bad" things that happened, but what exactly did he do good for the country.  Why was he elected, and why was he in charge.  It is really for personal information rather then anything else.  I would rather this didn't turn into a topic full of flaming, and I wonder if you could just keep this topic sensible, and stress free?  Many thanks

[Dude_Doc]

Actually, I've thought on something "concerning" this topic. It's about politics again, but it's just a thought. The Nazis were actually "more honest" than most Communist countries. (I may sound insane now, but let me explain.) The Nazis were fascists, feudalists and people actually knew this.  They clearly said that one person controlled everything, that everybody should obey him. Communists (no, not real Communists - Stalinists, maoists and all those) at that time, and now, said that everybody was by the people, for the people, but in reality, they were just like Hitler, they were controlled by one person or a very small group of persons, not at all serving the people.

The point - the worst systems are actually more honest about their "stance" than the better ones.

Note that I'm not supporting this or saying that it is good or something, just a though of mine.

Or, another thought: Was Hitler responsible for the killings of millions? Think about it. Hitler first wanted to be an artist, a painter. He tried to apply 2 times to a school, but failed. He then went into politics. Had the school granted him, maybe there never would be a World War 2? Of course, nobody can blame them for not knowing. Besides, even if they knew what was going to happen, would they still let him go (because there was anti-sionism before Hitler got into power). Then, there are many possibilities - what if another person would take control, and actually win the war, because he was more strategic and considered who and what to attack? Would the Soviets attack instead?

About Hitler being good - no, I don't believe that. All dictators have always killed, to their own ends. You say Hitler did good for Germany? Would you say Bush are doing America better? You can't go out without being threatened, you must always have papers etc. I, for one, would never accept such a society.

Actually, I think Germany would have done better should the Communists been elected. They would at least not have gone to war, I believe (no reason to).

[HasimirFenring]

Actually, I think Germany would have done better should the Communists been elected. They would at least not have gone to war, I believe (no reason to).

On that count (Germany would have done better) I agree. 

Or, another thought: Was Hitler responsible for the killings of millions? Think about it. Hitler first wanted to be an artist, a painter. He tried to apply 2 times to a school, but failed. He then went into politics. Had the school granted him, maybe there never would be a World War 2? Of course, nobody can blame them for not knowing. Besides, even if they knew what was going to happen, would they still let him go (because there was anti-sionism before Hitler got into power). Then, there are many possibilities - what if another person would take control, and actually win the war, because he was more strategic and considered who and what to attack? Would the Soviets attack instead?

Hitler didn't found the Nazi party.  True, if someone less ruthless had been in his place, maybe the communists or some other faction could have siezed power instead.  That probably would have turned out better for everyone.

What did Hitler do that was good?  He lower unemployment.  He was elected to combat extreme difficulties with extreme measures (bearing in mind that he himself was never elected, and the Nazis never had a majority in the elected government).

[TMA_1]

hmm of course hitler was not the main player that came up with the mass slaughtering, but he did come up wit lots of the ideals, as well as enforcing those ideals.

I guess people ont like talkibg about hitler in any good light is because of the great evils that he himself helped to commit, either directly or indirectly. He is justly blamed for all the things that occured, and he is one character in history I am okay with not even trying to justify or make sensable. He was just plain evil and he fact that he surrounded peoplea around him who were possibly even more evil makes him just as bad.

[EWS]

I am not interested in the evil things he did, what I am more interested in is what he did good for the country.  There must have been something?

[Dante]

He brought it out of chronic hyperinflation (though not single-handedly), restored patriotic fever, gave it a common purpose, rebuilt and modernised extensively after the crushing defeat of WWI and the humiliating Treaty of Versailles...

[The_Sadukar]

I wonder what will happen once Edric finds this :O

sorry for the offtopicing

[Dante]

He's amart enough to know that there is more to anyone than their political leanings. Like I see there is more to Hitler than his racist idiocies.

[HasimirFenring]

He did get Germany out of the Depression.  No question of that.  If you ignore all of the MANY MANY MANY bad things he did, he seems quite good. 

[Dante]

The same could be said of anyone...  :P 

[EWS]

The many many many bad things?  Did he not just attack the rest of the world and try to kill some Jews?

[shygirl4]

Hitler ended up evil, but I don

[HasimirFenring]

The same could be said of anyone...  :P 

that was meant to be sarcastic  :P

[Dante]

...Where to begin? He believed in genetic perfection, and to that end his eventual plan was to kill (or in some cases sterilise) all gypsies, jews, black people, orientals, gays, deaf people, blind people, communists, left-leaning people, mutants, and all other social, religious and political minorities in order to populate the world (note; not just Germany) with a 'perfect,' blonde aryn (I forget the spelling) race. To this end he hired madmen, lunatics, sadists, crooks, and the occasional loyal supporter. He oversaw mass construction of concentration and then death camps, he created a political ideal that has plagued the world ever since, he killed millions in WW2 after invading Poland (though some would argue that WW2 was inevitable anyway)... Hitler was more than just an anti-semitic pest. The jews get so much attention because there were so many of them killed, and the campaign against them was so public. They had to wear their yellow stars, but how many people know that there were similar symbols for nearly all of the other 'lesser' people? Purple triangles for us, I believe.

Hitler, like many Germans, was deeply affected by the brutal Treaty of Versailles... But he was the only one that brought out his revenge like that.

[Anathema]

The enormous boost of the economy was possible because he raised a huge army, providing a boost to the industry. If he had not started the war though, Germany would have gone bankrupt.

And many of the things Hitler is usually credited for, like building the autobahn (freeway's) were already thought up by the Weimar republic.

Face it, Hitler is the worst thing that ever happened to Germany, and possibly the world as well.

[HasimirFenring]

World War II may have been inevitable (I'm not convinced that it was), but had someone else been leading the European theatre, it may have been a much more 'sane' war (no bombing of civilians, no concentration camps, no genocide, etc).

Anathema, you may well be right.  Stalin may have been worse, but Hitler is certainly in the top 5.

[Dante]

Oh I'm sure that depends on opinion. Personally I loathe nearly everything about him, but that's just me. Poor li'l Weimar, never got a real chance...

Bombing of civilians would have taken place, but chances are that concentration camps would not have done, had Hitler not been around.

[Anathema]

I'm quite sure that there would have been bombing on civilian targets as well, at least assuming that this war without Hitler would have been just as large scaled. The allies were looking for a quick end of the war and though it would be a good idea to bomb German cities to force them into surrendering.

[EWS]

So all he ever did was bad things?  Nothing good?  He didnt benefit the country in anyway before the war?  He didn't increase economy?  Decrease unemployment?  Increase literacy?  Things like that?

[Dante]

Didn't I just answer that?

He brought it out of chronic hyperinflation (though not single-handedly), restored patriotic fever, gave it a common purpose, rebuilt and modernised extensively after the crushing defeat of WWI and the humiliating Treaty of Versailles...

[HasimirFenring]

So all he ever did was bad things?  Nothing good?  He didnt benefit the country in anyway before the war?  He didn't increase economy?  Decrease unemployment?  Increase literacy?  Things like that?

He did some or all of those things.  Everyone just sees them as minor next to the terrible atrocities he is responsible for.

[EWS]

Well at this point I'm not really caring on what he did bad.  What I am more interested in, is what he did that benefitted Germany and the world.  What were these things?

[HasimirFenring]

Dust Scout has posted the answer to that question several times now...

[EWS]

...Where to begin? He believed in genetic perfection, and to that end his eventual plan was to kill (or in some cases sterilise) all gypsies, jews, black people, orientals, gays, deaf people, blind people, communists, left-leaning people, mutants, and all other social, religious and political minorities in order to populate the world (note; not just Germany) with a 'perfect,' blonde aryn (I forget the spelling) race. To this end he hired madmen, lunatics, sadists, crooks, and the occasional loyal supporter. He oversaw mass construction of concentration and then death camps, he created a political ideal that has plagued the world ever since, he killed millions in WW2 after invading Poland (though some would argue that WW2 was inevitable anyway)... Hitler was more than just an anti-semitic pest. The jews get so much attention because there were so many of them killed, and the campaign against them was so public. They had to wear their yellow stars, but how many people know that there were similar symbols for nearly all of the other 'lesser' people? Purple triangles for us, I believe.

Hitler, like many Germans, was deeply affected by the brutal Treaty of Versailles... But he was the only one that brought out his revenge like that.

If you are talking about that post, all he has described is the bad things.

[Dante]

He brought it out of chronic hyperinflation (though not single-handedly), restored patriotic fever, gave it a common purpose, rebuilt and modernised extensively after the crushing defeat of WWI and the humiliating Treaty of Versailles...

This one. Again.   :P