US Elections May Be Postponed

[ordos45]

You may remember a while back I started a topic in which I predicted the USA's Presidential Elections might be postponed indefinitely.  Today I was browsing www.cnn.com when I found the following. (Bold emphasis mine)

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/11/election.day.delay/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. officials have discussed the idea of postponing Election Day in the event of a terrorist attack on or about that day, a Homeland Security Department spokesman said Sunday.

The department wants to know about the possibility of granting emergency power to the newly created U.S. Election Assistance Commission, authority that Roehrkasse said was requested by DeForest B. Soaries Jr., the commission's chairman.

[Dude_Doc]

Yeah, just as I thought. Either they're thinking like we do, or they are monitoring us... :)

[ordos45]

Probably the former, I'd hate to think I was worthy of ECHELON surveillance...though some of you... ;)

Anyhow, they can't do this.  Right now it's a suggestion.  If they follow through and grant the emergency powers, then America is gone.  At least any vestage of the America I've grown up in.  If they do grant emergency powers and postpone the elections, I think there will be rioting in the streets and a declaration of martial law.  American soldiers will be shooting American civilians.  And at the absolute worst, a civil war.

Do the politicians realize how tumultuous the public is?  The African American community is more or less enraged already that Bush turned down the invitation to speak at the NAACP Convention.  The Latino community is tired of being treated like slave labor and second class citizens.  The average American family is tired of wars, and are afraid their children will be sent off to die next.  (Interestingly the new Draft legislation was proposed by the Democrats.)  National Guardsmen/women are tired of being called up from their families and forced to leave them for years at a time.  Small businesses are tired of the employees being yanked from them for military service, even if they do enjoy tax cuts.

And about the tax cuts.  One guy I was reading about at Slate as it criticized my state gets a whole 25 cents tax break thanks to the cuts, so the working person is far from benefiting.

[DukeLeto]

The African American community is more or less enraged already that Bush turned down the invitation to speak at the NAACP Convention.

Yes, the first president since Hoover to do so.  But why come to a conference full of people your own brother denied the right to vote because they had SSNs close to those of felons?

[exatreide]

if the civil war happens, I will personaly lead the assults in my area. VIVA LE REVOLUTION!

[Wolf]

Yeah, I just saw this article.

About the draft, Democrats are pushing for this so they can make Iraq seem more like Vietnam so Bush gets more opposition. It's playing politics with lives.

I don't think martial law can be declared, though. Somewhere along the line, some military commander or soldier is going to disobey a direct order to shoot at civilians. We're too dramatic a culture to not have that happen.

Frightening stuff, though, nonetheless. Are there any legitimate reasons to postpone the elections?

EDIT: ""I don't think there's an argument that can be made, for the first time in our history, to delay an election," said Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California, a member of the Intelligence Committee.

"We hold elections in the middle of war, in the middle of earthquakes, in the middle of whatever it takes. The election is a statutory election. It should go ahead, on schedule, and we should not change it.""

Genius.

[danielsh]

More and more, I feel like a nutbar conspiracy theorist under this administration.  Is this happening to anyone else?  Here's my latest nuttery:

We've seen an article like this before, as I recall, and I stand by my original analysis.  If a small town in "the heartland" is attacked, with 2,000--5,000 casualties (or so), and this results in a canceled election, I will believe that President Bush is responsible.  There is no strategic value to such an attack but to show that "the terrorists can strike anywhere," which is the sort of thing Bush & Co. want us to think anyway.  (Because it's good to have the populous constantly petrified; just ask Hermann Goering.)

We have already seen that President Bush is willing to casually let 1,002 people (not counting civilians, mind) die for his poll numbers.  We have already seen the high value of power to his cabinet and supporters.  We have already seen a disdain for human life.  Moreover, we have already and repeatedly seen a willingness to manipulate intelligence for partisan gains

[ordos45]

I always knew I liked Feinstein for a reason...and no Dan, he's made me feel a bit conspiracy nutty.  For those who don't get the Goerring reference:

"It is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."

--Hermann Goering (Hitler's vice-Fuhrer, shortly before his death in Nuremberg)

[nemafakei]

"I'd hate to think I was worthy of ECHELON surveillance...though some of you..."

Uh, well, I don't know about you, but any emails sent in the UK (except those internal to servers' groups) are read by Echelon.

[Andrew]

Why can't they be like Canada and have the elections called 1 month before they happen?

This whole election thing has been going on since last year.

Is there even a date set yet for the US election?

If they postpone it because of terrorist fears, then the terrorists have won.

[Wolf]

What is ECHELON, and why is it reading Nema's e-mails?

[ordos45]

Andrew, there's a set date in November each year for them.  To change it out of  fear would be unheard of.

ECHELON is the largest electronic spy network in history.  It's run by the US, UK, Australia, New Zealand, and I believe...Canada.  It intercepts billions of phone, fax, and e-mail messages a day.  It's supposedly there from the Cold War to monitor Soviet stuff, but with the Soviets gone, and it still in operation, it's believed by a lot of critics that they use it to spy on their own people.

[nemafakei]

Believed? Critics?

It's fairly common knowledge here.

[ordos45]

But our government isn't as honest about it as yours.

[Dude_Doc]

Here you can read about the Echelon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon

What seems strange to me, is how they stirred up the "coming-attack-on-America" thing. I mean, someone posted a thread here, not that long ago, with a link to another site. A small article. Some days after that, it was all over the news. And now, all of a sudden, when Kerry chose Edwards as his running mate, they chose to take up the threat once again.

As far as I can see, things has gone awry. They claimed Iraq had WMD's, they went into the country, it took them months to find Saddam, and  when they finally did, no WMD's was found or anything. Sure, I'm glad they helped the Iraqi people, but the thing is: will the rebels retake the country? Install another Saddam? If that is possible, was it worth waging a war?

And now, they are saying one thing and contradicting with the other. First they say that there is a possibility that a strike will occur just before/around the election, just because it did in Spain. Now, I don't think Spain expected that terrorists would do anything in their own country, since the terrorists hate the U.S. above all other countries (I think, no?). Then, they're saying that the intelligence community screwed up and can't be trusted (or, at least, that's the impression I get when I watch CNN).

Basically, they're saying that there can be a strike, but that we shouldn't trust them... or?

[danielsh]

We can always turn to Tom Burka for the answers...

Sinking Bush Poll Numbers Increase Likelihood of Terrorist Attack, Says Ridge

Connection Unfathomable, Say Rove, Cheney

Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge announced today that analysts had concluded that the likelihood of a terrorist strike in America increases whenever the President's popularity rating declines.

"There's a distinct correlation between the President's popularity ratings and increased terrorist activity," said Ridge. "Whenever President Bush's numbers go down, it's far more likely that we will be attacked by al Qaeda."

"The only thing we can advise is for U.S. citizens to like President Bush as much as possible to keep us all safe," Ridge concluded.

Standing in front of a wall of high-tech flat screen monitors, Ridge addressed reporters in the new Department of Homeland Security Security Operations Center.

"I can't for the political life of me say why this is happening," said Ridge. "I'm utterly stumped."

Ridge denied that Gilligan's Island was showing on one of the many screens behind him. "Oh, no," he said. "That's an uncharted desert isle."

[Dude_Doc]

"The only thing we can advise is for U.S. citizens to like President Bush as much as possible to keep us all safe," Ridge concluded.

Still think I'm crazy when I'm talking about conspiracy theories and secret societies? :)

But as I said, first they say how bad the intelligence community is, then they expect us to believe that a terrorist strike is coming. Who should we believe?

[Andrew]

I wonder how many times they said a terrorist threat is probably since 9/11. Hmm... about every time Bush's rating decreases.

Now why after 9/11 are they issuing terror alerts when before they never did. And remember after 9/11 they went to war on terror. You would think by now they would have this whole terrorist thing under wraps compared to prior 9/11 when there were no terror alerts.

Point: This whole terrorist thing is a bunch of bullshit.

Every major event nowadays all they focus on is the security.

[Dude_Doc]

Makes me remember "Bowling for Columbine" documentary. Remember the Y2K bug-thing, the computer-bug that somehow would destroy our world? Or what about the anthrax alarm? They used it to earn money on that particular false alarm. I think it's the same now. They want people to buy things to feel safe. And in our time, when it is possible to download music and movies, they need something new :)  ...

[Wolf]

First of all, I think the Tom Ridge thing is a joke.

Second, I think Cyborg is on to something. It's the commercialization of government. They need to sell Bush, Kerry, whoever. Nader is, naturally, the only one not playing their game.

[ordos45]

Yes the Tom Ridge comment is a joke.  Much like the Borowitz Report, it's crafted to be satire stupidly close to accurate that can seem true.  That's the best type of political satire, the kind you have to stop and go "Is this real?"

[Edric O]

You know, I just thought of something. Even assuming an absolute worst-case scenario, delaying the elections just doesn't make sense. Why hold the elections later when you should be holding them sooner?

After all, think about it: Let's assume that Bin Laden is planning an attack in October or November. If you hold the elections in August, he won't have time to finish his preparations, and his plans will be thwarted. On the other hand, if you hold the elections next January (for example), then Bin Laden will have even MORE time to prepare, so he will be able to launch an even MORE devastating attack.

If the terrorists are planning an attack, then delaying the elections only gives them more time to prepare.

If anything, you should be holding early elections.

[ordos45]

You think they have that much sense?  Besides, we must have the utmost ammount of time to bash each other for being sleazier than themselves. 

Condie Rice said today that they won't be postponing the elections, but who knows?  I trust Bush's cabinet for the most part as much as I trust my drunken neighbors, very little.

[danielsh]

Edric, what you're saying makes logical sense if the aim of postponing elections is to ensure safety and hold fair elections.  But if the elections are indeed moved, I somehow think it won't be out of concern for the average voter.

[Edric O]

Well, look at it this way: The election delay depends on the terrorist threat level, and the terrorist threat level depends on the President's popularity... ;)