Emp posted the bug on his site

[Frodo_I]

I gotta give emprworm props for posting the air drone bug on his site. It wasn't a popular decision, he made a thread asking how many would want it posted on SR's site and the people "overwhelmingly" said no.

I honestly believe that the best way to combat cheating is to let everyone know how it's done, and thats why i'm glad emp posted the bug. The more people that know about it the more people that will leave a game when it's used, the less cheaters will use it cause everyone leaves their games

If only a select few know about it, eventually that select few grows cause people like to show off, then the "growing" population of people that know about it start using it and the people playing them wind up feeling like they just swallowed a fish at a faternity initiation and now there choking.

For those that haven't seen, emprworm has a site for tips and tricks where he posted a slide show on how to exploit the air drone bug. As i said before i knew about this bug for some time now, i had figured out how it could be used, both the way emp shows it, and another "less" cheating way that actually allows someone to kill the drones if they know where to go.

Kudos emp for having the ballz to make an unpopular decision and post the bug slid show. I even learn something from it. I didn't know that the drones were invisible to others, i thought they could see them, but couldn't do anything about it

***side note, my swallowing a fish reference is actually very old, and true. IF anyone can say where that reference came from post in a reply and impress me***

[emprworm]

I would be interested in knowing if people have that bug used against them.  As far as I'm concerned, it is cheating.

[playerap]

i got a question like ur gonna engie drop and u go along the sides is that cheating?

[emprworm]

people have been engr dropping along the sides for ages.  I think a lot of them had no idea about this.  I dont think you can call that cheating.  Once you drop an APC, it becomes fully subject to attack, so it is not invincible.  Pershonally, i dont consider it cheating at all simply because so many people have been doing that for so long you cant ask them to quit.

[Gobalopper]

Yes its sorta like the space exploit where people would enter a lot of spaces to make it seem like someone was saying something they weren't.

Actually I was talking to a beta tester of the game and he said they knew about the bug back in development but they never fixed it.

[playerap]

ok goood because i engied this guy wit 4 apc full of engies along the side hehe it waz fun and he said ur cheating im gonna poat that and that he toook a screenshot it waz stupid but whatever to him

[Marcel71]

What's the link to emp's page?

[emprworm]

the link is right here in my signature  ::)

[Marcel71]

What's the pass??

http://www.songwave.com/dune/stealth_drones/exploit.htm

[Frodo_I]

LOL read the post on that page, the pass is in the post

And it's funny cause emp PUT the pass in the post just so people wouldn't try and click straight to the slide show to see the cheat without knowing how bad it is ::)

[ijw]

so showing people how to cheat is now a good thing? :'(

[emprworm]

If westwood would be accepting bugs in order to fix them, then it would have been a bad thing.   For example (not to get too off topic of dune), when I played Ultima Online for a couple years (a huge online game with tens of thousands of players), posting a bug would be very bad thing because Ultima Online programmers wanted to know about them first in order to fix them ASAP.  But because Westwood doesn't seem to care about this product anymore and have already stated they most likely wont be doing any patches, then posting it is GOOD because we need to be open about the game we have so everyone knows and is aware of existing bugs.  Even though WW probably wont patch it, the chances of them doing so are actually better by being open about the bug.  I made the decision, and I know I could be wrong about it- it wasn't easy, but I didnt like the idea of a select few players having an advantage over everyone else.  I wanted to level the playing field.  Perhaps it was the wrong decision but I felt ok about it.

[Timenn]

So you can find out how to prepare yourself against the cheat

[Gobalopper]

At this point in time I would say its a good idea. It's better everyone knows about then just a select few.

This way people will know to keep things like their refinery's away from the edge of the map and at least better prepare for it.

[ijw]

hmmm ok why u spend 15 screens showing exactley how to do it and 1 showing how to spot it then???

and surely if a select few knowing about it is bad what about the vast majority of players that don't use the forums at all that arn't going to know what hit them when it gets used on them?

why do u need to show people EXACTLEY how to do it to make them aware of it???  (i'll answer that one for you .....you don't)

and please take my name off ur site if it is still on there i don't support anything that helps people to cheat

[emprworm]

why do u need to show people EXACTLEY how to do it to make them aware of it  (i'll answer that one for you .....you don't)

well just showing a pic of a bunch of stealth drones munching up someone's base doesn't really help much.  People have already seen that.  Showing them how/why it works is making all things even.  If you don't like it, thats ok- I knew people wouldn't like it.    You dont have to support it or my site.  I will do as you have requested and remove your name.  I am still glad and thankful, though, for all your input.

[Frodo_I]

i want to point out that emp specifically showed how the first part of the loop is created, if you know there's a cheat and you see drones barelling toward the edge of the map you know whats going on, that is showing how to combat the bug, you can send troops to intercept any new drones going to the first waypoint, and if the air drones already started the loop you just leave the game and make them upset cause they have to spend another 30 minutes trying to find a good game.

If emp only said that they hover at the back of the base and didn't show the first part then you wouldn't know that you could saturate your perimeter with aa troops and combat the cheat would you??

ALso, Its a bug, since a bug can be exploited and the chances are that you won't be able to stop it in time then recognizing how the bug is done is just as important as knowing someone exploited the bug.

[ijw]

i see what ur saying frodo but i play mainley qm and bc if i just leave the game when they do it = minus points for me

and it would be very very easy to show people HOW to spot this being done to them without showing people HOW to do it i can't see how u can disagree with that

"well just showing a pic of a bunch of stealth drones munching up someone's base doesn't really help much.  People have already seen that.  Showing them how/why it works is making all things even"

well actually no people have not allready seen that just the VERY small % u know now if u have read ur site it just means u know how they have cheated u ur game is allready ruined and coz u know it and not used it all u have is the knowledge of knowing ur right and just and they r not

that dosn't make all things even coz the person u are playing is not fair and has looked at ur site and has learnt how to do it by ur screen by screen account of how to cheat

ur "tatic" is laid out to SHOW U HOW TO DO IT u should have put that effort into SHOWING HOW TO RECOGNISE IT BEING DONE (ie not just a bunch of pictures of stelth drones) which is completely differant thing and very very easy to do (again i can't for the life of me not understand why anyone can not understand this)

i feel sorry for the guys that never use the boards that will never see any of this when they meet an unscruplious person who does use any boards that have referance to ur site

and btw:

"If emp only said that they hover at the back of the base and didn't show the first part then you wouldn't know that you could saturate your perimeter with aa troops and combat the cheat would you?? "

so? all they do is set there waypoint further outside ur base or do i have to guard right down both sides of the map i'm on?

--point---->u shouldn't have to learn how to combat theese cheats i am gonna have to now if i don't want to take loss's off name hiders etc in qm when they pull it on me gee thanx a bunch in advance

oh wait  if u want to know how to use it properly ask surman0 he can makes his drones stelthed at any part of the map (in skirmish 1 week ago) then u can show people how to do that as well >:(

[emprworm]

i respect your opinion, ijw.  I knew some people would be upset.  I understand what you are saying, and I don't blame you.  I saw the pluses and minuses for my decision and it wasnt easy.  I am only asking you to see it from my point of view as well.

[ijw]

"I understand what you are saying, and I don't blame you"

wrong if u understood what i was saying u would have appoligised and taken it down/changed it

FACT u have shown people how to cheat (very well)

FACT there was NO need to

>:(

[Frodo_I]

I dunno, i'm torn on this.  I think the best thing is to show people about the cheat.  I didn't expect emp to post a "how to", but if i wante to show people "my way" then i should have done it, and i can't complain that emp couldn't read my mind on the matter

As for qm and bc, i knew that REGARDLESS of whether emp posted the bug or not people would start using it.  We threw out enough names in the post that anyone reading the board would know who to watch and talk to.  It would only be a matter of time

All i can say is that if i want to continue playing qm and i keep seeing everyone do this, then i'll just do it to them too (when they do it, not by default), then we won't have any caryalls, and we'll just play a ground war >:(

[emprworm]

ijw, understanding one's reasoning does not necessitate I duplicate the actions of that reasoning.  The correct word is called empathy.  I understand the cause of the "Save the Whales" movement.   But I also respect the decision of the US government to allow certain Native American (specifically the McCaw tribes) to hunt and kill 2 whales a year due to preserving their heritage.  Many people think that the McCaws should not be allowed to kill a whale, culture or not.  I understand their point of view.  I understand both positions.    And I agree with the decision of the US government.   You don't have to think I don't see your point of view, thats fine.  But just because I dont do something doesn't mean I cant understand your point of view.  That is what life is all about.  Tolerating and understanding the views of others, yet being different.

[ijw]

ur not the us government or the tribe its ur call not someone else's

it is ur site even frodo see's what i am saying now i think,... u don't need to show how it is done to show people how to spot it

and btw frodo i would not use it on them if they used it on me coz i know it is cheating i not gonna start cheating people now no matter what,.. result = me prob. lose (by that logic if people use any cheat on u, u can then use it as well -- thats wrong thats what happend on TS and thats why it is dead and the rank tourney has not been won fairly by anyone for about a year)

my point is by what u have done someone, even if it is just 1 person (which i doubt) will be cheated by someone who has learnt how to do it from ur site = ur wrong u could have warned people HOW TO SPOT IT easy without giving cheats the exact info on HOW TO DO IT ur right to highlight it and warn but wrong to start ur own little cheat training section

oh and btw im not upset i am as mad as hell i belive u have shown complete arrogance in what u have done like u say i have tryed to help u b4 i never will again >:(

[emprworm]

per request of many ppl in the community, I have pulled the bug from my site.  It is no longer listed.

[ijw]

gj ;D