China is the # 1 threat to global security (Discuss)

[ordos45]

Actually last I heard on our news it's starting to replace the F-15 in 2005.

[Dunenewt]

Isn't it the F/A 22?  Yes it will be entering service soon. And the JSF is being built in a role which will probably replace it already.  The Raptor (as the F/A 22 is known) also went a long way over budget, just like our Eurofighter.  The Mig 1.44/35 is faster, cheaper, and was under developement in 1986! 

About the tanks, the T-72 was first made in 1972 will be no comparision to the M1A2 Abrams, but a T-90 would be.

[TMA_1]

hmmm I think the joint strike fighter will be a hell of a lot more prevalent than the expensive f22. Plus the jsf is a pretty good idea, I mean it can be altered in so many ways for use in the three branches that fly.

also, though the new russian made planes have a better thrust vectoring system, and are often faster, that does not win wars. good pilots always can beat bad ones. And probably the biggest thing that the western countries have over russian-built planes is the complete domination in electronics, which kick the russian planes asses.lol

I am more concerned over the sweeping advancements in chinese aircraft. they are growing in that technology.

[ordos45]

It's the Chinese advancement in Countermeasures for Electronics I worry about...why was that again?  Oh yes, some sub contractor of the US Government sold it to them illegally.

[nemafakei]

Beg pardon? I'm afraid I've never heard of any of that.

[Dunenewt]

Haha,  The Chinese planes are all ex-Russian ones.  All the Russians wpuld have to do is stop giving them the designs and they'd be screwed.  As I said before the JSF has been seriously flawed since conception and will be costly as well.

[ordos45]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/07/01/china.weapons/index.html

Prosecutors allege that the seven violated U.S. export laws by selling defense weapons systems, including radar, smart weapons, electronic warfare and communications.

[Dunenewt]

But if they have no plane to put them on they're still stuck.  In my opinion the biggest world power is USA, then Russia, then China, then probably India.

[Barbarossa]

I personally would love to see the result of a well trained and equipped division of M2Abrams

going up against a likewise trained and equipped division of T-90's. that would be an excellent show! (in a realistic simulation that is)

[Dunenewt]

You mean the M1A2 Abrams?  Depends what kind of T-90 I suppose.  A fully kitted out T-90 would beat an Abrams, but the average one...I'm not so sure.  Besides, the Challenger 2 is the best tank in the world.  The Americans had to buy the armour used on it because they didn't have anything better.

[Barbarossa]

But if they have no plane to put them on they're still stuck.

[Dunenewt]

Your point proved mine not yours :S

[Barbarossa]

;D

[Barbarossa]

You mean the M1A2 Abrams?

[TMA_1]

russia a world power? they dont even have the money to support their own airforce! lol most of their pilots havent been paid in months (some cases years). They usually end up selling most of their bigtime military wares. Hell, even their new jets arent being manufactured, instead they are hoping that other nations will buy them. China by the way is coming up with new fighter designs.

[Barbarossa]

Yes, they are just now introducing some ideas of their own.....

unifortionitly they arent new ideas, the "new" chinease jets are just ripoffs of russian tech.

like I said earlier china gets the largest percentage of it's millitary "stuff" from the russlans.

[Anathema]

Even worse, right now the MiG manufacturers are exporting models with up to date technology that Russia can't afford to buy at the moment. So other countries have better MiGs then Russia itself! lol

China, though it definitely qualifies as a world power, needs to shape up it's army before it can be considered a military superpower.

Edit: the new Abram's "serial number" M1A2. M2 is the Bradley IFV.

[Dunenewt]

TMA:China's jet designs are almost all from the Sukhio or MiG bureaus which are Russian, as was said before the Chinese planes are copies of the Russian's ones, as ar the Tanks.  If you do not consider Russia a world power consider the fact they could turn the whole USA into a radioactive wasteland.  Just because they don't get paid doesn't mean they wont fight.  Just look at Russia in WW2.  Tsar Vladmir Putin is improving the Russian military as well.

[Barbarossa]

I would'nt start talking about the russian nuke as if they are anything special, most are so ill-repaired and maintained they would'nt do anything more then scare some third world countrys.

[Anathema]

Well, it's not as if they're intended for actual use though...

[Dunenewt]

Barbarossa, are you stupid?

Of course Nukes are special.  A nuke is a nuke whether is is a large one or small one.  They can destroy USA, and Anathema, I think there's as much chance as theirs being ready for use as US, British, French or Chinese ones.  India, Pakistan or Israel is a different matter though.  I'm not totally sure if North Korea has a bomb...anybody know?

[Anathema]

Russia's arsenal is large enough to destroy the Earth's surface several times, so even if over half of them weren't working they still could destroy any country of their choosing. What I meant though, is that the purpose generally ascribed to nukes is deterence, not actual use of them. And for that, even a single nuke is enough.

I'm pretty sure Pakistan and India have missiles at the ready pointed at eachother, but they don't have intercontinental ones. Israel does however, their nukes (wich they officially don't have) can reach Moscow or even further. Chinese nukes can reach the US, but far into it, because their missiles have smaller ranges then "real" ICBMs.

[Dunenewt]

That's a bit confusing.  Did you miss out 'not' at the end?

[ordos45]

A Chinese scientist a few months ago said he saw a nuke in an underground North Korea bunker.

[Barbarossa]

Please! calm down I was only pointing out that at least 60% of russia's nukes are worthless rusty hunks of uranium and steel.