Oh, the horrors of reality

[Dude_Doc]

But hey, if we were living in one of our fictious fantasies, then you'd be longing for this world instead.

[Dante]

Not likely. Can you give me any reason (besides soft toilet paper) how that world could ever be worse than this one?

[Avrillian_Sard01]

Is it just me, or is life just not worth living? Life Has no long-term gains, only short-term fleeting pleasures. There is nothing to strive for, nothing enjoyable about the prospect of living out the rest of my life in reality.

Reality must cope with taxes, insurance, VAT, inflation, deflation, polluting cars, credit cards, idiot TV culture, heavy metal, enviromental problems, financial problems, educational problems, military problems...

The rest of my life stretches before me and you know what? I hate the look of it. I looks like a long, boring, trudge. I don't want to get stressed at university, I don't want to conform with society, become a cog, get a job, work for years. I don't want to retire when I get too old or ill to work and I don't want to life out my life paying bills, pandering to a system I hate and otherwise coping with reality. Reality sucks. Big time. I hate it here.

Give me the option and I would happily disappear into an RA Salvatore fiction and live out the rest of my life around the Spine of the World Mountains or something. I hate it here and I see nothing long-term that could possibly get me to change my mind.

The only thing that's stopping me from committing suicide just out of curiosity is the problems that would be left behind. And of course I have no certainty that the alternative (death) would be any more enjoyable than this cesspit.

Ye gods I loathe reality. Any thoughts?

(Offtopic: Mind if I join in?)

Sorry if I'm a little late on this one, BUT...I'll be damned, Dust Scout! Ok...explanation first:

Remember my "Humans: Imperfect Beings" thread...since I still had that naiveness about emotions and my feelings of angst, etc. in relation to the world, I wasn't able to describe what I felt at that time. (And Nyarlothep said something about wanting to know what's wrong w/ me.) But now that Dust Scout has said something about this thing...damn!! That's the same thing I have been feeling most of my High School, and currently, my College life, and I think, this is also what's wrong w/ me. There are nights where I want to think that.

But before I can continue, may I ask Dust Scout a simple question? Where do you come from? There is something I want to say afterwards...w/c makes this question a part of what I want to say...

[Caid Ivik]

Exactly Apollyon. :) Glad people actually notice that...

Cars pollute. They kill plants, animals and people. Regularly. They're noisy, smelly, foul contraptions and their roads are even worse. Expensive, ugly lines of grey across the scenery.

Nuclear bombs and missiles took all the life out of warfare (and some cities). Instead of complicated campaigns, strategies, armies and sieges they just press the damn red button. There's no light side to cars or missiles other than perhaps employment.

It can't get any worse! ;D

You can take a car and go to a beautiful place, where you would not be able to go due to lack of time. That's the worst thing, you can't live just like an ethernal ahasveric walker. Without cars, people were bound to their poor villages or dirty towns, now I can get to some more hilly area, lock the doors and walk freely to be embraced by natural or cultural beauty of land.

And nuclear weapons won't be used. Everyone knows it is a senseless suicide.

[Scrinlord]

So sorry, but nuclear weapons WILL be used someday. Probably within our lifetime I believe.

And dust scout, I do see what you mean about life not being worth liveing. Believe me I know what you mean, but there are parts of life that can be worth living.

What we really need to do is break up the syestem of repetitivness.

We are born, told that we are not good enough on our own, so we are forced to go to a school that we hate for 12 years, and when you finally get out of public school, we are told that we cant get a good job unless we go to 5 MORE years of school, this time school that we have to pay an assload of money for. So you FINALLY get out of school, and you get put in a job that you hate, to raise money for living a lifestyle that you dont want to live. After a while, you get married and have kids, and you do the same damn thing to them.

That is what we need to stop. We need to find a way to make it worthwile to live life again. There are a few parts of my life that stop me from being suicidal. But only a few.

[Edric O]

I think the answer is obvious, Dust Scout: Since your life lacks purpose, you need to go and find one.

Many years ago, I used to feel the same way you do. I had no purpose in life, so I felt like I was living a meaningless existence. Then several things happened. First, I became a Christian. This gave me a general direction in life, but I still had no specific purpose. So I began searching for one, and first of all I came to the conclusion that no type of "personal enlightenment" philosophy was the kind of thing I was looking for. After all, I'll be dead in 70 years anyway, so what's the point of living life for my own sake? Most people seem to live their lives for "love", "happiness", "fun", or just "to live for the sake of living". But to me, all those things seem so... small, insignificant, pathetic. What are they in the great scheme of things? Nothing. Nothing at all. In the end, living for your own sake is the same as having no purpose in life.

And so I decided that I was NOT going to live for my own sake. Therefore, I was going to live for the sake of others. For the people. For Humanity.

...and that is what eventually lead me to communism, and to my current philosophy. It can be summed up in a quote:

"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile."

- Albert Einstein

[Caid Ivik]

I have an EVIL intention to react on that quote about who else said it too, but I can't do it ;D

[Dante]

I do believe it is a noble purpose ou have dedicated yourself to Edric, but I see even more. You say that these things are pointless, and I believe you. But so is working for others. There will never be any eternal reward (from my point of view, I know you think differently), there will be no justification or thanks. You will die just as the rest of us.

Scrinlord: That's just about it. I just haven't found what I can live for yet.

Fedayeen_Avril01: I'm from Scotland. It says so in my profile I think... why do you ask?

[TMA_1]

You sound exactly like solomon. An extremely wise man, and because of that and the situations he put himself into, he began to realize the futility of life. In reality our human existance if futile. We eat, sleep, deficate, procreate, and die. In the human realm we are animals, and serving for others is wonderful, but an excuse for those who wish to hold to at least something in life. why live for others when so many times those people will betray you? even if you have a few good friends who would never do that, then what? you will die and so will they, and it will all be but a memory to those who live after you. You cant live in your memories, so what good is it to do good if the memories you have wont be taken with you? Why help others when usually those others would take advantage of you? even if that isnt the case sometimes, what good will that do? People who say they live for others give themselves way too much credit. It is a noble idea, but in the end they die too and there isnt any feeling or rememberance after death to many people. Why help something that will be doomed? Even the human race is doomed, and will become extinct eventually. see, to help others is to take away from living life to the fullest. Selfish? yes, hedonistic? yes, but if we are just mere animals, then why not pleasure ourselves? it is the only good thing going for us in this world. People might find pleasure helping others, but that satisfaction is nowhere near as satisfying as say drugs or sex. And when we help others, almost always it is done for self centered purposes anyway.

I know I sound horrible, but it is all true. People try to combat this because they cant admit their lives are worthless. they dont want their lives to be worthless and that is understandable. They make their own subjective worth, but that doesnt mean anything to anybody else, and when you die what does it get you?

This is where the spiritual comes into play. It is up to you to find true happiness. I suggest though finding it in some sort of spiritual living. It isnt a pipe dream either, because it is just an assumption like so many assumptions people make in their lives. It gives hope and purpose because we truly have something even greater than ourselves that will actually give us eternal life. Most religions dont believe in a hell so it isnt anything to worry about. Temporal existance is probably the hardest thing somebody has to cope with. I am not trying to convert you, that is why I am not labeling my religion. It is up to you if you want to find spiritual living or not, I just suggest it as a person who cares. You might think it odd or untrue, but I care for people I can empathize with. No sympathy, no aloofness, but empathy. I can kinda understand how it feels, though I am not in your shoes, I like to think I do have a little understanding. If you understand somebody, you will then grow to see the good within them.

[Edric O]

Both of you (TMA and Dust Scout) don't seem to understand that I don't care about rewards. Having a purpose in life is reward enough. Yes, of course that I will die. And so will you, and so will everyone else who reads this. But Humanity will live on. And if we are wise enough, Humanity will exist for as long as the universe exists, or perhaps even longer (if you believe that our souls are immortal, then Humanity will exist for all eternity).

When our names will be long forgotten, our actions will still echo through time. Every cause has an effect. By merely existing, you are influencing the future in some way. Usually, this influence is small. But if you dedicate your life to it, your impact on the future can be far greater. The combined effects of billions of lives have taken Humanity to where it is now. Some lives left immense traces, others left only tiny ones. I want my life to leave a trace as large as possible, and I want it to have a positive impact on Humanity.

[Wolf]

(This will be my first FED2K post. Pleased to meet you all!)

There isn't much I can say without seeming cliche', or like a preachy know-it-all trying to win converts. It's really hard, you know, trying to give advice. You never know how your words will be received, and thus you try to write them carefully. Having only recently joined, I can't say I know any of you, and I've missed out on quite a few discussions in the past, most likely. I'm sorry. I will try my best, nonetheless.

Scout, you want what every human being who has ever lived has wanted. You want, deeply inside of you, to become something more than existence. You cite that society, idiot TV culture, idiot politicians, and idiot problems in this world are what makes life not worth living. Perhaps this is so, but you think this only because those things represent the finite existence that this world holds for you. You want to be special, you want to be one of those great human beings who transcends this life. Perhaps not in a religious sense, but transcendance can be accomplished in many ways. You could become a great hero, have monuments erected in your name. You could become a great writer, and have great works that last forever. It does not matter exactly what is *wanted*, it only matters that you *want*.

How do I know that you want? You said it yourself, you want to be free of a demanding existence that you didn't choose to have. Perhaps we as a society create depressed youth as a nasty byproduct of what our society has become. We are the richest, we are not exposed to demanding work or harsh words, or real slavery. In the UK, the US, France, Germany, the "First-World" (now there is a name fitting of the arrogant! Regardless of whether the Bible is right or wrong, the first-shall-be-last springs to mind). Our societies teach that we, THE PEOPLE, have the right to CHOOSE how to live our lives. Democracy. Fairness. Equality.

Sounds nice. It is nice. But we humans do not CHOOSE to be born to this world. We did not choose life. Scout, you sound as if you would rather have had the chance to have chosen NOT to be born. I know that is not so. For in you is what Nietasche and Schopenhauer (the nihilists, my great friends) called "the will to greatness". You want to be GREAT, you want to be MORE, you want to be BEYOND. You hate our depraved society because in your mind you have created an image of yourself that is GREATER than society. You do not believe in helping others? You do not think that will make you happy? I agree with you, you will not achieve happiness by living for others. Why? Because that is how you MADE yourself.

Life is a unique thing. We can think and speak and philosophize... look at what I can do here with these words, what animal ever dreamed of something like this? Someone once said that we humans were different not because we could think or talk, but because we could imagine. We could imagine a life far beyond and better what we lived. While the animal could only envision this life, and how to survive in it.

Scout, your kind are a dying breed. Not because you are not worth anything or because your are inferior. Rather, you are like delicate angels who have assembeled in their minds a vision of themselves that is so delicate that it cannot exist in this world. You have MADE yourself something NOT what society intended for you to be. (Even if you are a byproduct). You are YOURSELF, and maybe this is close to the "be thankful that you are alive" argument, but it takes it one step further.

You are you. If you desire greatness, power, happiness, beauty, it does not matter. For you have but one ultimate power in this universe (much like the power of Muad'diB) you hold a power to mold your inner self, your "being" into whatever you wish it to be. Is your depression forced upon you, Scout? Or do you feel it willingly? Perhaps you should feel it joyously! Look, you can feel something at all. No matter your infirmities, blindness, injury, death, pain, poverty, or any other horrors of existence, you are alive and one.

Even if life is horror to you, I will not try to tell you differently. All I can tell you is that as long as your mind, that which is *you* in the purest sense, is not courrupted by that which you hate, and as long as it is free to imagine new possibilites and wonders, you have a glimmer of hope. God exists, even if he exists only in conception. The conception of that which we imagine is enough to keep people alive. You may not escape that which you hate, but as long as you live, as long as you think freely, of, in, and for your own will, then you have hope. I cannot tell you exactly what to do, or exactly why this is so. Reasons are different for everyone.

Your mind is a random factor, take hope in that if you must. You never know exactly what your next thought will be. That, in the most basic sense is entertaining! All I can say regarding how to make life not suck is that you must redefine life. You must find something in life that makes it worthwhile. For Edric, it is being for others. I do not know how, or why, but it works for him. No one knows, exactly. No one knows how the human mind works, either. We can explain it in terms of neurons, blood vessels, sparks, and sesnors, but can we explain how we are able to do.... this? Clearly, the human mind is something that is more than the sum of its parts.

As long as your world is only the sum of its parts, you cannot be happy. For your mind, by nature, demands otherwise.

[TMA_1]

When our names will be long forgotten, our actions will still echo through time. Every cause has an effect. By merely existing, you are influencing the future in some way. Usually, this influence is small. But if you dedicate your life to it, your impact on the future can be far greater. The combined effects of billions of lives have taken Humanity to where it is now. Some lives left immense traces, others left only tiny ones. I want my life to leave a trace as large as possible, and I want it to have a positive impact on Humanity.

sounds nice edric, but once you die, who cares what people think? How can you enjoy that reward of helping people long after you are dead? Why do you even make it a reward to help people, when gifts are made for grace, to give without anything in return at all. it is okay to feel good about it, but it is another thing to fulfill yourself by it. you want to make an impact on the world. Want to be a great influence. That is egotistical. Just because you have good intentions, you think you are int he right. Well it is all self centered, and I dont think you see that.

I am supprised you havent read ecclesiasties.

if you have then you havent grasped this stuff at all.

what good is it to make money, when you will lose it and it will all go away with your heirs. What good is it to do good when doing good is a matter of personal gratification? You like to do good to others because like all of us, you have been brainwashed with culture. you can put it any way you want, but that is what it is. Giving to others is silly because it takes away from pleasure you could have. It is a denial to say that it truly is a joy to help others. through time and cultural influence, you could feel a certain sort of goodness about it, but it doesnt at all top the things that really are pleasurable. when I was out of it and didnt care, I knew that morphine or cocaine was much more enjoyable than anything somebody could give me. You may think that is horrible, but if you have actually gone through this and understood what it is like to see the reality of the universe as futile, then it would make sense.

of course I dont think that way anymore, because of spiritual purposes. It gives me hope, because unlike many who wish to sound more mature and more intellectual, I want a reward. I want to go to heaven, I want to be with God and enjoy eternal life in perfection.

helping people? well I do it because I do like helping, but the driving force behind it is because I want to please God. Only suckers could try to find some sort of purpose in this life through good works. In the end if you dont believe in a spiritaul realm and this is all temporal, then everything is subjective. Everything is based on what each individual believes. It is called anarchy, and is nihilistic to the bone. You want to know something though? though many wont admit it, everybody has a God shaped vacuum. it needs to be filled, some find it more dignifying to fill it with silliness.

[Wolf]

This is true Beyond, and I agree with you fully. Often have I wondered at how vast everything is and how small that I am. Yet, no matter how small I am, I have power. I have the power over myself, and that power is great indeed.

Beyond, no matter all that has been shown to me for and against God, I have often wondered how meaningless it all is. Saying there is no God has always seemed so arrogant to me. People who have said it often said it to be different, or to seem intellectual. Saying there is no God is the same as saying as God doesn't matter to you, for you are above him. Who do we know for SURE is in hell? Satan. Why is he there? Because he said that he would be the one to decide what is right and wrong, he became SELF-RIGHTEOUS. Self-righteousness is the only mortal sin.

Little things have always made me wonder. Like how the Sun and the Moon both septet exactly 1 degree EACH of the Earth's sky. Think about that. Two circles. One degree each. One blue-white for night, and the other orange-red for day. That's an accident? Out of the trillions upon trillions of species that has ever existed on Earth, only ONE, ONE! has ever evolved sentience?

Seems too convienent to be an accident.

But, I digress. Scout, take comfort in the power over yourself. Strive to be better than what you hate, but DO NOT become self-righteous. That is the path to blind disregard for all except only yourself, and will lead you to your own unhappiness, because you will begin denying things that may be true solely to satisfy your own standards for what makes you powerful. Be true to yourself, explore who, what you are, and if that depresses you, explore what you could be, and take joy in the fact that you CAN aspire to be more than you. Better yourself. In all ways. And when you have done this, you will look back on your old self, you will look at how you have changed, how you have grown, and you will be proud.

[Edric O]

sounds nice edric, but once you die, who cares what people think? How can you enjoy that reward of helping people long after you are dead? Why do you even make it a reward to help people, when gifts are made for grace, to give without anything in return at all. it is okay to feel good about it, but it is another thing to fulfill yourself by it. you want to make an impact on the world. Want to be a great influence. That is egotistical. Just because you have good intentions, you think you are int he right. Well it is all self centered, and I dont think you see that.

Again, you are far too concerned about the idea of "getting a reward". I don't live my life to get a reward out of it. In the end, rewards are irrelevant. They only give you a temporary moment of pleasure or happiness, which will soon be nothing more than a memory, and eventually be completely forgotten. I care about eternal things, or at least things which will last a very long time. Humanity is one of them. The welfare of Humanity is a much more permanent thing than a short moment of personal happiness.

And the idea that people do everything (even altruistic acts) for selfish reasons is one of the most ridiculous ideas I ever heard, because it gives a definition of "selfishness" which encompasses all possible human actions. If being unselfish is impossible according to your definition, then the term "selfish" itself carries no value.

[TMA_1]

I am afraid that the animal part of the human race is simply a tissue structure that wishes to live, procreate, and gratify itself. The seperation from animals and us is the fact that we have a soul and spirit. (dont argue with me on the matters of the two not being two, because it would take awhile to explain.) I totally agree with you that spiritual living is important, and why you are arguing with me is silly, because in the end I said that the only way a person can find real fulfillment is through spiritual practices. It is true fulfillment because it has no end, while temporal fulfillment is futile.

Doing good for others is as worthless as doing nothing if it is put in the wrong intentions. If there is no spiritual or meta physical quest to it, then you are just doing good for the sake of your own subjective thinking. What good is doing good if there is no paramount purpose for it outside the human race? it is anarchy.

[Avrillian_Sard01]

Well, I said something about asking what country are you from Dust Scout, and what point it has on what I'm going to say. I'm here, and so, here it is:

Be glad that you live in a less f***ed-up country than mine. The things happening at my place kinda influenced and made me think about that thought on life not worth living, your thoughts on that Dust Scout, though in my case its more like, "Life seems not to be worth living in this kind of place."

Over here I hear incidents of corrupt politicians and even military officials (sometimes tagged as the source of organized crime, as some officials/pollies have private armies), rampant poverty w/c is of course responsible for the rampant street crimes happening in our place, bearing the brunt of other people's BS... We are currently suffering because of the mistakes of a few old men. We also as a species, live in a more stressful society than it was some years or a century ago. Damn, I can go on and on about this...but I'll cut this one short...

As long as your world is only the sum of its parts, you cannot be happy. For your mind, by nature, demands otherwise.

Hmm...I guess we want to one day live in a world w/o bounds... (Erm, heavy Matrix influence...well, at least I learn something new.) ;)

And Mr. Wolfwiz...well, hope that idea of yours will make people like me and Dust Scout a little more right as rain...

I want to share some quotes from me and a person from over here:

"We live in a dark and cruel world where it seems that people are getting colder and colder to one another and its an effort in futility to help others and do them good." -Sherwin Cruz, Ex-hobo.

Sherwin was formerly a rich dude who ran away from his home. He later became a hobo, or what we call here as "grease-person" because of the fact that he became dirty w/ grime.(Also, he even tried drugs... :() Now, a number of times, he was recovered and rehabilitated by NGO's, but always escaped because he felt like he didn't belong. But, fate, as much as I do not wish to believe it, did give Sherwin a place to belong, and to help others who went down the path of misguided street children and "grease-people". Since he was a rich person before, he was proficient w/ the PC, and that became a major asset in giving Sherwin a purpose in life and giving a feeling of belonging there.

And from my own archives (of a little notebook...)

A cold, cruel and uncaring society will only create more misanthropes - future Hitlers and Bin Ladens. Unfortunately, such is today's society.

I'm not implying that everyone, thanks to society will become the next Hitler or Bin Laden, but if there will be people who are like me or Dust Scout who become suddenly misguided and walk that path, they may risk becoming the next of them...who are inspired by the hatred for people who made their lives miserable.

Whew!