Which Movie is better

[Mahdi]

The budget for Lynch's was $5 million.  Yes, at that time, it was the most expensive movie ever made, but no where near a billion dollars.

[Andrew]

It was more than 20 million. ;)

[Mahdi]

Stupid keyboard. That should say $45 million.

[Scott]

Here's some of comments on each of the versions as I see it.

Harrison

Cons

- repeated use of the 'Harkonnen's getting blow into the air' and 'Fremen kill Harkonnen' montages

- Sardaukar less intimidating, more gay

- Paul summons water from seemingly nowhere to pour down onto his worshippers at Sietch Tabr

- Irulan given more screentime, I die a little on the inside

- upside to Irulan screentime, less screentime for James Watson's overweight, retro hippy version of Duncan Idaho

- Gurney provides much needed comic relief, due to the fact that P.H. Moriarty's acting is so very, very bad

- best Matt Kessler (Feyd) proformance since Tom Arnold's 'The Stupids'

- Fenring is featured, although is seen in a oversized metallic hat

- Jan Unger's Piter leaves only his face uncovered with layers and layers of thick leather. Which makes you wonder if Unger isn't some super intelligent cyborg, sent back through time to kill the mother of the leader of the human resistance from its time, underneath all that leather.

- Feyd sports a rather large wind sail on his back as he prepares to fight Paul

- Paul shows he Fremen restraint for the waste of water by spitting throughout the pre-battle monologue at the end of the Part 3

- Paul prefers to face Feyd 'Aryan Kung Fu Style' at the end of Part 3

- Laura Burton's Alia fills me with the gentle urge to murder all children

- Sietch Tabr is filled mostly with Fremen who openly walk around in broad daylight (without stillsuits) around the sietch, seemingly without a care in the world as they craft wooden string puppets for the children to enjoy

- Sietch Tabr is the LEAST stealthiest Fremen encampment EVER.

- glow globes seem to be powered by MAGIC, as Fremen shake the hell out of them to turn them on

- Paul's impersonation of Baron Harkonnen and Gurney's subsequent 'laughter'

- Sandworms look like a hotdog with a bunch of pennies glued to it in a ramshackle fashion

- [sarcasm] the little Muad'Dib (the CGI mouse) looks very real and was almost unrecognizable, I thought I was there on DUNE![/sarcasm]

- entire series was mostly shot on a soundstage

- Paul and Gurney's shield battle or lack there of

- Ornithopter's still not capable of 'beat-wing flight in the manner of birds'

- Harkonnen 'thopters' dogfight Atriedes 'thopters' (Hey wasn't there suppose to be some kind of sandstorm preventing such aircraft from getting airborne?)

- death of Leto II (the little baby)

- after the first couple of scenes with Reverend Mother Mohiam, I wanted to stick my head in the pain box.

Pros

- Hunter Seeker

- Water of Life (worm drowning sequence)

- Eyes of Ibad digital effect

- Karel Dobry's Liet, William Hurt's Leto, Alec Newman's Paul (better than McKalchlan), Christoper Lee Brown's Jamis, Barbora Kodetova's Chani, Saskia Reeves's Jessica, Ochsenknecht's Stilgar

- stillsuits

- Atriedes uniforms

- any Fenring is good Fenring

- Fremen caves

- Jamis vs. Paul sequence

- Death of Kynes

- Guild Navigator

- Fold Space sequence

Lynch

Cons

- Linda Hunt as the Shadout Mapes, largely removed with good reason, did she have to be a miget? Honestly.

- Alicia Witt's performance as Alia, I still hear her voice echoing in my dreams 'But how can this be? Because he is the Kwisatz Haderach!' Like anyone gives a fuck.

- Baron Harkonnen's face, we all know evil people have poor hygene

- Paul Smith's Rabban, now alot of people knock Paul over his performance...and I will be no exception

- stillsuits, not only do they have no way to absorb water off the face, they're jet black. Nice to have in the hot desert where everything is practically orange

- Richard Jordan's Duncan Idaho, I enjoyed his death so much watched it 134 times in slow motion....today.

- Dean Stockwell's facial hair 

- Brad Dourif is Brad Dourif

- Ornithopters still not ornithopting, plus look like flying boxes (aerodynamic?)

- Harkonnen flagship

- the deadly cat poison

- heartplugs

- when I heard 'The sleeper has awakened!' or anything along those lines, I wanted to die more than ever before

- incomplete, damaged and not the directors true vision sadly enough.

- the Hunter Seeker, like who could see that coming? It's like a car battery with a sewing needle attached to it.

Pros

- Mentats actually look like Mentats

- Patrick Stewart's Gurney Halleck, Everett McGill's Stilgar, Sean Young's Chani

- Bene Gesserit

- Guild Navigator posse sequence

- Sandworms, specifically wormsign

- little David Lynch cameo

- Sting's Feyd (c'mon it was the best)

- lets not forget 'Usul'

I think thats about it, if I think of anything more I'll be sure to post it. Stay tuned for Children of Dune P&C.

[Vanguard3000]

You didn't like Dourif's Piter?  You've made a powerful enemy on this day, my friend... I mean enemy.

Seriously, what was wrong with his performance?

[Scott]

I think Dourif, because he's a character actor, can't accurately portray Piter. In my opinion he the only roles he can choose and would work, are those that fit that character that he so frequently plays. (with the possible exception of his performance in One Few Over the Cuckoo's Nest)

I just think this time it doesn't suit Piter at all. I mean he captures certain qualities of the character just not enough to make the character complete.

[Andrew]

Here's some of comments on each of the versions as I see it.

Harrison

Cons

- glow globes seem to be powered by MAGIC, as Fremen shake the hell out of them to turn them on

I am guessing it is a chemical mixture when they shake them to produce light. like the halloween glow sticks you break to light up.

- death of Leto II (the little baby)

I thought that was a very moving part of the miniseries. Made me sad.

Lynch

Cons

- Ornithopters still not ornithopting, plus look like flying boxes (aerodynamic?)

So true! :)

- lets not forget 'Usul'

Which Usul/part is it you like?

Everything else is pretty much what I would say.

[Vanguard3000]

I think Dourif, because he's a character actor, can't accurately portray Piter. In my opinion he the only roles he can choose and would work, are those that fit that character that he so frequently plays. (with the possible exception of his performance in One Few Over the Cuckoo's Nest)

I just think this time it doesn't suit Piter at all. I mean he captures certain qualities of the character just not enough to make the character complete.

I agree that Dourif is, to an extent, a character actor, although this is largely because he is only cast in one type of role.  Dr. Gediman (Alien Resurrection), Saavedro (Myst 3: Exile), Ensign Lon Sudor (Star Trek: Voyager) are all examples of this.  But I think that Piter fits the kind of character Dourif is best at portraying.  His mocking, superior tone and over-enunciaton; the hand gestures when he spoke; the twitching.  I thought it was spot on.  But to each his own.  ;)

[Scott]

I am guessing it is a chemical mixture when they shake them to produce light. like the halloween glow sticks you break to light up.

Very likely, I just thought it was kinda dumb and wasn't my impression of what a glow globe looked like at all. However it does make some sense on one level and on another it doesn't. On the one hand it seems fitting in a desert environment to make due with what seemingly is the 'bare essentials' but on the other hand the Fremen didn't seem (from the novel) to be that technologically disadvantaged that they'd need that type of glow globe instead of a more mechanized one.

I thought that was a very moving part of the miniseries. Made me sad.

Normally I'd agree with you but I just can't get past the Sardaukar costumes. To me it ruined the moment and cheapened what the scene was suppose to be about.

Which Usul/part is it you like?

I know it was a little vague but I was referring to the fact that the Miniseries left out the totality of the naming of Paul. By that I mean his secret name amongst the fremen of Sietch Tabr. It just seems more intimate when Chani calls Paul, Usul, instead of just Muad'Dib, by which he is called by mostly everyone. However even Usul is mostly even abandoned by Herbert in Messiah, which I think kinda sucks.

I agree that Dourif is, to an extent, a character actor, although this is largely because he is only cast in one type of role.

[Andrew]

I meant what you liked about Usul in Lynch's Dune.

[Scott]

I meant what you liked about Usul in Lynch's Dune.

I thought I already explained it.

It just seems more intimate when Chani calls Paul, Usul, instead of just Muad'Dib, by which he is called by mostly everyone. However even 'Usul' is abandoned by Herbert in Messiah, which I think kinda sucks.

I liked the fact that it increased the feeling of intimacy between the characters. I felt it sounded ackward everytime Chani refered to Paul as Muad'Dib in the Miniseries.

I am guessing it is a chemical mixture when they shake them to produce light. like the halloween glow sticks you break to light up.

EDIT: I was just wondering, how could you turn it off?

[Andrew]

Well if it was a chemical mixture, say one chemical is "lighter" than the other they would separate on their own, but slowly (so slowly dimming). But I have no evidence to suggest it would actually work after the first use of it or work at all. :)

[Scott]

Well if it was a chemical mixture, say one chemical is "lighter" than the other they would separate on their own, but slowly (so slowly dimming). But I have no evidence to suggest it would actually work after the first use of it or work at all. :)

Pretty efficient eh?  ;)

I'm not saying it wouldn't work, if it would work at all, I think it'd work exactly the way you pointed out. But I guess it was artistic license on Harrison's part, so we may never know.

[nemafakei]

Ok, I've mostly tried to keep to additions only; I agree with much of what Scott said. Bear in mind, however, that each is an attempt to convert Dune into a different medium, each with different restrictions. Consequently, as a film, we can't expect to see everything in Lynch's Dune, but we do expect it to be dramatic and a good gist of the plot of Dune. Whereas as a miniseries, we want a good 80-90% of the plot and scenes included, we want it to keep more rigorously to the text, and though we don't want to be technically amazed, we want to see a good deal of what is Dune (And, given it's title, we want FH's Dune, not anyone else's.)

Harrison

Fundamental Cons

- The fact that the character dynamics of every scene was changed (I can't list them at all)

- The fact that time and money was spent overdeveloping irrelevant and useless subplots, as well as superflous plots entirely made up on the spot.

- The fact that despite having time for half-baked fanfic, in six hours or whatever it was, they missed out half of Dune, most of its atmosphere, depth, and character.

- A fair bit of the non-czech cast, plus Mohiam.

- Lack of atmosphere

More Specific Cons

- Has to be mentioned: Paul could occasionally, and privately, be less than co-operative with his mentors. But he was not a spoilt brat.

- Mohiam did not have an arranged meeting with Paul on the highliner, but a covert one before the move, during the night, in Castle Caladan.

- Hi-tech lighting that changed according to the mood of the people in a given room was never mentioned in the books, nevertheless, Mohiam has it in her room (actual purpose of which goodness only knows)

- Even if such technology is feasible, why do characters later go green within seconds in the middle of the desert?

- The navigator does not need wings to fly out of its ridiculously small box to somewhere without any spice gas, somewhere it cannot, therefore, breathe.

- Irulan was not a diplomat or a spy. What happened to Countess Fenring?

- There was no need whatsoever for Irulan's servant, either.

- Deserves a repeat: Paul at the official dinner. No, No, No.

- The hobby of collecting and attaching butterflies to one's dress before attending a meal in a planet entirely devoid of butterflies was not well documented in the Dune books.

- I must ask how guild members are expected walk through doors designed for those of us humans who are not formed by coating a sausage in dark blue fabric and attaching a face halfway up, as well as two arms whose only purpose is to make ridiculous gestures.

- What was Thufir (aka 'Tufa', an igneous rock), but a generic advisor who didn't like the Bene Gesserit. Where were the mentat traits? Where was his plot? Where was the rest of his life after Harrison killed him off for no good reason?

- What was Piter, but a generic advisor who was a little sneaky, and as sycophantic as any you might expect in the Baron's service?

- What is this wonderful new invention of a weapon as used by Feyd in his gladiatorial fights?

- I was never aware Feyd performed to great audiences in a gym with a frankly upper-class-public-school atmoshere to it? (NB British public school means private, not state)

- Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, a scheming, brutal enemy is so brilliantly portrayed with his little rhyming ditties.

- And his silk dressing gown.

- Arrakis, apparently, is full of rock formations that look exactly the same.

- And it has an oval moon

- Stillsuit routine. We really don't need to see them taking them off for that long!

- They are then perfectly happy, of course, to walk around in the sun with no stillsuits.

- Apparently, House Harkonnen have developed uniforms which keep their brilliant colour even when you're patrolling a dusty desert planet. There's not a speck on them!

- The Harkonnen seem to have run out of stock of all blue uniforms, taking after house colour, or camouflage, so they got in a load of red ones. Perhaps they were on offer, and that observant accountant Piter snapped them up in time.

- Piter also seems to have mastermined getting the decorators in for Giedi Prime.

- Harkonnen nobility's wardobe also seems to have been Piter's department.

- The face made out of sand (Baron's dreams, et al.). What can be said?

- The Water of Life and Prophecy graphics. I've seen better on a Win 3.1 screensaver. If you  want to use flashy CGI, do it properly!

Fundamental Pros

- It was at least three hours of Dune.

- Almost all the Czech cast, especially Dr Kynes.

- It provided a better feel of how Arrakis worked, and exactly what the Atreides had been given as a fief.

More Specific Pros

- The Harkonnen Ornithopters had flapping pteroi! Pity about the rest of them...

- Dr Kynes: a cautious, circumspect, but clever character.

- Portayal of Baron Harkonnen as a cruel, but more sly than vastly evil character.

- Paul as Muad'Dib. Mostly.

- Casting choice of Duncan Idaho. Just right.

- Alia: She's just not like other children. It's good.

- Ummmm.

I'll try to post my viwes on Lynch soon.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

Saw COD miniseries few days ago. It is definately the best. much better than all the other dune movies ever made.

[Scott]

Gasp! You can't be serious! I thought it was definately the worst.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

really? if you compare them to the novels. CoD is the one which sets a dune atmosphere as when you read the books.

[Terror]

I actually agree with Emperor :) . I liked CoD the best. It was the most professional i think. Good cast, nice special FX and the story was wel put.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

only bad thing was the age of Leto and Ghani. they should be 9 years old.

[Tako]

well liked them all I think

the lighting in FHD was very well done ( in my opinion ) it made some scenes more intence..

Although they could have filmed FHD in the real desert because I could see where the sand ends and the screen began.

overall the miniseries where a bit better because they where closer to the book

[Emperor Harkonnen]

they were also better in effects. but in the lynch movie I liked better the actors chosen. THey fit the describtion of the book in the lynch movie.

Duke Leto really had black hair. Irulan had blond hair. Stilgar was more like I had imgained him in the lynch movie than in the miniseries.

(btw. the guy playing stilgar in the miniseries is the same as the person who was russian general in the James Bond movie Octopussy :) )

[commieUSSRpunk]

i didnt like the Sci Fi channel Dune movies at all.i hated the casting,none of the characters looked like what i imagined.however it was very true to the story which was good.I really liked the old Dune movie.it wasnt to true to the story but i liked the way it was made and the casting was good too.the dune books are very wierd and trippy and so was the older Dune movie.